What is Kaeps worth....?

He should be paid compensatory to the others. $80 Million or less.. Thats fair

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by crake49:
Here you go, doubters. I thought Kaepernick seemed like the kind of player who was "all-ball" and would take the big picture when it came to contract time and it looks like I was right about him:

"I think it's a balance. You want to be paid fairly for what you feel like you're doing in comparison to your peers," Kaepernick said. "But at the same time, you have to realize, if we want to get Anquan Boldin back, if we want Donte Whitner to come back, we're going to have to make moves to get them back. And there has to be room for everyone. And that's something I'm going to let my agent and the organization try to figure out. But hopefully, it's a position where we can assemble the best team we need."

This is what I am talking about in the beginning. Kap isn't selfish. He will get his money in due time. Other needs are more important, we need to get Boldin back, and maybe Whitner. Plus others who need extensions soon, Vernon, Willis, Boone, Aldon, Crabs, Iupati is likely gone. Kap is important, not saying he isn't, but we have a lot of guys to retain, so I don't see a $20M a year contract for Kap happening anytime soon.

That sounds all very nice, but we'll see exactly what kind of "team discount" actually happens.

Anquan Boldin and Donte Whitner together make over 10,000,000 dollars a year. That's ten MILLION dollars a year. Is Kap going to say goodbye to TEN MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, just so the team can keep those extra weapons?

"He doesn't have to give up that much...", you say? So he just says goodbye to, let's say four million a year. OK great, but that doesn't pay for EITHER Anquan Boldin or Donte Whitner.

"But Tom Brady cares about winning, Kap should follow his example." Huh? Tom Brady has already made tens of millions of dollars in his career, and his wife makes even more than him. Not only that, but Brady's contract is guaranteed for INJURY.
Kap is a young kid who has NOTHING GUARANTEED to him. He could get injured and then it's all over for him. It would be an absolutely UNPRECEDENTED move of Kap to throw ten million dollars a year into the garbage for "rah, rah, rah, team". It has never happened before, and once Kap sits down with his agent, all the nice TALK about how "everybody needs to get paid", will begin to look very, very, VERY expensive.

Kap has just made a huge mistake. Because of these comments, now fans expectations for the contract are going to be pure fantasy. If the contract is anything over 10 million, fans will turn on him, call him a "liar", a "cheat", etc. This is going to get ugly.

Kap, that was a very dumb thing for you to say.

Why are you assuming that Boldin and Whitner together make over $10 mil? Boldin refused to take a pay cut on a contract he had already worked out with the Ravens. He's also a lot older than he was when he worked that contract out. I don't expect him to demand anything close to that $6 mil a year as a 33 year old. Whitner is smart enough to see the writing on the wall - they let Goldson go last season and got a better Safety than Goldson in the draft. Reid has better coverage skills, was a solid tackler and had a grand total of zero flags thrown against him all season. Goldson was the most flagged safety in the league and even had to sit out a game with a suspension over unnecessary roughness penalties. So, the Niners can do the same thing this year. They can easily get the highest rated SS in the second round and Whitner is smart enough to know that.

Originally posted by KungFuJoe:
I wonder if Kap realizes his current limitations as a QB. I'm still troubled by his lack of production when Crabtree was out. IMO, top QBs are very good at spreading the ball around. I just don't see that in Kap, yet.

Also, I wonder if his comment about Boldin and Whitner implies that he knows something behind the scenes about contract negotiations? Wishful thinking.

Kaepernick said his offseason will focus on getting better, not his contract situation. He is scheduled to begin his offseason workout program on Monday in Miami, he said. Kaepernick said he will work out at a training facility Frank Gore and Boldin recommended.

"To me, I'm trying to focus on what I need to do to get ready for next season and improve myself so I can help improve this offense and ultimately help win the Super Bowl," Kaepernick said.

Kaepernick said he will work on his all-around game -- not just his skills as a pocket passer.

"I think pocket passing is something is something that's overlooked as far as what I do," Kaepernick said. "I think people see me running around and they see me throwing on the run. They see me running down field and that's just what he does.

"When you step up in the pocket and make a normal throw, it gets overlooked because you're not running around. To me, it's something, yes, you want to get better at that. I want to get better at throwing on the run, going through progressions quicker, I want to get better at everything. But I don't think that (pocket passing) specifically is being addressed."


http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/kaepernick-next-contract-must-strike-balance

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Kap has just made a huge mistake. Because of these comments, now fans expectations for the contract are going to be pure fantasy. If the contract is anything over 10 million, fans will turn on him, call him a "liar", a "cheat", etc. This is going to get ugly.

Kap, that was a very dumb thing for you to say.

Come on. $10 million would be a bargain for the Niners and you know it. If fans are going to be angry about that kind of number, they just have no grasp on reality.

Originally posted by crake49:
Why are you assuming that Boldin and Whitner together make over $10 mil? Boldin refused to take a pay cut on a contract he had already worked out with the Ravens. He's also a lot older than he was when he worked that contract out. I don't expect him to demand anything close to that $6 mil a year as a 33 year old. Whitner is smart enough to see the writing on the wall - they let Goldson go last season and got a better Safety than Goldson in the draft. Reid has better coverage skills, was a solid tackler and had a grand total of zero flags thrown against him all season. Goldson was the most flagged safety in the league and even had to sit out a game with a suspension over unnecessary roughness penalties. So, the Niners can do the same thing this year. They can easily get the highest rated SS in the second round and Whitner is smart enough to know that.

Even if they cut their salaries in HALF (which is not happening). The same logic still applies. Kap would have say "adios" to five million dollars PER YEAR.
This kid isn't filthy rich like Tom Brady. He has a LOT to lose by being such a "great dude" and paying his teammates salaries.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Kap has just made a huge mistake. Because of these comments, now fans expectations for the contract are going to be pure fantasy. If the contract is anything over 10 million, fans will turn on him, call him a "liar", a "cheat", etc. This is going to get ugly.

Kap, that was a very dumb thing for you to say.

Come on. $10 million would be a bargain for the Niners and you know it. If fans are going to be angry about that kind of number, they just have no grasp on reality.

If Kap makes ten million next year, it will be because he has a lot more guaranteed money coming later, and fans will complain about that too. I would hate nothing more than to mortgage our future with a balloon contract, that kills us in 3 - 4 years, but let's us sit pretty for 2 - 3 years.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by crake49:
Here you go, doubters. I thought Kaepernick seemed like the kind of player who was "all-ball" and would take the big picture when it came to contract time and it looks like I was right about him:

"I think it's a balance. You want to be paid fairly for what you feel like you're doing in comparison to your peers," Kaepernick said. "But at the same time, you have to realize, if we want to get Anquan Boldin back, if we want Donte Whitner to come back, we're going to have to make moves to get them back. And there has to be room for everyone. And that's something I'm going to let my agent and the organization try to figure out. But hopefully, it's a position where we can assemble the best team we need."

This is what I am talking about in the beginning. Kap isn't selfish. He will get his money in due time. Other needs are more important, we need to get Boldin back, and maybe Whitner. Plus others who need extensions soon, Vernon, Willis, Boone, Aldon, Crabs, Iupati is likely gone. Kap is important, not saying he isn't, but we have a lot of guys to retain, so I don't see a $20M a year contract for Kap happening anytime soon.

That sounds all very nice, but we'll see exactly what kind of "team discount" actually happens.

Anquan Boldin and Donte Whitner together make over 10,000,000 dollars a year. That's ten MILLION dollars a year. Is Kap going to say goodbye to TEN MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, just so the team can keep those extra weapons?

"He doesn't have to give up that much...", you say? So he just says goodbye to, let's say four million a year. OK great, but that doesn't pay for EITHER Anquan Boldin or Donte Whitner.

"But Tom Brady cares about winning, Kap should follow his example." Huh? Tom Brady has already made tens of millions of dollars in his career, and his wife makes even more than him. Not only that, but Brady's contract is guaranteed for INJURY.
Kap is a young kid who has NOTHING GUARANTEED to him. He could get injured and then it's all over for him. It would be an absolutely UNPRECEDENTED move of Kap to throw ten million dollars a year into the garbage for "rah, rah, rah, team". It has never happened before, and once Kap sits down with his agent, all the nice TALK about how "everybody needs to get paid", will begin to look very, very, VERY expensive.

Kap has just made a huge mistake. Because of these comments, now fans expectations for the contract are going to be pure fantasy. If the contract is anything over 10 million, fans will turn on him, call him a "liar", a "cheat", etc. This is going to get ugly.

Kap, that was a very dumb thing for you to say.

I see what you've done with the math but I think most fans would be happy with a $15M p/a deal.

If Boldin & Whitner are good to take deals close to their current then I think it's very workable. Of course others will need to restructure, Willis, Davis & Bowman the likely candidates and have done so in the past. Gore's deal will certainly be scrutinized.

Rogers' & Brown's money should go to Aldon so I don't think we save there.

If Kap goes for $15 million annually he had taken a severe cut for the Niners based on the market right now. I am wondering if we can nab him for about $17 million annually?

Jed needs to talk to Eddie D about the secret envelopes... off the books and doesn't affect the Cap (no pun intended)

Originally posted by AUniner:
I see what you've done with the math but I think most fans would be happy with a $15M p/a deal.

If Boldin & Whitner are good to take deals close to their current then I think it's very workable. Of course others will need to restructure, Willis, Davis & Bowman the likely candidates and have done so in the past. Gore's deal will certainly be scrutinized.

Rogers' & Brown's money should go to Aldon so I don't think we save there.

For the most part, I would agree with that.

I think what's going to happen, is Kap is going to get a pretty heavy incentive laden deal, with a bunch of guarantees, and a little back heavy (hopefully not too much), and that 15 mil will be the hit for the next few years.

I prefer we just cut the heavy salaries from the roster. Goodwin, Whitner, Rogers, Iupati (after next year), with a cut or restructure for Gore (because it makes sense, not simply because I want it), and either cut Boldin and sign Crabs now, or sign Boldin and cut Crabs in a year (this might actually be the better option) then let the flood gates open and bring in the rookies.

People forget we won a Super Bowl with a bunch of rookies in the secondary.

Originally posted by sacniner:
Jed needs to talk to Eddie D about the secret envelopes... off the books and doesn't affect the Cap (no pun intended)

Wonderful, we desperately need to lose draft picks and get fined by the NFL.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
If Kap goes for $15 million annually he had taken a severe cut for the Niners based on the market right now. I am wondering if we can nab him for about $17 million annually?

I would prefer that. I hate deals that hurt you later. I say just make it incentive laden and no back loading. We have leverage because Kap still plays for peanuts for one more year. 17 million can work with the leverage we have and the right incentives.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Kap has just made a huge mistake. Because of these comments, now fans expectations for the contract are going to be pure fantasy. If the contract is anything over 10 million, fans will turn on him, call him a "liar", a "cheat", etc. This is going to get ugly.

Kap, that was a very dumb thing for you to say.

Come on. $10 million would be a bargain for the Niners and you know it. If fans are going to be angry about that kind of number, they just have no grasp on reality.

If Kap makes ten million next year, it will be because he has a lot more guaranteed money coming later, and fans will complain about that too. I would hate nothing more than to mortgage our future with a balloon contract, that kills us in 3 - 4 years, but let's us sit pretty for 2 - 3 years.

I really can't figure out what you think is fair for this kid. You say fans will rag on him if he doesn't give us a deal but you say he's dumb for opening that possibility. Next you try to talka about Tom Bradys contract and put Kap into that context. FYI Kap is not a 10+ year vet with Super bowl rings, records, and a HOF ballot waiting for him. Then you bring up Bradys wife...why? Because Brady is in a wealthy relationship Kap is now worth more or something? Then you make the dumbest comment by saying Kap isn't responsible for paying his teammates salaries...he isn't paying s**t. He would not be on a winning team without them, Boldin saved his ass the year. If you want this kid to be a stingy ass for money and f**k the ability to retain solid players you don't understand football.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
Kap has just made a huge mistake. Because of these comments, now fans expectations for the contract are going to be pure fantasy. If the contract is anything over 10 million, fans will turn on him, call him a "liar", a "cheat", etc. This is going to get ugly.

Kap, that was a very dumb thing for you to say.

Come on. $10 million would be a bargain for the Niners and you know it. If fans are going to be angry about that kind of number, they just have no grasp on reality.

If Kap makes ten million next year, it will be because he has a lot more guaranteed money coming later, and fans will complain about that too. I would hate nothing more than to mortgage our future with a balloon contract, that kills us in 3 - 4 years, but let's us sit pretty for 2 - 3 years.

I really can't figure out what you think is fair for this kid. You say fans will rag on him if he doesn't give us a deal but you say he's dumb for opening that possibility. Next you try to talka about Tom Bradys contract and put Kap into that context. FYI Kap is not a 10 year vet with Super bowl rings, records, and a HOF ballot waiting for him. Then you bring up Bradys wife...why? Because Brady is in a wealthy relationship Kap is now worth more or something? Then you make the dumbest comment by saying Kap isn't responsible for paying his teammates salaries...he isn't paying s**t. He would not be on a winning team without them, Boldin saved his ass the year. If you want this kid to be a stingy ass for money and f**k the ability to retain solid players you don't understand football.

"You say fans will rag on him if he doesn't give us a deal but you say he's dumb for opening that possibility."
Those are not disparate statements.
Fans will rag on him because he has implied that he will provide a "discount". A "discount" in some fans minds is a 5 - 10 million hit to his annual salary, which is a fantasy. When this fantasy does not come to fruition, some fans will be very angry at Kap because their definition of "discount" is separate from reality. The reality is that any possible discount will come in the form of an incentive laden contract, with good guarantees, and probably more money on the back end. This could bring the first few years down to 14 - 17 million; where the fantasy contract, is probably more like 10 - 15 million per, without any special incentives or guarantees, or back end money etc.

"Next you try to talks about Tom Bradys contract and put Kap into that context."
I was pointing out how they are NOT similar situations. Obviously. Therefore don't expect a similar contract like Brady's.
Brady's contract appears like a "home town discount" because of the reasons I mentioned; but it is a mirage. In other words, there is no situation in the history of the national football league, where a player in Kap's situation provides some mythical "home town" discount and gets paid 25% - 50% less than he could make, because he wants his team to keep its talent.

"Then you make the dumbest comment by saying Kap isn't responsible for paying his teammates salaries...he isn't paying s**t."
It was obviously a figurative statement; not literal.
Boldin and Whiter make over ten million a year. If Kap wants to keep them, then he has to essentially (of course not "literally") "pay" their salaries by taking drastically less money than market value.

"If you want this kid to be a stingy ass for money and f**k the ability to retain solid players you don't understand football."
Really?
I would love to be shown a player who has played in the national football league, in a similar situation to Kap, and did, as you say, "not be a stingy ass for money and f**k the ability to retain solid players". Please do find me one situation where this has occurred.
Tom Brady's situation has already been discussed ad nauseam, so you have to pick someone else.

Out of the current crop of franchise quarterbacks in the NFL:

Cutler - Stingy ass
Ryan - Stingy ass
Stafford - Stingy ass
Romo - Stingy ass
Flacco - The stingy ass king
Brees - Stingy ass
P Manning - Stingy ass
E Manning - Stingy ass
Rogers - Stingy ass
Rivers - Stingy ass
Roethlisberger - Stingy ass
Brady - Already extremely wealthy, with a contract guaranteed for injury. The ONE exception.

Every quarterback who is seen as a franchise player, has been a "stingy ass", yet somehow I have this idea in my head that Kap will be just like every other player? How could I come to that conclusion? Perhaps its this crazy thing called "historical evidence" I've been smoking.