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Analysis from the Arizona Cardinals game coaches film

  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,863
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Kilgore got blown up on a few plays he was in on sunday as well. Overall, Goodwin does play pretty well, my biggest critique of Goodwin is that he tries to play with his hands a lot and doesn't engage strong in run blocking. He's got a lot to digest and handle from the mental aspect of the game, as well as performing strong. He's probably 2nd to Staley on the team in pressures given up(I can't speak to the exact numbers cause I haven't looked them up, but it's the impression I get from watching film). To me, Kilgore would have to show a lot in practice and OTA's as far as his ability to move very athletically and play with overwhelming power to unseat Goodwin.

For Iupati, I think he tries and use his brute strength too much and will get sloppy in his footwork sometimes, so he struggles against bigger players who can negate his strength.

To me, the O-line just has to start playing in sync. I think with the playoffs looming they will. They played pretty well against Tampa, St. Louis, Seatle, and Washington. This was more of an anomaly.

Think of our O-line as kind of the opposite end of the spectrum than the Patriots O-line. The patriots have the best pass protection in the league. Tom Brady regularly gets 4-5 seconds in the pocket; on the flipside, they have to have things go their way and teams have to being selling out for the pass for them to run the ball effectively.

We are probably the best run blocking O-line in the league. However, we struggle in pass pro when the opposing team knows it's a passing situation.

I want to believe that, however I would expect the best run blocking OL to routinely pick up a 3rd on 1 on the ground, and punch it in at the goal line. I don't think we have been that effective at 3rd and 1, not sure about goal line effectiveness. The only positive I can say about our OL is that we routinely see 8 in the box, yet we can still run effectively most of the time.
Lemonhead makes a great rush on his gif.

Was this last play to Housler blown coverage by the safety?
  • GORO
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,814
Originally posted by fryet:
I want to believe that, however I would expect the best run blocking OL to routinely pick up a 3rd on 1 on the ground, and punch it in at the goal line. I don't think we have been that effective at 3rd and 1, not sure about goal line effectiveness. The only positive I can say about our OL is that we routinely see 8 in the box, yet we can still run effectively most of the time.


I agree and according to PRO FOOTBALL FOCUS the eagles are the best run blocking team with a grade of 100.6 and 49ers next with 40.
Originally posted by thl408:
There has been discussion with the pass rush and the pass defense in general. Very understandable that those concerns were louder after the ARI game where Palmer threw for 400+ yards. ARI got big passing gains by using a common theme, play action on 1st or 2nd down. Neutralizing the pass rush with the play action allowed the longer routes to develop and Palmer made some good throws when he was given time. To help out the LT with pass protection, Aldon was often faced with a TE lined up on his side of the formation.

Thanks for showing that; I had wondered about how effective play action had been in slowing down the rush. It seems like the Packers - with Lacy as a strong running threat and Rodgers with his amazing quick and accurate throws - could do the same thing. Is there anything the 9ers can do schematically to deal with it?
Originally posted by thl408:
There has been discussion with the pass rush and the pass defense in general. Very understandable that those concerns were louder after the ARI game where Palmer threw for 400+ yards. ARI got big passing gains by using a common theme, play action on 1st or 2nd down. Neutralizing the pass rush with the play action allowed the longer routes to develop and Palmer made some good throws when he was given time. To help out the LT with pass protection, Aldon was often faced with a TE lined up on his side of the formation.

ARI's first two drives were a 3&Out then Bowman's INT. On their third drive of the game, their offense finally made some noise, but it ended with a missed FG. On the second play of this drive, Mendenhall ripped off a 28 yard gain right up the gut of the 49er defense. That run set the stage for the rest of the game. (I forgot to list the time on the clock, but the plays are in chronological order).

1 - Later on that drive, the first big pass play of the day was made by ARI. 2nd down, play action, TE on Aldon's side.

The play: 18 yards to Dray


2 - 1st down, play action, TE on Lemon's side. 49 yard gain to Fitz.


The play: I had to break the GIF up to meet size requirements. Focusing on the play action and the pass rush. Palmer gets hit by Lemon right as he releases.


Post-corner double move. Solid route, but excellent throw. This play was replayed a few times on the telecast. Biggest pass play of the day for ARI.


3 - 2nd down, play action, TE to Aldon's side.


The play:44 yards to Floyd


4 - 1st down, no play action, but one of the route runners help out with by impeding Aldon.


The play: 24 yards to Fitz


5 - No TE on Aldon's side this time, but ARI will pull the RG over to Aldon's side to sell the play action.


The play: That RG along with the RB will look to block Aldon. Only when the RB knows that the RG has successfully pulled will he release on a route. 30 yard gain to Housler.
These were some of the plays I had in mind in my OP. The first play, our LB's blow their coverage by selling out on the run fake. Our guys don't do that too often, I think we didn't bring our "A" game.
On the last play, we're playing cover 3 and Brock is supposed to peel off his man once he runs the DIG, instead he shadows him too long allowing the TE to get free down into his deep 3rd. Since he has inside help he needs to play like he has it by not turning his hips so much.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
These were some of the plays I had in mind in my OP. The first play, our LB's blow their coverage by selling out on the run fake. Our guys don't do that too often, I think we didn't bring our "A" game.
On the last play, we're playing cover 3 and Brock is supposed to peel off his man once he runs the DIG, instead he shadows him too long allowing the TE to get free down into his deep 3rd. Since he has inside help he needs to play like he has it by not turning his hips so much.

well hope they're dialed in going forward
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Lemonhead makes a great rush on his gif.

Was this last play to Housler blown coverage by the safety?
Originally posted by jonnydel:
These were some of the plays I had in mind in my OP. The first play, our LB's blow their coverage by selling out on the run fake. Our guys don't do that too often, I think we didn't bring our "A" game.
On the last play, we're playing cover 3 and Brock is supposed to peel off his man once he runs the DIG, instead he shadows him too long allowing the TE to get free down into his deep 3rd. Since he has inside help he needs to play like he has it by not turning his hips so much.
I agree that play was on Brock. He should have allowed Reid to take that WR and stayed in his zone. Brock didn't seem right after play #3 of post #90.


Originally posted by 49erphan:
Thanks for showing that; I had wondered about how effective play action had been in slowing down the rush. It seems like the Packers - with Lacy as a strong running threat and Rodgers with his amazing quick and accurate throws - could do the same thing. Is there anything the 9ers can do schematically to deal with it?
I feel that 28 yard run by Mendenhall really messed up the 49ers in the head. After that run, they (ILBs) were biting on the play fake (as jonnydel mentioned on play#1) and so were some of the CBs all throughout the game. Just hypothesizing, but one of the reasons I think the 49er CBs bite on the play fake is because they play with a cushion. Playing with a cushion has its pros and cons. Pros are coverage disguise, ability to attack downhill on run plays, ability to see route combinations develop (since they are further back and can see more of the field), and the ability to read the QB's dropback to help gauge the depth of the WR routes. For example, seeing a three step drop probably means a quick pass, so get ready to jump a short route. However, having their eyes in the backfield also makes it more likely to fall for the play fake.

Against GB, they just have to work to make GB one dimensional, which I think is the 49er's goal coming into every game. But, if Lacy happens to rip off a big gain, don't allow it to mess with the CBs' heads too much. The defensive backfield has to continue to trust the front 7 to handle the run game and just concentrate on the WRs.
Jonnydel, really good news about your dad. Let's hope that keeps up. A question re: first qtr. Last week I wrote that it would be interesting if the 9ers went with 20 scripted plays to try and get out of the 1st half doldrums we kept finding ourselves in. Do you think the first qtr( unlike the other 3) that looked like a swiss watch was scripted?

Other thing is just an observation. By all accounts we didn't play well, AZ had a lot on the line and played like demons. Gotta hand it to them. Against the #1 run D we still win, and we played poorly. Yes we had some heroics, courtesy of Bowman, but if we can play seemingly off key against a red hot AZ team, and still win, it certainly seems we go into GB in good shape...where we have it ALL on the line.
Common denominator on all those plays are the CB playing off coverage. If they weren't giving guys a free release all the time that would help the pass rush get home.
Can you guys give some recommended reading for some of us that want to get more into this stuff.

There has been great insight from so many on here that this is really in open question. I am hoping to understand the concepts of both offence and defense better.

Thanks.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Common denominator on all those plays are the CB playing off coverage. If they weren't giving guys a free release all the time that would help the pass rush get home.

Yup, totally uncontested...the 2nd to last one above, I'm seeing 40 yards of green and a safety not even IN the screen until late (looks like Reid slipped down a bit 45-50 yards out)? Almost all ending up in trail-mode and almost all with their backs to the QB/ball waiting to play on the ball ONCE it arrives (won't work against sure-handed WR's). This is, I believe, a technique coached up by our secondary coach here. INT's and PD's have dropped the past couple years...our leaders are a rookie and a backup, now-late-starter in Brock. Rogers, Brown and Whitner? We're still very good in points allowed and that is paramount BUT clearly, Fangio needs to mix things up better esp. on 3rd downs (i.e. if you blitz DON'T play off "44 yards.")
Originally posted by spraked:
Can you guys give some recommended reading for some of us that want to get more into this stuff.

There has been great insight from so many on here that this is really in open question. I am hoping to understand the concepts of both offence and defense better.

Thanks.

I'm of the school of thought that if you get to understanding the offensive concepts, you will more easily get the basics of defensive coverages. Here are some good articles I've found that detail these offensive passing concepts. If you get a chance to read these and some other articles you may see links to, check out the thumbnail posts that are posted in these film study threads and try to get a sense for what the 49ers are trying to do. This will also give you a sense for what the 49ers think the defense is trying to do to them.

Stretching a zone/triangles: basic strategies to beating zone coverage. Also search for these specific concepts that try to achieve a horizontal/vertical stretch: "smash", "hi-lo", "all curls", "curl-flat", "four verticals".

Good article (progression read vs coverage read)

MOFO vs MOFC (very important for QBs to make this read once the ball is snapped and is a big reason defenses shift their safties around right before the snap)

Long read on the three main passing attacks seen in the NFL: Which do you think the 49ers most resemble?

Beating man coverage is much more simpler to draw up as there aren't that many things you can do besides bunching formations, mesh routes, and excellent route running (double moves) with an isolated WR (lined up wide on an island). You can find little articles here and there about busting man coverage.
Originally posted by thl408:


Originally posted by 49erphan:
Thanks for showing that; I had wondered about how effective play action had been in slowing down the rush. It seems like the Packers - with Lacy as a strong running threat and Rodgers with his amazing quick and accurate throws - could do the same thing. Is there anything the 9ers can do schematically to deal with it?
I feel that 28 yard run by Mendenhall really messed up the 49ers in the head. After that run, they (ILBs) were biting on the play fake (as jonnydel mentioned on play#1) and so were some of the CBs all throughout the game. Just hypothesizing, but one of the reasons I think the 49er CBs bite on the play fake is because they play with a cushion. Playing with a cushion has its pros and cons. Pros are coverage disguise, ability to attack downhill on run plays, ability to see route combinations develop (since they are further back and can see more of the field), and the ability to read the QB's dropback to help gauge the depth of the WR routes. For example, seeing a three step drop probably means a quick pass, so get ready to jump a short route. However, having their eyes in the backfield also makes it more likely to fall for the play fake.

Against GB, they just have to work to make GB one dimensional, which I think is the 49er's goal coming into every game. But, if Lacy happens to rip off a big gain, don't allow it to mess with the CBs' heads too much. The defensive backfield has to continue to trust the front 7 to handle the run game and just concentrate on the WRs.


I can see how a play action fake to Lacey by Rodgers could cause problems for Bowman and/or Willis. I'm wondering, too, about how play action fakes affect Aldon Smith and Brooks - does it cause them to pause in their pass rush to make sure there isn't a receiver they need to drop back to cover? I suppose that depends on the defense called against a particular offensive play, but is there a general tendency of play action fake to a productive running back to slow down the outside linebacker pass rushes?
[ Edited by 49erphan on Jan 2, 2014 at 6:13 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
I'm of the school of thought that if you get to understanding the offensive concepts, you will more easily get the basics of defensive coverages. Here are some good articles I've found that detail these offensive passing concepts. If you get a chance to read these and some other articles you may see links to, check out the thumbnail posts that are posted in these film study threads and try to get a sense for what the 49ers are trying to do. This will also give you a sense for what the 49ers think the defense is trying to do to them.

Stretching a zone/triangles: basic strategies to beating zone coverage. Also search for these specific concepts that try to achieve a horizontal/vertical stretch: "smash", "hi-lo", "all curls", "curl-flat", "four verticals".

Good article (progression read vs coverage read)

MOFO vs MOFC (very important for QBs to make this read once the ball is snapped and is a big reason defenses shift their safties around right before the snap)

Long read on the three main passing attacks seen in the NFL: Which do you think the 49ers most resemble?

Beating man coverage is much more simpler to draw up as there aren't that many things you can do besides bunching formations, mesh routes, and excellent route running (double moves) with an isolated WR (lined up wide on an island). You can find little articles here and there about busting man coverage.

I know there's been a lot of talk about AR-type plays vs PS plays with regards to what we're actually running, but from my own observations combined with what I've been reading on here, wouldn't AR-type plays be evidence of coverage reads (2nd link) as there's really no reason to stare down a receiver when a QB should know in the first place where the receivers are going. Considering that we seem to call multiple-plays a lot in the huddle, combined with being really slow with the play clock and so many shifts and motions to manipulate the defense or to try to get them to tip their intentions off, it seems like Kaepernick is being schooled by Harbaugh and Roman to understand defenses as fast as he can possibly go at the moment (and which inexperience can rear its ugly head at times). I know that it was either Lynch or Gruden who mentioned this, that Kaepernick is sometimes too enamored by getting the perfect playcall and that it really slows the offense down when we're not actively seeking to slow it down.
Originally posted by BKpower:
I know there's been a lot of talk about AR-type plays vs PS plays with regards to what we're actually running, but from my own observations combined with what I've been reading on here, wouldn't AR-type plays be evidence of coverage reads (2nd link) as there's really no reason to stare down a receiver when a QB should know in the first place where the receivers are going. Considering that we seem to call multiple-plays a lot in the huddle, combined with being really slow with the play clock and so many shifts and motions to manipulate the defense or to try to get them to tip their intentions off, it seems like Kaepernick is being schooled by Harbaugh and Roman to understand defenses as fast as he can possibly go at the moment (and which inexperience can rear its ugly head at times). I know that it was either Lynch or Gruden who mentioned this, that Kaepernick is sometimes too enamored by getting the perfect playcall and that it really slows the offense down when we're not actively seeking to slow it down.
I've been thinking a lot about how much responsibility they give Kap at the line of scrimmage and how challenging it must be for a QB that was a raw as he was coming out of college.

However, on the flip side I think; how good could this kid become two or three years from now if he stays in the same offense and masters the pre-snap reads and shifts to find the right matchups? Most of the QB greats had the opportunity to sit in the same offense for a large part of their career. I don't think we've even begun to see Kaps best football, which is a scary thought when you consider his physical talents.

Harbaugh is really teaching him to diagnose defense and it should pay big dividends down the line.
[ Edited by SFsFinest on Jan 2, 2014 at 7:16 PM ]