What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by jreff22:

If he wants to play with 0 vet talent and have no D to bail him out....he better make a wise deal. Would he rather play with Kyle Williams and Patton or Boldin and Crabs?

Wait. How does Manning have weapons like Damaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, Julius Thomas ?

They don't have the payroll on defense like we do. Imagine our D without Bowman this year if we couldn't afford him.

Exactly my point. There are still ways to provide weapons to a highly paid QB. Manning isn't the only one. The money we need will have to come from the D. That means letting go of our older defenders. After this post season is complete and hopefully with our 6th superbowl championship, I think Baalke will rebuild the D with cheaper younger talent while keeping core young defenders (Willis, Bowman, Aldon, Brock, Reid) .

I have a feeling Justin Smith will retire if we get the ring. His retirement should save us some space. I would love to cut Carlos Rogers and let Whitner walk. That'll save some space as well. We will have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft. If Baalke can hit a homerun with this draft and this year's draftee's (Carradine, Dial, Lattimore) become ready, we should have plenty of ammo to replace some guys and still maintaining a very good team.

We might take a step back next year, but our future will be setup for the next decade imo.

Let me start by saying this isn't a Kap "hater" response, but a reality check.

He is not good enough to win on his own. Guys like Brady and Manning have done that for years. Kap has had an all world D at his disposal since the beginning. The D has kept almost every game within an easy reach for most of the season. The last time I looked we had an average score of 13 and change scored on us. Kap is not at the point where we can give up 28 a week and still win. Without the D, loads of field goals, and key turnovers and ST play...we aren't in the playoffs. He just isn't good enough to dismantle the D and give him the remaining cash. And if we need the cash after a monster deal, would he take a cut like Alex? Look at it like this, why was Boldin let go? They couldn't afford him after the Flacco deal, do we want that?

and regarding Trent...

He has one one stellar draft, one s**t draft, and one unknown draft. I'm not willing to bet the farm on that body of work.

O'rly?

In his year and a half as a starter, Kap has beaten three teams that have scored at least 28 on our defense. He out dueled Brady in December in Foxboro. He threw for 400 yards and 4TDs in GB week one this year. And finally, he set the all-time QB rushing record against GB in the divisional round of the playoffs last year.

This is not too mention a Superbowl comeback that had been officiated correctly would have likely been the largest Superbowl comeback in NFL's history. Also two weeks prior, coming back in Atlanta to beat Atlanta on the shoulders of our QB.

It's incredibly false to claim we don't have a QB that can win games for us. In a year and a half, he's done so on numerous occasions. Also, the notion he had a bad season is silly. I'd say the lofty expectations were not met, but all things considered, he played a huge, if not the biggest, role in getting us to a 12-4 record.

Do we have this record without the best D in the NFL? I don't care about last year, I really don't. The point that some of you are way to sensitive on is the fact that he can't do this alone. Manning throws a million TD's a season, that equates to points he's responsible for. He can have a s**t D because he can always come back and out duel 90% of other QB's. Kap is not that player right now, probably won't be next year either. And I'm fine with that, he's a different kind of player. But that means he will need help on both sides of the ball. We can't dismantle the D and give him nobodies at WR to play with...we can't win like that. Do you remember Kap without Crabs...imagine Kap with no Crabs and no Boldin. That's a very real possibility next year and it scares the s**t out of me. If we just throw 20+ mill at him you can kiss his favorite WR's good bye. How well do you think he performs with no help at the position, you think we fight for another Super bowl again? And while we deal with that on O, we also risk cap casualties on D? Imagine this year without Bowman or Aldon. We could seriously run into the losing Iupati, Boldin, Crabtree and maybe Aldon scenario if we just give him the world. You think we are a better team under those circumstances? I sure as hell don't and will be honest about it. You give him his worth to this organization but you also take his style and needs into consideration. If he needs a top level D and great talent at skill positions to win, you take those financial costs into consideration when his contract comes into play. Superbowl win or not his value to me doesn't change. Peg him around 15-17 mill per and explain winning is better then having another 4 mill a year and losing. If he becomes the "I must be the highest paid player in the NFL" guy...we move to option B. I like the kid but this is the San Francisco 49ers, not the San Francisco Kaps.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by jreff22:

If he wants to play with 0 vet talent and have no D to bail him out....he better make a wise deal. Would he rather play with Kyle Williams and Patton or Boldin and Crabs?

Wait. How does Manning have weapons like Damaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, Julius Thomas ?

They don't have the payroll on defense like we do. Imagine our D without Bowman this year if we couldn't afford him.

Exactly my point. There are still ways to provide weapons to a highly paid QB. Manning isn't the only one. The money we need will have to come from the D. That means letting go of our older defenders. After this post season is complete and hopefully with our 6th superbowl championship, I think Baalke will rebuild the D with cheaper younger talent while keeping core young defenders (Willis, Bowman, Aldon, Brock, Reid) .

I have a feeling Justin Smith will retire if we get the ring. His retirement should save us some space. I would love to cut Carlos Rogers and let Whitner walk. That'll save some space as well. We will have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft. If Baalke can hit a homerun with this draft and this year's draftee's (Carradine, Dial, Lattimore) become ready, we should have plenty of ammo to replace some guys and still maintaining a very good team.

We might take a step back next year, but our future will be setup for the next decade imo.

Let me start by saying this isn't a Kap "hater" response, but a reality check.

He is not good enough to win on his own. Guys like Brady and Manning have done that for years. Kap has had an all world D at his disposal since the beginning. The D has kept almost every game within an easy reach for most of the season. The last time I looked we had an average score of 13 and change scored on us. Kap is not at the point where we can give up 28 a week and still win. Without the D, loads of field goals, and key turnovers and ST play...we aren't in the playoffs. He just isn't good enough to dismantle the D and give him the remaining cash. And if we need the cash after a monster deal, would he take a cut like Alex? Look at it like this, why was Boldin let go? They couldn't afford him after the Flacco deal, do we want that?

and regarding Trent...

He has one one stellar draft, one s**t draft, and one unknown draft. I'm not willing to bet the farm on that body of work.

O'rly?

In his year and a half as a starter, Kap has beaten three teams that have scored at least 28 on our defense. He out dueled Brady in December in Foxboro. He threw for 400 yards and 4TDs in GB week one this year. And finally, he set the all-time QB rushing record against GB in the divisional round of the playoffs last year.

This is not too mention a Superbowl comeback that had been officiated correctly would have likely been the largest Superbowl comeback in NFL's history. Also two weeks prior, coming back in Atlanta to beat Atlanta on the shoulders of our QB.

It's incredibly false to claim we don't have a QB that can win games for us. In a year and a half, he's done so on numerous occasions. Also, the notion he had a bad season is silly. I'd say the lofty expectations were not met, but all things considered, he played a huge, if not the biggest, role in getting us to a 12-4 record.

Do we have this record without the best D in the NFL? I don't care about last year, I really don't. The point that some of you are way to sensitive on is the fact that he can't do this alone. Manning throws a million TD's a season, that equates to points he's responsible for. He can have a s**t D because he can always come back and out duel 90% of other QB's. Kap is not that player right now, probably won't be next year either. And I'm fine with that, he's a different kind of player. But that means he will need help on both sides of the ball. We can't dismantle the D and give him nobodies at WR to play with...we can't win like that. Do you remember Kap without Crabs...imagine Kap with no Crabs and no Boldin. That's a very real possibility next year and it scares the s**t out of me. If we just throw 20+ mill at him you can kiss his favorite WR's good bye. How well do you think he performs with no help at the position, you think we fight for another Super bowl again? And while we deal with that on O, we also risk cap casualties on D? Imagine this year without Bowman or Aldon. We could seriously run into the losing Iupati, Boldin, Crabtree and maybe Aldon scenario if we just give him the world. You think we are a better team under those circumstances? I sure as hell don't and will be honest about it. You give him his worth to this organization but you also take his style and needs into consideration. If he needs a top level D and great talent at skill positions to win, you take those financial costs into consideration when his contract comes into play. Superbowl win or not his value to me doesn't change. Peg him around 15-17 mill per and explain winning is better then having another 4 mill a year and losing. If he becomes the "I must be the highest paid player in the NFL" guy...we move to option B. I like the kid but this is the San Francisco 49ers, not the San Francisco Kaps.

First off, hit "enter" every few sentences.

Second, do you have any grasp of our cap situation? You talk like you know exactly what we can and cant afford down the road. AB seems to think we can structure deals and have enough to retain most of our star players, even with a big Kap contract.

Third, in the NFL, if you dont have a quality QB, you dont have any Super Bowl hopes. Its why the Ravens, Bears, and Cowboys gave non-top 10 QB's mega deals. You slip back into mediocrity without a good QB.

Kap will get what a young, playoff proven, franchise QB is owed. It wont be cheap, but its a necessary investment if you want to win.

Kaep averaged only 200 yards per game in passing... ranking 32nd in the league. How will that factor into negotiations, if at all?

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Kaep averaged only 200 yards per game in passing... ranking 32nd in the league. How will that factor into negotiations, if at all?

He is top ten in yards-per-attempt.

Cumulative totals are meaningless stats.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by sevenup3000:
How would that keep him behind Luck? If anything that makes it worst. Luck has already made more money than Kap has because he was drafted 1st.

Wilson and Kap (and Dalton) are going to go for broke on their second contracts because they were "raped" on their rookie deals, and need to make up on lost income.
Wilson is getting paid something like $500,000 this season. Kap not that much more.

Yeah, Kap actually should demand MORE than Luck or Newton or RGIII because of this.

I don't think that's how it works. The CBA is what it is. They agreed with the owners to lower rookie salaries. No team is going to care about Kap, or any player's, lost income. Kap is going to get paid fair market value regardless.

In reality the team will begin looking at the players last contract and then compare QBs around the league. Kaepernick's agent will go the QBR root and quote Jim Harbaugh. With the teams run first mentality the QB position is not going to gain as many yards passing so CK will have to use his running and passing, and games won. Then the team will look back and say..."Gee, our last QB won more games in the last two years and he's not making anywhere what your asking!"

They will go back and forth, including Baalke saying something like..."Would you like to let the OLine go and we can hire some scrubs to protect you?"

On and on...and at some point Kaepernick will decide whether his future looks better with this incredibly talented team or another team. Who knows how it will go, but I do believe he will be a wealthy young man no matter.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by sevenup3000:
How would that keep him behind Luck? If anything that makes it worst. Luck has already made more money than Kap has because he was drafted 1st.

Wilson and Kap (and Dalton) are going to go for broke on their second contracts because they were "raped" on their rookie deals, and need to make up on lost income.
Wilson is getting paid something like $500,000 this season. Kap not that much more.

Yeah, Kap actually should demand MORE than Luck or Newton or RGIII because of this.

I don't think that's how it works. The CBA is what it is. They agreed with the owners to lower rookie salaries. No team is going to care about Kap, or any player's, lost income. Kap is going to get paid fair market value regardless.

In reality the team will begin looking at the players last contract and then compare QBs around the league. Kaepernick's agent will go the QBR root and quote Jim Harbaugh. With the teams run first mentality the QB position is not going to gain as many yards passing so CK will have to use his running and passing, and games won. Then the team will look back and say..."Gee, our last QB won more games in the last two years and he's not making anywhere what your asking!"

They will go back and forth, including Baalke saying something like..."Would you like to let the OLine go and we can hire some scrubs to protect you?"

On and on...and at some point Kaepernick will decide whether his future looks better with this incredibly talented team or another team. Who knows how it will go, but I do believe he will be a wealthy young man no matter.

Sounds about right to me. Kaep, like most of our guys will want to get paid, but I don't expect Kaep (or most of our guys for that matter) to take the Dashon Goldson route (bolting for whoever the highest bidder is). It all started with Frank Gore. He didn't go for some kind of max deal after that 1,695 yard season. Our top tier guys traditionally followed suit. I believe that tradition will continue.

Bump....3 4th quarter turnovers

Devastated.

this is tricky. lucky im not paraag or baalke.

Originally posted by pdizo916:

this is tricky. lucky im not paraag or baalke.

TBH I think we're at boom or bust now. I give him 3yrs 40m or let him play out next year.

A 4 year 60M extension is fair to both sides. He plays out his rookie year and then the extension kicks in. Gives Kap an opportunity to go for another extension when he's just 30. We don't have to commit to him for 6-7 years for $100M.

Originally posted by AUniner:
TBH I think we're at boom or bust now. I give him 3yrs 40m or let him play out next year.

let him demonstrate to everyone next year that he is elite, then pay him elite money.
if we get more of the same, then he is what he is, and we have a decision to make: go hardline on our offer and welcome him as only a good qb, or let him walk to a pie-in-the-sky team who overpays.

Originally posted by 4ML:
A 4 year 60M extension is fair to both sides. He plays out his rookie year and then the extension kicks in. Gives Kap an opportunity to go for another extension when he's just 30. We don't have to commit to him for 6-7 years for $100M.

If he gets an extension this offseason I would think that is as good as it is going to be. The 49ers have the leverage at this point in time and if he wants to get something long term he's going to have to be reasonable.

Since when was $15 million a year a slap in the face to a QB ranked in the bottom half in the league in most of the important categories a slap in the face anyways?

Just for kicks looking at the numbers of all 12 QBs in the playoffs (just using averages, not using overall because not all QB's played the same number of games) he was 11th in passer rating, 9th in Yards Per Attempt, 9th in longest completion, 9th in yards per game, 12th/last in completion percentage.

As much as he did running the ball these are not the kind of numbers that gets someone a franchise QB contract. $60 million over 4 years is more than fair (and that is only because this is the day and age of over-inflating starting QB's contracts).

15-17 mill a year.