What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by BrianGO:
We post the stats because its the only non-subject point of reference. What you are posting is subjective, and I can do the same thing.

Some people just don't get the difference between facts and feelings or between objective and subjective arguments.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by Forty_Niners:
- Luck is already borderline Top 10 in this league

- Kaepernick will never ever sniff the Top 5

Luck threw 7 interceptions in his last two playoff games and he didn't play a defense even close to the ones Kaepernick played. What are you even talking about? Luck had 154 more passing attempts than Kaepernick did this last season and only 2 more TD's than Kaepernick. And Kaepernick got a full yard more per attempt than Luck. No argument that Luck is good. But stop pretending there's a huge gap between the two. One could easily make the case on the numbers that Kaepernick is playing better than Luck. Kaepernick had a 5% TD percentage and Luck had a 4% TD percentage. Kaepernick averaged 13.2 yards per catch compared to Luck's 11.1. And nobody has to spend a defensive player to spy Luck. He's a great athlete, but he really isn't in Kaepernick's level as a threat to gouge you when the pocket breaks down.

Exactly. My question throughout this thread is this: Whatever you think the Colts should give Luck or the Lions Stafford, is what you should think the 49ers should give to Colin. If you believe the 49ers should trade Colins, then you must believe the Colts should trade Luck.

To think otherwise, exposes you as the moron that you probably are.

It's nice to have Seattle fans come in to unite this board...for a change! LOL! Some serious trolling going on!

I think there is a perception thing going on when you compare the two. They're both good young QB's and when you look at the numbers, it's not at all clear who is the better of the two, but the popular perception just leads people to assume Luck is better. And the argument that Luck took over a bad team is simply bogus on its face. He took over the same team that Manning had taken to the playoffs. The reason it had a bad record the year before was catastrophic injuries including the one piece that that team absolutely had to have to function - a QB. Once Luck got up and running, and he is a good QB, that team was simply re-booting and running again.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It's nice to have Seattle fans come in to unite this board...for a change! LOL! Some serious trolling going on!

Great point! They deserve our thanks.

Originally posted by crake49:
I think there is a perception thing going on when you compare the two. They're both good young QB's and when you look at the numbers, it's not at all clear who is the better of the two, but the popular perception just leads people to assume Luck is better. And the argument that Luck took over a bad team is simply bogus on its face. He took over the same team that Manning had taken to the playoffs. The reason it had a bad record the year before was catastrophic injuries including the one piece that that team absolutely had to have to function - a QB. Once Luck got up and running, and he is a good QB, that team was simply re-booting and running again.

Great post. When you hear analyst speak of Luck, they just ASSUME he is the next greatest QB of all time. No one ever stops and think that maybe Luck won't win a SB...everyone just assumes that he and the Colts are destined to win the next 5 SB.

But when people stop and look at the stats and the facts, they are blown away that Colin is actually a better passer in the NFL than Luck. So is Newton, and Wilson.

This same thing happens to Jay Cutler. Could you imagine the perception of Kaepernick would be if he had the career of a Jay Culter? You think any fanbase would stand for Kaepernick making $100+ million? The same perception exists with Stafford, Bradford, and Ryan. But no seems to care that these QBs make over $100+ million. If they fail, it is because their teammates let them down. Nothing to do with their short comings.

screw the haters. He is a good QB. I love his style of play. Sure he has a lot left to learn. But i hate how people are ready to kick him to the curb already.

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
screw the haters. He is a good QB. I love his style of play. Sure he has a lot left to learn. But i hate how people are ready to kick him to the curb already.

You tell'em coach.

I'm just hoping Kaepernick was dead serious about that perspective on getting paid that he expressed. If he was and if it turns out that he and his agents work with the Niners that way, it's going to set a new standard for being a leader and a team player for quarterbacks. In a way, it's going to make players like Cutler, Flacco and Romo look short sighted. The better the team is, the better the chance he'll get the team to a championship. Because really, if a guy ends his career as a multi-millionaire set up for life anyway and instead of an extra $7 or 8 mil, he's got a Super Bowl ring, who wins? They're both filthy rich and the guy with the extra money would give it up to have that ring 9 times out of 10.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by crake49:
I think there is a perception thing going on when you compare the two. They're both good young QB's and when you look at the numbers, it's not at all clear who is the better of the two, but the popular perception just leads people to assume Luck is better. And the argument that Luck took over a bad team is simply bogus on its face. He took over the same team that Manning had taken to the playoffs. The reason it had a bad record the year before was catastrophic injuries including the one piece that that team absolutely had to have to function - a QB. Once Luck got up and running, and he is a good QB, that team was simply re-booting and running again.

Just to highlight your point: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-andrew-luck-most-untradeable-120000115--nfl.html

Got this from the "Gonzo calls Matty Ice Exellent But Not Elite" thread at atlantsfalcons.com--

Matt Ryan's biggest problem and maybe even Peyton Manning has a similar problem, is that they have fear when the going gets tough. When the spot light is on and its time to be at your toughest, they aren't. It's like Matt Ryan is more tough and confident for a game vs the Detriot Lions than he is for a game vs the 49ers in the playoffs. He needs to find that confidence that I hate to say that Russell Wilson and Kapernick have in themselves. Best of luck Matt Ryan.

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3997806-gonzo-calls-matty-ice-excellent-but-not-elite/page__st__20

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Niners99:

What I like about this is that it shows only Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers were ahead of Kap in both years. Everybody else is a leaf in the wind.

It's gonna be so hard to determine Kaepernick's contract.

On one hand, the 49ers are one of the most talented teams in football. Quite honestly, Kaepernick didn't have to do too much this year with how good our defense and running game was in the middle of the season. He slumped pretty badly there, yet we were still able to win. And this is a team that was successful with another QB in Alex Smith... Granted, Alex is a pretty good QB in his own right, but Kaepernick doesn't have the argument that, say, a Peyton Manning has... When Peyton was injured, the Colts tanked without him. The 49ers could win with a lot of games with any QB.

But on the other hand, Kaepernick had a very good playoff performance. And given what the Seahawks did to one of the greatest offenses in NFL history, what Kaepernick was able to do against them was great. We lived (and died) by Kaep's performance in that game.

It's hard. If I could, I'd pay him as the #10 QB, with incentives to put him in the top 5. But contracts don't work like that. It's about that guaranteed money. I honestly think, that in a year or two, Kaepernick will eventually be a top 5 QB. Once he becomes more effective at going through his progressions, he'll be an amazing QB that can destroy teams with his arms and legs. The last true dual-threat QB, in my opinion, who was equally effective at both was Steve Young. And Kaepernick has the potential to be better because, as gifted as Steve Young was, Kaepernick is a superior athlete.

I think the 49ers will figure something out. They know what Kaepernick will turn into. They see him everyday. They know how high or low his ceiling is. If they think he can be a top 5 QB, then pay the man. If they don't think so, then the 49ers should stand firm, be prepared to possibly lose him, yet continue building a very good team across the board.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
It's gonna be so hard to determine Kaepernick's contract.

On one hand, the 49ers are one of the most talented teams in football. Quite honestly, Kaepernick didn't have to do too much this year with how good our defense and running game was in the middle of the season. He slumped pretty badly there, yet we were still able to win. And this is a team that was successful with another QB in Alex Smith... Granted, Alex is a pretty good QB in his own right, but Kaepernick doesn't have the argument that, say, a Peyton Manning has... When Peyton was injured, the Colts tanked without him. The 49ers could win with a lot of games with any QB.

But on the other hand, Kaepernick had a very good playoff performance. And given what the Seahawks did to one of the greatest offenses in NFL history, what Kaepernick was able to do against them was great. We lived (and died) by Kaep's performance in that game.

It's hard. If I could, I'd pay him as the #10 QB, with incentives to put him in the top 5. But contracts don't work like that. It's about that guaranteed money. I honestly think, that in a year or two, Kaepernick will eventually be a top 5 QB. Once he becomes more effective at going through his progressions, he'll be an amazing QB that can destroy teams with his arms and legs. The last true dual-threat QB, in my opinion, who was equally effective at both was Steve Young. And Kaepernick has the potential to be better because, as gifted as Steve Young was, Kaepernick is a superior athlete.

I think the 49ers will figure something out. They know what Kaepernick will turn into. They see him everyday. They know how high or low his ceiling is. If they think he can be a top 5 QB, then pay the man. If they don't think so, then the 49ers should stand firm, be prepared to possibly lose him, yet continue building a very good team across the board.

I don't think it's a matter of if he gets paid, it's the matter of when and how much is what is likely being debated.