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What is Kaeps worth....?

What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by jreff22:
If he wants to play with 0 vet talent and have no D to bail him out....he better make a wise deal. Would he rather play with Kyle Williams and Patton or Boldin and Crabs?

Wait. How does Manning have weapons like Damaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, Julius Thomas ?

They don't have the payroll on defense like we do. Imagine our D without Bowman this year if we couldn't afford him.

Exactly my point. There are still ways to provide weapons to a highly paid QB. Manning isn't the only one. The money we need will have to come from the D. That means letting go of our older defenders. After this postseason is complete and hopefully with our 6th superbowl championship, I think Baalke will rebuild the D with cheaper younger talent while keeping core young defenders (Willis, Bowman, Aldon, Brock, Reid) .

I have a feeling Justin Smith will retire if we get the ring. His retirement should save us some space. I would love to cut Carlos Rogers and let Whitner walk. That'll save some space as well. We will have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft. If Baalke can hit a homerun with this draft and this year's draftee's (Carradine, Dial, Lattimore) become ready, we should have plenty of ammo to replace some guys and still maintaining a very good team.

We might take a step back next year, but our future will be setup for the next decade imo.

Let me start by saying this isn't a Kap "hater" response, but a reality check.

He is not good enough to win on his own. Guys like Brady and Manning have done that for years. Kap has had an all world D at his disposal since the beginning. The D has kept almost every game within an easy reach for most of the season. The last time I looked we had an average score of 13 and change scored on us. Kap is not at the point where we can give up 28 a week and still win. Without the D, loads of field goals, and key turnovers and ST play...we aren't in the playoffs. He just isn't good enough to dismantle the D and give him the remaining cash. And if we need the cash after a monster deal, would he take a cut like Alex? Look at it like this, why was Boldin let go? They couldn't afford him after the Flacco deal, do we want that?

and regrading Trent...

He has one one stellar draft, one s**t draft, and one unknown draft. I'm not willing to bet the farm on that body of work.

O'rly?

In his year and a half as a starter, Kap has beaten three teams that have scored at least 28 on our defense. He outdueled Brady in December in Foxboro. He threw for 400 yards and 4TDs in GB week one this year. And finally, he set the all-time QB rushing record against GB in the divisional round of the playoffs last year.

This is not too mention a Superbowl comeback that had been officiated correctly would have likely been the largest Superbowl comeback in NFL's history. Also two weeks prior, coming back in Atlanta to beat Atlanta on the shoulders of our QB.

It's incredibly false to claim we don't have a QB that can win games for us. In a year and a half, he's done so on numerous occasions. Also, the notion he had a bad season is silly. I'd say the lofty expectations were not met, but all things considered, he played a huge, if not the biggest, role in getting us to a 12-4 record.
[ Edited by AmpLee on Jan 9, 2014 at 11:38 AM ]
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by crabman82:
matt ryans 2nd contract after 1 playoff win: 6 years 113.7 million

joe flaccos 2nd deal after a sb win : 6 years 120 million

A.) Those were both horrible decisions by their respective GM's. No one else was going to pay either of them that much in free agency.

B.) They were after longer periods of time and more success. Ryan had just come off his 5th season throwing 4,719 yards and 32 TDs with a 69% completion percentage. He was their offense! Kap has been in the league for three and only started a season and a half. His first year as a starter he threw for 3,179 yards and 21 TDs with a 58% completion percentage. While that is a pretty good year, especially when you factor in his rushing yards and TDs, its nothing like what Ryan did the year before he got his contract.

Joe Flacco's deal was straight retarded. Such a good deal they lost Anquan Boldin and probably a playoff birth for it.

Not sure why people keep acting like other team's mistakes mean everyone is going to make the same mistake.

the poster i replied to straight up said "No quarterback gets paid top tier on their first non-rookie contract.".......sorry for proving him wrong

And I clarified what I was saying. The other quarterbacks who sat for 1-3 years before becoming starters signed modest second contracts before hitting the big payday. Only guys who were day 1 starters and had 5-6 years of starting experience signed huge follow up deals. Kaep should fall into the former. I'm sorry you couldn't follow.
he is worth me ignoring my family every sunday
In looking at other QB salaries his contract will be about guaranteed money. I think if he gets a lot of it he won't care what the contract 'looks' like. Cutlers deal looks huge but its really a 3yr deal with good guarantees. I'd imagine if he gets 7 for 100mil with 50 guarantee d he'd take it.
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
In looking at other QB salaries his contract will be about guaranteed money. I think if he gets a lot of it he won't care what the contract 'looks' like. Cutlers deal looks huge but its really a 3yr deal with good guarantees. I'd imagine if he gets 7 for 100mil with 50 guarantee d he'd take it.

The problem with cutler's deal is it has him getting over $22 million in one of the first three seasons. Guaranteed. That is too big of a cap number for any one player.

In the NBA it is OK for one player to take up 18% of the cap as there is only 11-13 players on an NBA roster (and they can go over the cap). In the NFL, when the top 52 contracts on the roster, as well as contracts for players on the PUP and a few other lists, count against the cap it is insane.
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
In looking at other QB salaries his contract will be about guaranteed money. I think if he gets a lot of it he won't care what the contract 'looks' like. Cutlers deal looks huge but its really a 3yr deal with good guarantees. I'd imagine if he gets 7 for 100mil with 50 guarantee d he'd take it.

The problem with cutler's deal is it has him getting over $22 million in one of the first three seasons. Guaranteed. That is too big of a cap number for any one player.

In the NBA it is OK for one player to take up 18% of the cap as there is only 11-13 players on an NBA roster (and they can go over the cap). In the NFL, when the top 52 contracts on the roster, as well as contracts for players on the PUP and a few other lists, count against the cap it is insane.

Yeah but remember, EVERY team with a franchise QB, and some without have to and are paying their QB top dollar. No team gets to keep all of their best players but the good organizations tend to keep their core guys and most of ours are under contract for a few more years. That coupled with our crap load of draft picks will keep us good for quite a while.
bout 2.50
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Yeah but remember, EVERY team with a franchise QB, and some without have to and are paying their QB top dollar. No team gets to keep all of their best players but the good organizations tend to keep their core guys and most of ours are under contract for a few more years. That coupled with our crap load of draft picks will keep us good for quite a while.

Every team? The 49ers have been able to do it without doing that, both with Alex Smith in 2011 and the first half of 2012 and with Kaepernick since.

The draft picks will help though. That is a good point.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
O'rly?

In his year and a half as a starter, Kap has beaten three teams that have scored at least 28 on our defense. He outdueled Brady in December in Foxboro. He threw for 400 yards and 4TDs in GB week one this year. And finally, he set the all-time QB rushing record against GB in the divisional round of the playoffs last year.

This is not too mention a Superbowl comeback that had been officiated correctly would have likely been the largest Superbowl comeback in NFL's history. Also two weeks prior, coming back in Atlanta to beat Atlanta on the shoulders of our QB.

It's incredibly false to claim we don't have a QB that can win games for us. In a year and a half, he's done so on numerous occasions. Also, the notion he had a bad season is silly. I'd say the lofty expectations were not met, but all things considered, he played a huge, if not the biggest, role in getting us to a 12-4 record.

Some people just refuse to let facts get in the way of a tired old argument.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
O'rly?

In his year and a half as a starter, Kap has beaten three teams that have scored at least 28 on our defense. He outdueled Brady in December in Foxboro. He threw for 400 yards and 4TDs in GB week one this year. And finally, he set the all-time QB rushing record against GB in the divisional round of the playoffs last year.

This is not too mention a Superbowl comeback that had been officiated correctly would have likely been the largest Superbowl comeback in NFL's history. Also two weeks prior, coming back in Atlanta to beat Atlanta on the shoulders of our QB.

It's incredibly false to claim we don't have a QB that can win games for us. In a year and a half, he's done so on numerous occasions. Also, the notion he had a bad season is silly. I'd say the lofty expectations were not met, but all things considered, he played a huge, if not the biggest, role in getting us to a 12-4 record.

Way to key in one one statement, completely ignoring the rest of it, and get it wrong while you are at it.

No one ever said the 49ers can't ever win with Kaepernick at QB if the other team scores 28 points or more. He said week in, week out. He said without timely turnovers, a great kicking game, and a stout defense.

Generally speaking, the last season and a half point to that being an accurate statement. That's not a bad thing either, the completeness of this team is the reason we are 12-4 and favored going on the road to play a team that already beat us in our home. Its not Kaepernick VS Newton (although that is an interesting conversation) but the 49ers VS Panthers, with the 49ers being favorites because they are the better and more complete TEAM.
[ Edited by Gavintech on Jan 9, 2014 at 3:12 PM ]
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
O'rly?

In his year and a half as a starter, Kap has beaten three teams that have scored at least 28 on our defense. He outdueled Brady in December in Foxboro. He threw for 400 yards and 4TDs in GB week one this year. And finally, he set the all-time QB rushing record against GB in the divisional round of the playoffs last year.

This is not too mention a Superbowl comeback that had been officiated correctly would have likely been the largest Superbowl comeback in NFL's history. Also two weeks prior, coming back in Atlanta to beat Atlanta on the shoulders of our QB.

It's incredibly false to claim we don't have a QB that can win games for us. In a year and a half, he's done so on numerous occasions. Also, the notion he had a bad season is silly. I'd say the lofty expectations were not met, but all things considered, he played a huge, if not the biggest, role in getting us to a 12-4 record.

Some people just refuse to let facts get in the way of a tired old argument.

As I just said in another thread, for those who wish, and pray, that Kaep will leave the 49ers, prepare yourselves for a rude awakening.
Originally posted by ayetee:
As I just said in another thread, for those who wish, and pray, that Kaep will leave the 49ers, prepare yourselves for a rude awakening.

I don't think those people exist.

There is a HUGE difference between thinking a guy is not worth a $100,000,000 contract and "wishing and praying" that he leaves the team. Absolutes, aren't they great?
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by kronik:
You're not a Kap hater? I can tell you worship the old "pocket passer" pass for alot of yards type QB's and think it's all that is holy. But I got news for you. The NFL is evolving. It's always evolving. Those guys haven't won jackcrap for a long time. You like to give credit to the D and our kicker, but you do not give any credit to Kaep who accounted for 325 of the team's 377 yards of offense. It's not just this playoff game. Look at last year's playoff games. BTW, do you realize how young he is and how he is only going to get better?

It takes a full season before you get to the playoffs. Without the supporting cast, Kap is not in the playoffs. Funny that you mention I'm a stats guy when your argument is stats...ironic? One great playoff game doesn't wipe out a season of struggle. I was one of the few who were talking about Kap early. Go look in the Kap thread and you will see me talking about him during the Senior Bowl practices. I don't need a pocket passer, but I do need strong play week in and week out. And at this point his play has not shown he can do it all alone. One over expensive player can cripple a roster...Flacco, Fitzgerald, Bradford etc etc. If Kap can't spread the ball to a second WR not named Crabtree, it's more wise to ask for less and keep his favorite player.

One great playoff game? Hello, when did he ever have a bad playoff game or even a mediocre one?
Season of struggle? Do you even know the definition of struggle? How was he top 10 rated QB and ranked 7th in QBR while struggling all season?
Originally posted by kronik:
How was he top 10 rated QB and ranked 7th in QBR while struggling all season?

I remember when it was someone else behind center things like Passer Rating and QBR didn't matter because the 49ers don't throw the ball as much as other teams. Funny how they matter so much now.
[ Edited by Gavintech on Jan 9, 2014 at 3:59 PM ]
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by ayetee:
As I just said in another thread, for those who wish, and pray, that Kaep will leave the 49ers, prepare yourselves for a rude awakening.

I don't think those people exist.

There is a HUGE difference between thinking a guy is not worth a $100,000,000 contract and "wishing and praying" that he leaves the team. Absolutes, aren't they great?

Seems like the issue you have is with the NFL pay scale for QB's. If that is the case, I somewhat agree. Salaries in all sports has gotten out of hand. It's not limited to just football. The thing is... it doesn't matter what you or I feel a certain player is worth. The 'market' determines that whether we like it or not.