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What is Kaeps worth....?

What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by Niners99:



Originally posted by crake49:
I think there is a perception thing going on when you compare the two. They're both good young QB's and when you look at the numbers, it's not at all clear who is the better of the two, but the popular perception just leads people to assume Luck is better. And the argument that Luck took over a bad team is simply bogus on its face. He took over the same team that Manning had taken to the playoffs. The reason it had a bad record the year before was catastrophic injuries including the one piece that that team absolutely had to have to function - a QB. Once Luck got up and running, and he is a good QB, that team was simply re-booting and running again.

Just to highlight your point: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-andrew-luck-most-untradeable-120000115--nfl.html
Got this from the "Gonzo calls Matty Ice Exellent But Not Elite" thread at atlantsfalcons.com--

Matt Ryan's biggest problem and maybe even Peyton Manning has a similar problem, is that they have fear when the going gets tough. When the spot light is on and its time to be at your toughest, they aren't. It's like Matt Ryan is more tough and confident for a game vs the Detriot Lions than he is for a game vs the 49ers in the playoffs. He needs to find that confidence that I hate to say that Russell Wilson and Kapernick have in themselves. Best of luck Matt Ryan.

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3997806-gonzo-calls-matty-ice-excellent-but-not-elite/page__st__20
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Niners99:





What I like about this is that it shows only Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers were ahead of Kap in both years. Everybody else is a leaf in the wind.
It's gonna be so hard to determine Kaepernick's contract.

On one hand, the 49ers are one of the most talented teams in football. Quite honestly, Kaepernick didn't have to do too much this year with how good our defense and running game was in the middle of the season. He slumped pretty badly there, yet we were still able to win. And this is a team that was successful with another QB in Alex Smith... Granted, Alex is a pretty good QB in his own right, but Kaepernick doesn't have the argument that, say, a Peyton Manning has... When Peyton was injured, the Colts tanked without him. The 49ers could win with a lot of games with any QB.

But on the other hand, Kaepernick had a very good playoff performance. And given what the Seahawks did to one of the greatest offenses in NFL history, what Kaepernick was able to do against them was great. We lived (and died) by Kaep's performance in that game.

It's hard. If I could, I'd pay him as the #10 QB, with incentives to put him in the top 5. But contracts don't work like that. It's about that guaranteed money. I honestly think, that in a year or two, Kaepernick will eventually be a top 5 QB. Once he becomes more effective at going through his progressions, he'll be an amazing QB that can destroy teams with his arms and legs. The last true dual-threat QB, in my opinion, who was equally effective at both was Steve Young. And Kaepernick has the potential to be better because, as gifted as Steve Young was, Kaepernick is a superior athlete.

I think the 49ers will figure something out. They know what Kaepernick will turn into. They see him everyday. They know how high or low his ceiling is. If they think he can be a top 5 QB, then pay the man. If they don't think so, then the 49ers should stand firm, be prepared to possibly lose him, yet continue building a very good team across the board.
Originally posted by Wubbie:
It's gonna be so hard to determine Kaepernick's contract.

On one hand, the 49ers are one of the most talented teams in football. Quite honestly, Kaepernick didn't have to do too much this year with how good our defense and running game was in the middle of the season. He slumped pretty badly there, yet we were still able to win. And this is a team that was successful with another QB in Alex Smith... Granted, Alex is a pretty good QB in his own right, but Kaepernick doesn't have the argument that, say, a Peyton Manning has... When Peyton was injured, the Colts tanked without him. The 49ers could win with a lot of games with any QB.

But on the other hand, Kaepernick had a very good playoff performance. And given what the Seahawks did to one of the greatest offenses in NFL history, what Kaepernick was able to do against them was great. We lived (and died) by Kaep's performance in that game.

It's hard. If I could, I'd pay him as the #10 QB, with incentives to put him in the top 5. But contracts don't work like that. It's about that guaranteed money. I honestly think, that in a year or two, Kaepernick will eventually be a top 5 QB. Once he becomes more effective at going through his progressions, he'll be an amazing QB that can destroy teams with his arms and legs. The last true dual-threat QB, in my opinion, who was equally effective at both was Steve Young. And Kaepernick has the potential to be better because, as gifted as Steve Young was, Kaepernick is a superior athlete.

I think the 49ers will figure something out. They know what Kaepernick will turn into. They see him everyday. They know how high or low his ceiling is. If they think he can be a top 5 QB, then pay the man. If they don't think so, then the 49ers should stand firm, be prepared to possibly lose him, yet continue building a very good team across the board.

I don't think it's a matter of if he gets paid, it's the matter of when and how much is what is likely being debated.
Baalke will likely play hardball on this one as it will determine so much of who the team will be able to keep thereafter. The example of Baltimore after the Flacco contract should make it apparent that the team will lose a lot of talent after the Kaepernick resigning. After the Super Bowl win and the Flacco contract the Ravens jettisoned most of their elderly statesmen...either by retirement, trades or cuts. The niners team leaders are not as old as the Raven leaders were so it may be more difficult for Baalke. Willis is not going to retire and drop a huge cap number, for instance. If you look at a comparison:

Reed (35)--Whitner (28)
Lewis (38)--Willis (29)
Suggs (31)--A Smith (24) Smith is younger but Suggs is 31...not ancient, which is why Balt kept him.
Rice (27)--Gore (30) is Gore gone? Probably, unless he reworks his contract...again.

Rice is the one key Raven skill player younger than the 49er counterpart. So if the niners shed some older players to help the cap who will they be? Whitner, Goodwin and Rogers are the most logical candidates but none of them are ancient and none of them are team leaders in the sense of long term locker room stability. Sadly, Both Goodwin and Whitner have key roles in setting up the OLine and the DBs. There may be a short term void if one or both leave.

Baalke and Harbaugh have to take these things into account and balance the team...hope Kaepernick and his agent are reasonable!
  • buck
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Baalke will likely play hardball on this one as it will determine so much of who the team will be able to keep thereafter. The example of Baltimore after the Flacco contract should make it apparent that the team will lose a lot of talent after the Kaepernick resigning. After the Super Bowl win and the Flacco contract the Ravens jettisoned most of their elderly statesmen...either by retirement, trades or cuts. The niners team leaders are not as old as the Raven leaders were so it may be more difficult for Baalke. Willis is not going to retire and drop a huge cap number, for instance. If you look at a comparison:

Reed (35)--Whitner (28)
Lewis (38)--Willis (29)
Suggs (31)--A Smith (24) Smith is younger but Suggs is 31...not ancient, which is why Balt kept him.
Rice (27)--Gore (30) is Gore gone? Probably, unless he reworks his contract...again.

Rice is the one key Raven skill player younger than the 49er counterpart. So if the niners shed some older players to help the cap who will they be? Whitner, Goodwin and Rogers are the most logical candidates but none of them are ancient and none of them are team leaders in the sense of long term locker room stability. Sadly, Both Goodwin and Whitner have key roles in setting up the OLine and the DBs. There may be a short term void if one or both leave.

Baalke and Harbaugh have to take these things into account and balance the team...hope Kaepernick and his agent are reasonable!

I think Trent Baalke and Paraag Marathe will do a good job at dealing with cap implications of the contracts.

They seem to have done an excellent job up to now, although I will admit that my understanding of the cap is limited--very limited.
Originally posted by Wubbie:
The last true dual-threat QB, in my opinion, who was equally effective at both was Steve Young. And Kaepernick has the potential to be better because, as gifted as Steve Young was, Kaepernick is a superior athlete.

I don't disagree however the rest of the NFL are superior athletes to the NFL Steve was playing in. They have all gotten bigger, stronger, and faster. Across the board.
Unless Kaepernick was just flat-out BS-ing when he talked about his upcoming contract negotiations, I don't think the Niners will even have to play hardball with him. We'll see.
Long as we get him signed before the season starts, I truly feel like if we do things right in the offseason, we're primed to be the last team standing at the end.
I know Kap is a humble guy but who knows what hes gonna demand when we win. Yes he's good, but until he develops that killer instinct to score at will and not rely on the defense to cover him. Lack of effiency on offense will hold us back. We need TDs not FGs. If our D stays the same or improves and then we start putting up 7s and not 3s, we are by far the best.
4yr contract with a 5th yr option and backload it. Cap Space will open up when Gore, Boldin and J. Smith retire. I
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Got this from the "Gonzo calls Matty Ice Exellent But Not Elite" thread at atlantsfalcons.com--

Matt Ryan's biggest problem and maybe even Peyton Manning has a similar problem, is that they have fear when the going gets tough. When the spot light is on and its time to be at your toughest, they aren't. It's like Matt Ryan is more tough and confident for a game vs the Detriot Lions than he is for a game vs the 49ers in the playoffs. He needs to find that confidence that I hate to say that Russell Wilson and Kapernick have in themselves. Best of luck Matt Ryan.

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3997806-gonzo-calls-matty-ice-excellent-but-not-elite/page__st__20

So basically Gonzalez is telling us that he'll comeback for either the Seahawks or us
Originally posted by crake49:
Unless Kaepernick was just flat-out BS-ing when he talked about his upcoming contract negotiations, I don't think the Niners will even have to play hardball with him. We'll see.

Kap doesn't like distractions. He wants to hit the field as quickly as possible. Remember him as a rookie? I know the CBA kind of limited things but he told his agent to hurry up so he could hit the field. Kap wants his dough but he ain't looking to be the highest paid guy. I expect us to come to terms quickly enough so that there is not much of any distraction to Kap and his laser focus on football and getting better. He knows he has to beat the SEA defense twice a year and I have faith that he will do everything he reasonably do to help this team win
Originally posted by Wubbie:
When Peyton was injured, the Colts tanked without him. The 49ers could win with a lot of games with any QB.



How do you know this?

The Colts tanked because they went from 10+ year veteran "Hall-of-Fame" quarterback to "not starter quality" quarterback.

Alex Smith (7 year veteran at the time) was at least starter quality, wouldn't you say? And Kap is certainly not a 10 year vet. So the drop off (if you believe there was one) was no where near as dramatic.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
How do you know this?

The Colts tanked because they went from 10+ year veteran "Hall-of-Fame" quarterback to "not starter quality" quarterback.

Alex Smith (7 year veteran at the time) was at least starter quality, wouldn't you say? And Kap is certainly not a 10 year vet. So the drop off (if you believe there was one) was no where near as dramatic.

  1. Because in the Bill Walsh system we run the QB is not as important as he is in other systems.
  2. The 49ers run the ball as much as any other team and throw the ball near the bottom of the league when it comes to attempts.
  3. They also have a top 1-3 defense (depending on who you ask).

An average to slightly above average QB that can play within the system would result in a lot of games won on this team. Did you not watch this season? There was a period of about 7 games where Kaep was playing well BELOW average and the team was on a roll.

I mean we beat Houston THIRTY FOUR TO THREE and he only completed 6 passes for 113 yards and had a 40% completion percentage (and he only carried the ball once for 14 yards that game so that wasn't it either). That is how good this TEAM is.

If you look at it the 49ers QB only completed 20 passes in 2 of 16 games but they won 12 of them. He completed 15 passes or less in 10 games this season and we won 7 of them.

That is how I know...

A s**tty QB is not going to get it done but this team can win a lot of games because of its running game and D with just average QB play. As evidenced by the majority of this season.
[ Edited by Gavintech on Feb 8, 2014 at 12:50 PM ]