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Analysis from the Arizona Cardinals game coaches film

  • thl408
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Originally posted by 49erphan:
Originally posted by thl408:


Originally posted by 49erphan:
Thanks for showing that; I had wondered about how effective play action had been in slowing down the rush. It seems like the Packers - with Lacy as a strong running threat and Rodgers with his amazing quick and accurate throws - could do the same thing. Is there anything the 9ers can do schematically to deal with it?
I feel that 28 yard run by Mendenhall really messed up the 49ers in the head. After that run, they (ILBs) were biting on the play fake (as jonnydel mentioned on play#1) and so were some of the CBs all throughout the game. Just hypothesizing, but one of the reasons I think the 49er CBs bite on the play fake is because they play with a cushion. Playing with a cushion has its pros and cons. Pros are coverage disguise, ability to attack downhill on run plays, ability to see route combinations develop (since they are further back and can see more of the field), and the ability to read the QB's dropback to help gauge the depth of the WR routes. For example, seeing a three step drop probably means a quick pass, so get ready to jump a short route. However, having their eyes in the backfield also makes it more likely to fall for the play fake.

Against GB, they just have to work to make GB one dimensional, which I think is the 49er's goal coming into every game. But, if Lacy happens to rip off a big gain, don't allow it to mess with the CBs' heads too much. The defensive backfield has to continue to trust the front 7 to handle the run game and just concentrate on the WRs.


I can see how a play action fake to Lacey by Rodgers could cause problems for Bowman and/or Willis. I'm wondering, too, about how play action fakes affect Aldon Smith and Brooks - does it cause them to pause in their pass rush to make sure there isn't a receiver they need to drop back to cover? I suppose that depends on the defense called against a particular offensive play, but is there a general tendency of play action fake to a productive running back which woulto slow down the outside linebacker pass rushes?

Aldon and Brooks were very affected by the play action fake and it has to do with their assignment responsibilities (jonesadrian touched on this in post #85). Once Palmer's back is turned to execute the play fake, Aldon and Brooks will halt in their tracks to set the edge. Once they recognize that it is a play fake, they have to regain momentum to rush the QB (this can probably best be seen in the telecast). You already mentioned how the ILBs are affected. Normal responsibilities that come with a 1st/2nd down defensive playcall for a 3-4 OLB. Fangio can say 'go get the QB', but that's a gamble that loses if the offense decides to run through the B or C gap.
  • thl408
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Originally posted by BKpower:
I know there's been a lot of talk about AR-type plays vs PS plays with regards to what we're actually running, but from my own observations combined with what I've been reading on here, wouldn't AR-type plays be evidence of coverage reads (2nd link) as there's really no reason to stare down a receiver when a QB should know in the first place where the receivers are going. Considering that we seem to call multiple-plays a lot in the huddle, combined with being really slow with the play clock and so many shifts and motions to manipulate the defense or to try to get them to tip their intentions off, it seems like Kaepernick is being schooled by Harbaugh and Roman to understand defenses as fast as he can possibly go at the moment (and which inexperience can rear its ugly head at times). I know that it was either Lynch or Gruden who mentioned this, that Kaepernick is sometimes too enamored by getting the perfect playcall and that it really slows the offense down when we're not actively seeking to slow it down.

An AR play has been termed as a play where the target of the pass is determined once the huddle breaks, not much reading of coverage to be done. In a coverage read play, the target is determined by the QB once he makes a read on the defense, not when the huddle breaks. There can be a route combination that beats man coverage on one side of the formation, a combination that beats zone coverage on the other side, and it's up to the QB to go to the correct side once he knows the coverage. A good QB knows pre-snap, a worse QB knows after the snap and must go to his second read, a bad QB knows after the play is over.

If anything, a progression read is more AR-ish, as described in the article. Just to summarize, on a progression read play, everyone on offense knows who the first read is, who the second read is, and so on, once the huddle breaks. The lines can blur between coverage and progression, but I think the article listed the differences well.

Regarding the bolded, Harbaugh was a QB that liked having the freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage. He got chewed out by Ditka for calling an audible when he played for the Bears. That memory makes me think Jim is very much into allowing the QB to make the playcall once he sees the defense. Perhaps Jim is grooming Kap into a Peyton type of QB that calls plays at the line of scrimmage.


@ 2:57 to see why Jim got chewed out. And at 4:44 when Ditka is pissed because "when the player knows more than the coach, we have a problem". The whole post game talk was telliing.

?t=2m58s
[ Edited by thl408 on Jan 2, 2014 at 10:05 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by BKpower:
I know there's been a lot of talk about AR-type plays vs PS plays with regards to what we're actually running, but from my own observations combined with what I've been reading on here, wouldn't AR-type plays be evidence of coverage reads (2nd link) as there's really no reason to stare down a receiver when a QB should know in the first place where the receivers are going. Considering that we seem to call multiple-plays a lot in the huddle, combined with being really slow with the play clock and so many shifts and motions to manipulate the defense or to try to get them to tip their intentions off, it seems like Kaepernick is being schooled by Harbaugh and Roman to understand defenses as fast as he can possibly go at the moment (and which inexperience can rear its ugly head at times). I know that it was either Lynch or Gruden who mentioned this, that Kaepernick is sometimes too enamored by getting the perfect playcall and that it really slows the offense down when we're not actively seeking to slow it down.

An AR play has been termed as a play where the target of the pass is determined once the huddle breaks, not much reading of coverage to be done. In a coverage read play, the target is determined by the QB once he makes a read on the defense, not when the huddle breaks. There can be a route combination that beats man coverage on one side of the formation, a combination that beats zone coverage on the other side, and it's up to the QB to go to the correct side once he knows the coverage. A good QB knows pre-snap, a worse QB knows after the snap and must go to his second read, a bad QB knows after the play is over.

If anything, a progression read is more AR-ish, as described in the article. Just to summarize, on a progression read play, everyone on offense knows who the first read is, who the second read is, and so on, once the huddle breaks. The lines can blur between coverage and progression, but I think the article listed the differences well.

Regarding the bolded, Harbaugh was a QB that liked having the freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage. He got chewed out by Ditka for calling an audible when he played for the Bears. That memory makes me think Jim is very much into allowing the QB to make the playcall once he sees the defense. Perhaps Jim is grooming Kap into a Peyton type of QB that calls plays at the line of scrimmage.


@ 2:57 to see why Jim got chewed out. And at 4:44 when Ditka is pissed because "when the player knows more than the coach, we have a problem". The whole post game talk was telliing.

?t=2m58s

Wow, I almost forgot Roger Craig played as a Viking. Nice stroll down memory lane. Thanks
We need an analysis of the packers thread.
  • ace52
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  • Posts: 338
Originally posted by Joecool:
We need an analysis of the packers thread.

I'm eagerly waiting for this too. I hope we can get one.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by BKpower:
I know there's been a lot of talk about AR-type plays vs PS plays with regards to what we're actually running, but from my own observations combined with what I've been reading on here, wouldn't AR-type plays be evidence of coverage reads (2nd link) as there's really no reason to stare down a receiver when a QB should know in the first place where the receivers are going. Considering that we seem to call multiple-plays a lot in the huddle, combined with being really slow with the play clock and so many shifts and motions to manipulate the defense or to try to get them to tip their intentions off, it seems like Kaepernick is being schooled by Harbaugh and Roman to understand defenses as fast as he can possibly go at the moment (and which inexperience can rear its ugly head at times). I know that it was either Lynch or Gruden who mentioned this, that Kaepernick is sometimes too enamored by getting the perfect playcall and that it really slows the offense down when we're not actively seeking to slow it down.

An AR play has been termed as a play where the target of the pass is determined once the huddle breaks, not much reading of coverage to be done. In a coverage read play, the target is determined by the QB once he makes a read on the defense, not when the huddle breaks. There can be a route combination that beats man coverage on one side of the formation, a combination that beats zone coverage on the other side, and it's up to the QB to go to the correct side once he knows the coverage. A good QB knows pre-snap, a worse QB knows after the snap and must go to his second read, a bad QB knows after the play is over.

If anything, a progression read is more AR-ish, as described in the article. Just to summarize, on a progression read play, everyone on offense knows who the first read is, who the second read is, and so on, once the huddle breaks. The lines can blur between coverage and progression, but I think the article listed the differences well.

Regarding the bolded, Harbaugh was a QB that liked having the freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage. He got chewed out by Ditka for calling an audible when he played for the Bears. That memory makes me think Jim is very much into allowing the QB to make the playcall once he sees the defense. Perhaps Jim is grooming Kap into a Peyton type of QB that calls plays at the line of scrimmage.


@ 2:57 to see why Jim got chewed out. And at 4:44 when Ditka is pissed because "when the player knows more than the coach, we have a problem". The whole post game talk was telliing.

?t=2m58s

Wow, I almost forgot Roger Craig played as a Viking. Nice stroll down memory lane. Thanks

That TD pass by Harbaugh was a thing of beauty and then a horrible INT. He was a lot more mobile than I ever realized. Just watching his body language and playing style you can see that imprint on how the current Niners play.
Originally posted by ace52:
Originally posted by Joecool:
We need an analysis of the packers thread.

I'm eagerly waiting for this too. I hope we can get one.
Hey guys, sorry I couldn't get one out this week, after getting back from taking care of my dad I was super swamped with back work and had to work a lot of overtime this week to make up for it. I'm hoping to be back on track by next week to give a breakdown of whoever else we're facing(yes I'm expecting a win)
  • ace52
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Hey guys, sorry I couldn't get one out this week, after getting back from taking care of my dad I was super swamped with back work and had to work a lot of overtime this week to make up for it. I'm hoping to be back on track by next week to give a breakdown of whoever else we're facing(yes I'm expecting a win)

Thanks jonnydel.
I hope you're right, and look forward to your breakdown of the Carolina Panthers
  • thl408
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Some GB stuff. Here's something the 49ers will look to do again when facing off in the game. In week 1, a good handful of big pass plays came from coming out of a bunch formation and/or trips formation. This attacks the communication of the GB DBs. They must have their assignments clear or a blown coverage can occur.

#1
Boldin motions from being flanked out wide to in the middle. (not shown) The ball is snapped before Boldin is set, reducing the amount of time the GB DB's have to communicate.

The play: KW's route allows for a passing lane while VD's route draws two DBs. 22 yard gain to Boldin


#2
2Q 9:02 3rd and 6. 49ers scored in the 2012 playoff game off a similar play, but with Crabs scoring. Now it's Boldin.


The play: The safety recognizes the play, but can't make a tackle.


#3: This was the Boldin catch over two DBs for 22 yards.

The play: The GB coverage wasn't so bad here. Just a good play between QB and WR.


#4. GB blitzes and sends 5 pass rushers, but they go with zone coverage. My guess is because they are scared of Kap's scrambling so they want to keep their eyes on him. Boldin for 30 yards.

The play: Blitzing is usually backed up with man coverage because if it's zone, there are less zone defenders which means each defender is covering so much more ground that they end up stretching themselves as the play develops. Even with just 3 route runners, 2 are wide open once Kap steps past the rush and buys time.


#5
Spread trips formation.

The play: The LB lined up over Boldin will turn and run to his designated zone at the snap. If that's what that LB is supposed to be do, then the CB does not back him up on it by switching in time. Another missed tackle. 43 yards catch and run (not shown).


49ers can have a deadly trips combination of Crabs, VD, and Boldin. They have used it the past few games and we should expect it to get some nice chunk yards later today.
[ Edited by thl408 on Jan 5, 2014 at 12:53 AM ]
^^ The wait is killing me! Go niners! I see them having a really good game...but on any given frozen Sunday!
  • GORO
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Originally posted by ace52:
Thanks jonnydel.
I hope you're right, and look forward to your breakdown of the Carolina Panthers


Thanks Jonnydel! I was starting to think you were really Roman and to busy preparing for the Pack(lol) Hope your Dad is still doing well!
thl408 and Jonnydel the same person?
  • GORO
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Originally posted by defenderDX:
thl408 and Jonnydel the same person?


Jonydel is Roman and thl1408 is Christ the Qb coach.
Johnny del, in your GB thread can you provide a synopsis of why we had such a hard time moving the ball against a completely depleted GB D? Thank you.