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Coaching Staff Changes Watch

Coaching Staff Changes Watch

  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,385
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Sounds like inside the bubble group-think.

I'm just going to say this .....

Harbaugh has the potential to be a great coach and it would seem he has the potential to be closed minded that he can't truly evaluate the problem.

Harbaugh is a great coach and what exactly is the problem? Three straight NFC title games, a Superbowl appearance and has yet to win less then 11 games.
  • SaksV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 875
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Mangini going to the qb coach sounds assbackward initially, but Mangini has the capacity to tell Kaep on the sideline what the defenses are trying to do to him may be a plus since Kaep needs to develop that sense on recognizing the defense from play to play and game to game.

Interesting logic but why couldn't he have just done that this year?
Originally posted by SaksV:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Mangini going to the qb coach sounds assbackward initially, but Mangini has the capacity to tell Kaep on the sideline what the defenses are trying to do to him may be a plus since Kaep needs to develop that sense on recognizing the defense from play to play and game to game.

Interesting logic but why couldn't he have just done that this year?

Maybe Mangini a little more verse on our offense after 1 year with Roman. He's probably more capable of taking the qb coach position within the team. So you have 1 guy talking to Kaep on the sideline for the most part throughout the season. Instead like you may be suggesting, with Chryst and Mangini both on the sideline. I think that's just too much.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,260
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Sounds like inside the bubble group-think.

I'm just going to say this .....

Harbaugh has the potential to be a great coach and it would seem he has the potential to be closed minded that he can't truly evaluate the problem.

Harbaugh is a great coach and what exactly is the problem? Three straight NFC title games, a Superbowl appearance and has yet to win less then 11 games.

dude talent automatically won about 2/3s of our games, we were already a perennial 6-8 win team with Nolan and Singletary because of how stacked the D was. Harbaugh's coaching style and innovation approach did put us over the top but now all that motion, jumbo, and things that freaked teams out in 2011 and even part of 2012 is just another play to any of the top D's in the league, even some of the worse ones.

If we don't come into 2014 with a new gimmick, yes I used gimmick, whether it is going back to a 75%++ pro style offense, or going full retard with the spread like the Saints it'll just be another year of our talent crushing the will out of the team despite the fact that they know what play were trying to run. Then every once in awhile we'll get crushed because we've gotten too cute against D that knows all of our tricks.

I wrote a quality post about how Groupthink is likely the issue within Harbaugh's offense some months ago, probably lost to the abyss by now but heres how it is.....

Harbaugh doesn't need to prove he's a great coach, he's done things no other coach has done, he's simply incredible but what he does need to prove is that he can make the tough decisions when they need to be made. Have the humility to consider an offensive revamp, whether it is schematic or coaches, remember to scheme for teams weaknesses not just our strengths -- we too often just impose our will and it is what leads to our ground out, oh so close for comfort wins, when if we had just played to exploit a team we'd probably annihilate them.
Mangini would be a terrible choice for QB coach. Looks like Harbaugh wants to focus on the pre-reads and not the progressions and peripheral vision of the position.
Originally posted by sfout:
dear lord. I'm not sure what to think of this......

It's the expected outcome.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Sounds like inside the bubble group-think.

I'm just going to say this .....

Harbaugh has the potential to be a great coach and it would seem he has the potential to be closed minded that he can't truly evaluate the problem.

Harbaugh is a great coach and what exactly is the problem? Three straight NFC title games, a Superbowl appearance and has yet to win less then 11 games.

The problem is winning the big one. The next problem is how he wins.

Yes, these things matter in Niner land...please note the problems that Mooch had with the fanbase when he was coach.
I thought Mangini coached defense. I'm not sure wtf type of move this is. Hope it helps
[ Edited by lamontb on Jan 23, 2014 at 10:02 AM ]
The fact that Harbaugh would even consider Mangini as QB coach is further demonstration to me that Harbaugh's reputation as The Great Quarterback Whisperer is grossly over-rated. Did he seriously consider a guy who had never played the position, and was coming from the opposite side of the ball was going to help a clearly struggling Colin Kaepernick learn to read defenses and go through progressions? Would he have the technical expertise to help CK bring his delivery more over-the-top to allow him to be more accurate instead of his current tendency to "sail" the ball high due to this 3/4 sidearm delivery? smh

To the extent that a portion of his salary is the result of thinking that he is a great QB coach, he should be sending that portion of his salary to Oliver Luck. Yes, Andrew's father. The senior Luck was an NFL quarterback, and though not physically gifted enough to become a star, was highly regarded for his knowledge of the game and the position, and he passed that knowledge down to his son while he was still in high school. Last week I heard a reporter who is very knowledgeable about college football in the Bay Area told a story of a redshirt freshman Andrew Luck at Stanford calling audibles in scrimmage games against the first team defense. That certainly doesn't sound like Harbaugh had a great deal to do with the development of Luck. After all, Luck was considered the best QB prospect to come out of high school since John Elway, and he chose Stanford for the academics as much as football, according to reports.

CK needs a better QB coach but Eric Mangini is not the guy.
I'm more worried about losing Tomsula. Did a helluva job with our D-line and is being woo'd by Cleveland, last I heard. I think we'll keep Fangio, but there's supposed interest in Roman, which wouldn't break my heart. I think he's the most dispensable of the three.
Originally posted by LottOfDefense:
Mangini would be a terrible choice for QB coach. Looks like Harbaugh wants to focus on the pre-reads and not the progressions and peripheral vision of the position.

This. Hiring a defense guy that has no prior experience with the QB position to coach a QB that is struggling getting through his reads and reading the entire field is borderline bush league and could potentially be more asinine to Kap's developing than anything. Makes no sense.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Former NFL head coach Eric Mangini, who served as 49ers senior offensive consultant this season, was considered for a move to quarterbacks coach, sources told CSNBayArea.com on Wednesday.

One source said moving Mangini to quarterbacks coach and promoting quarterbacks coach Geep Chryst to offensive coordinator was an option for coach Jim Harbaugh's reshuffling of the coaching staff if the 49ers lost offensive coordinator Greg Roman. The source said he does not believe Harbaugh plans to make any changes.


http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/sources-mangini-considered-qbs-coach

Roman or Chryst with Mangini as the QB coach?

Baalke HAS to step in here...Harbaugh will do what he can to protect his philosophy on offense/system and his coaching staff to boot (as every good HC should) but I can't imagine Jed or Baalke sitting up in the press box after three years of evidence and clear patterns thinking, "Yeah, no question, our offense is fine. This is a championship offense that will bring home #6."
Originally posted by sfout:
I wrote a quality post about how Groupthink is likely the issue within Harbaugh's offense some months ago, probably lost to the abyss by now but heres how it is.....

Harbaugh doesn't need to prove he's a great coach, he's done things no other coach has done, he's simply incredible but what he does need to prove is that he can make the tough decisions when they need to be made. Have the humility to consider an offensive revamp, whether it is schematic or coaches, remember to scheme for teams weaknesses not just our strengths -- we too often just impose our will and it is what leads to our ground out, oh so close for comfort wins, when if we had just played to exploit a team we'd probably annihilate them.

Agreed but that's not Harbaugh's job...that's Baalke's.
mangini as the qb coach?.....was garo yepremium not available?
[ Edited by crabman82 on Jan 23, 2014 at 10:51 AM ]
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Sounds like inside the bubble group-think.

I'm just going to say this .....

Harbaugh has the potential to be a great coach and it would seem he has the potential to be closed minded that he can't truly evaluate the problem.

Harbaugh is a great coach and what exactly is the problem? Three straight NFC title games, a Superbowl appearance and has yet to win less then 11 games.

dude talent automatically won about 2/3s of our games, we were already a perennial 6-8 win team with Nolan and Singletary because of how stacked the D was. Harbaugh's coaching style and innovation approach did put us over the top but now all that motion, jumbo, and things that freaked teams out in 2011 and even part of 2012 is just another play to any of the top D's in the league, even some of the worse ones.

If we don't come into 2014 with a new gimmick, yes I used gimmick, whether it is going back to a 75%++ pro style offense, or going full retard with the spread like the Saints it'll just be another year of our talent crushing the will out of the team despite the fact that they know what play were trying to run. Then every once in awhile we'll get crushed because we've gotten too cute against D that knows all of our tricks.

I wrote a quality post about how Groupthink is likely the issue within Harbaugh's offense some months ago, probably lost to the abyss by now but heres how it is.....

Harbaugh doesn't need to prove he's a great coach, he's done things no other coach has done, he's simply incredible but what he does need to prove is that he can make the tough decisions when they need to be made. Have the humility to consider an offensive revamp, whether it is schematic or coaches, remember to scheme for teams weaknesses not just our strengths -- we too often just impose our will and it is what leads to our ground out, oh so close for comfort wins, when if we had just played to exploit a team we'd probably annihilate them.

I totally agree with this post .....

It's pretty clear that Nolan and Scott McCloughan (Scout-in-Chief), were a great GM/Scout pair. These two were NOT a coach/GM pair. They're good talent evaluators - and it helps to pick at the upper end of the draft each year with an under performing squad. Nolan was a freshman coach who never was a HC at any level and then was replaced by ANOTHER freshman coach who was never a HC at any level. So OF COURSE you're going to have an under performing team, but what you did have was a pretty good scouting department and some good folks (like Tom Gamble) who were involved with personnel. Schemes? Game-day coaching? Position coaches? Terrible. Nolan and then Singletary had no clue on who to bring in and all were either not qualified to run a pro-style offense (Hostler), was only a temp looking for another job (Turner) or just wasn't right for the personnel for on the team (Martz).

In comes Harbaugh and my expectations were that in the first and second year we would see the first iteration of a developing offense. It would reintroduce common sense and schemes would challenge opponent match-ups game by game. As the NFL chess match evolved, as defensive and offensive coordinators adjusted, Harbaugh would adjust also being a former NFL QB and a disciple of the WCO.

I've seen this on defense but it simply isn't happening on offense. And is it better than the extremely low bar set with Nolan and Singletary? Of course. But again that bar was very low. As the NFL adjusts, now we'll see if he can really coach 'em up and making things happen - as the team ages, get through injuries to its key players, can it win big games regularly against opponents better than they are on the talent scale? Can this team be regularly out-coached?

I think the great ones have answered these questions regularly over their careers without qualification regardless of "talent" - they win with who they have because of superior schemes, not only because of superior talent.