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Analysis from the Atlanta Falcons game coaches film

Originally posted by NCommand:
Next to Culliver, Brock is the most physical CB we have...and obviously, he knew with an all-out blitz coming, his jam wasn't going to free him up inside under 2 seconds. He'd most likely position himself slightly inside and jam hard (he has 5 yards to contest). If Rogers too was up jamming the WR inside, even if the outside WR did somehow run through Brock and catch the ball on the designed slant, he'd run right into the congestion of Rogers/inside WR.

Sorry, I just don't buy it here. We have a tendency that when we bring pressure, we play off and give simple outlets to QB's IMHO.
I also don't think it wise to jam with no help at all over the top in this situation. A missed or ineffective jam results in a sure TD.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Next to Culliver, Brock is the most physical CB we have...and obviously, he knew with an all-out blitz coming, his jam wasn't going to free him up inside under 2 seconds. He'd most likely position himself slightly inside and jam hard (he has 5 yards to contest). If Rogers too was up jamming the WR inside, even if the outside WR did somehow run through Brock and catch the ball on the designed slant, he'd run right into the congestion of Rogers/inside WR.

Sorry, I just don't buy it here. We have a tendency that when we bring pressure, we play off and give simple outlets to QB's IMHO.
I also don't think it wise to jam with no help at all over the top in this situation. A missed or ineffective jam results in a sure TD.

That's the risk you take when you blitz though...the flip side is you only have to cover/jam for about 1.5 seconds. And we're talking about extremes here...Brock may not even have to jam but merely, play tight up at the LOS and slightly line up inside (to also cover the WR if he changes routes and heads to the corner of the EZ). That tight look pre snap is often times enough for Ryan to think the play won't work as designed and take a TO or take the big sack.
Originally posted by NCommand:
That's the risk you take when you blitz though...the flip side is you only have to cover/jam for about 1.5 seconds. And we're talking about extremes here...Brock may not even have to jam but merely, play tight up at the LOS and slightly line up inside (to also cover the WR if he changes routes and heads to the corner of the EZ). That tight look pre snap is often times enough for Ryan to think the play won't work as designed and take a TO or take the big sack.

Also, I think if the corners were playing to jam on that play, Ryan probably goes to White on the other side on a fade vs T. Brown....which probably would have been a TD. lol
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Originally posted by NCommand:
That's the risk you take when you blitz though...the flip side is you only have to cover/jam for about 1.5 seconds. And we're talking about extremes here...Brock may not even have to jam but merely, play tight up at the LOS and slightly line up inside (to also cover the WR if he changes routes and heads to the corner of the EZ). That tight look pre snap is often times enough for Ryan to think the play won't work as designed and take a TO or take the big sack.

Also, I think if the corners were playing to jam on that play, Ryan probably goes to White on the other side on a fade vs T. Brown....which probably would have been a TD. lol

LOL. If I was Ryan, I'd call off the AR2 and go to White every down over Brown!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Dsoto87:
You may have answered this already NC but how do you differentiate what you call an AR play from Kap just making a good pre snap read and knowing who exactly has the favorable match up?

It seems as if you and Johnnydel have Polar opposite views on a few plays.

We agree in principal; we both agree we run both PS and the two types of AR passing designs (and run a bunch of ad lib plays when neither work). The difference is that he believes we predominately run PS passing plays with a few AR's mixed in while I believe we predominately run an AR passing game with a few PS mixed in. That said, since Crabtree has come back, I have noticed that we are running more and more PS plays (naturally). The AR designs put more onus on HaRoMan (calls into the huddle based on what Roman is seeing up in the booth) and "execution" of everyone to make the play work while the PS passing plays put more onus on CK to go through progressions (if they are built in like a WCO play) OR on CK to hit the best receiving option in-play (like a Spread design). In both, CK is afforded the option to choose the best AR or PS play based on the coverage he is seeing at the LOS. Sometimes it can be difficult to differentiate the two b/c CK almost always hits his primary target (PS) or the designed AR right away. What tends to tip off an AR design is by watching the non-AR's and their decoy (or physical) routes in their efforts to assist the AR in getting open. You can also tell sometimes by how quickly the AR fires off the LOS (knowing he's the target). You can also watch CK's head and body angle as to who he is going to all the way in most cases whether it's a designed AR1/2 or PS primary read. This is why he has been labeled a "one read QB." Some is by design and other times it's b/c the primary target in a PS play is open/best option right away. If the AR is covered or the primary read in the PS is bottled up or CK hesitates (this happens), CK is instructed to be off and scrambling and either pick up yards with his legs or buys time to complete an ad lib pass (more common than most realize); the good news is that with Crabtree, Boldin and VD, we have become MUCH better at ad libs plays. Defenses can no longer just lock up on just VD or Boldin. Also, the scramble itself can be a tip it was a designed AR play b/c if it was a PS play, CK "should" be hanging in the pocket as long as he can to wait for that 2nd and 3rd receiving option to open up. Another tip off is how the receivers act if that AR isn't hit right away...some are down field blocking not aware the play has broken down, some are half-assing it on the other side of the field done with their part of the play, still running deep go-routes in efforts to get the underneath AR the ball. We're getting better at recognizing the ad lib plays but the design has this natural flaw built into it.
The way I disagree though is that your assumption on an AR play by Kaep's body position when he drops back doesn't take into account pre-snap reads. Also, just because he looks one way on a route doesn't mean the other side wasn't available, or even that there weren't 2nd and 3rd options on that side of the field.

A LOT of the WCO passing game are half field reads. What I mean, is that the QB is told to "pick a side' with a progression for whichever side he chooses, 1-3. This is the type of play where I said Kaep had a 1-2, 1-2 side progression.

Here's why I disagree on the amount of "AR plays we run:

This is from Jon Gruden's playbook:



Now, if this play hits the Z on the slant you would call this an AR1 play. However, if you look at the playbook, you see there are 5 eligible receivers, note the qb is told to "pick a side" with his 1-2 progression and the HB being the outlet. It's a half field read. The WCO is full of plays like this that are half field, pick a side, reads. What I was saying about the Boldin curl play, is that, like this play, the primary and secondary reads are to the slant and quick out, but, because of the pre-snap read, he moves to his 3rd option to Boldin on the curl. It looks like he goes straight to Boldin by play design, however, to me, it looks like he made a pre-snap adjustment.
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
This is fantastic stuff! You may get this question a lot, but what exactly is your connection to the NFL game, let alone football? Or is this just a hobby for you and the webzone happens to be your platform?

What ever the case, I applaud you on such detailed analyses.

We'll call it an extreme hobby . I've been wanting to get into coaching for years and just haven't had the right timing in my life yet, so, I try and absorb as much information and analysis as I can.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
The way I disagree though is that your assumption on an AR play by Kaep's body position when he drops back doesn't take into account pre-snap reads. Also, just because he looks one way on a route doesn't mean the other side wasn't available, or even that there weren't 2nd and 3rd options on that side of the field.

A LOT of the WCO passing game are half field reads. What I mean, is that the QB is told to "pick a side' with a progression for whichever side he chooses, 1-3. This is the type of play where I said Kaep had a 1-2, 1-2 side progression.

Here's why I disagree on the amount of "AR plays we run:

This is from Jon Gruden's playbook:



Now, if this play hits the Z on the slant you would call this an AR1 play. However, if you look at the playbook, you see there are 5 eligible receivers, note the qb is told to "pick a side" with his 1-2 progression and the HB being the outlet. It's a half field read. The WCO is full of plays like this that are half field, pick a side, reads. What I was saying about the Boldin curl play, is that, like this play, the primary and secondary reads are to the slant and quick out, but, because of the pre-snap read, he moves to his 3rd option to Boldin on the curl. It looks like he goes straight to Boldin by play design, however, to me, it looks like he made a pre-snap adjustment.

Jonnydel, the play you show above from the playbook is a flat/slant combo. I believe what VD/Boldin ran was the curl/flat (zone coverage buster). Curl/flat is a basic route combo designed to target the LB in the flat. If the LB takes the flat, target the curl. If the LB drops in depth and takes away the curl, then target the flat (VD). On the first pass play of the game for the 49ers, the play you and NC are discussing, I feel it was a curl/flat combo and the LB chose to take away VD, so Kap makes the right decision to target the curl (Boldin). I believe the defense was playing cover3 here.

To expand, the other side of the field is utilizing a mesh concept to bust man coverage (this is shown in the diagram above from the playbook). Kap choose the correct side (zone buster) and the play was designed to be a quick hitter.
[ Edited by thl408 on Dec 27, 2013 at 9:22 AM ]
Originally posted by Toughniner:
Jonny, great as always.

But all this pre-snap-adjusting tells me how difficult it will be for the Niners to succeed in Seattle, where the noise takes away the verbal communication. I don't know whether hand signals are es effectiv (i.e. limiting the options).

Can you say something about this?

Every one of our audibles have hand signals built in. This is probably gonna look a little bit like greek, but, here's an example from an NFL playbook:



Note how each play has a word audible and a hand signal to correspond. There's a lot of these. They will also sometimes change the hand signals week to week, and also include "dummy" calls if they're playing a familiar opponent.

As far as crowd noise, we can use hand signals(you'll see it on the broadcast by Kaep slapping his wrist or the heart sign he'll show on his chest, those kind of things.

Here's an example from the game in Seattle:



They had just run a play and he was using the hand signal for the very next play off of that.

As far as the pre-snap reads, we use a lot of "hard" counts, which is the "huh HUT" you hear when we don't snap the ball to try and get the defense to show what it's really doing. There is a way to do this with the silent count.

The silent count, the RG looks back at the QB(in shotgun) and the QB will lift his leg, then the RG turns back around and taps the center's leg to let him know the QB has given the snap. The center will wait a half second, and snap the ball. The defense can see this, so we'll vary which time we snap the ball from this, 1st, 2nd, 3rd time to use as a hard count.
Originally posted by thl408:
Jonnydel, the play you show above from the playbook is a flat/slant combo. I believe what VD/Boldin ran was the curl/flat (zone coverage buster). Curl/flat is a basic route combo designed to target the LB in the flat. If the LB takes the flat, target the curl. If the LB drops in depth and takes away the curl, then target the flat (VD). On the first pass play of the game for the 49ers, the play you and NC are discussing, I feel it was a curl/flat combo and the LB chose to take away VD, so Kap makes the right decision to target the curl (Boldin). I believe the defense was playing cover3 here.

To expand, the other side of the field is utilizing a mesh concept to bust man coverage (this is shown in the diagram above from the playbook). Kap choose the correct side (zone buster) and the play was designed to be a quick hitter.

I totally agree, I'm not saying this is the same play, I'm merely using an example of how the WCO splits the field into a half read, but there really is 5 viable receivers.

We actually ran this exact play against Tampa, and it was called an AR1 to VD.

As far as the coverage, what made me think man, is you'll see the corner jump on Crab's slant immediately, as well as the alignment of the LB's, it looks like they're playing cover 1 man-lurk. With the LB lurking. The OLB is almost heads up with Frank in the backfield in his pre-snap alignment, which to me, says man coverage.
[ Edited by jonnydel on Dec 27, 2013 at 9:28 AM ]
Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do disagree with this being an AR1 type of play. I thought the play looked familiar so I went back through a few of my playbooks and found this play in Holmgren's 1991 49ers playbook.


It's a slightly different formation, but, you see McDonald is running what is the "h" back route and Frank being the "F" back and staying in pass pro. McDonald takes the dotted line version of that route. You see Crab's the "x" was the primary read with the "2" being on the "H". I'm assuming that the hitch is the 3rd read on the play. This also shows how Kaep is going through his progressions pre-snap as well.

Just went back to read this breakdown again. Jonnydel, I feel you got it right on with this diagram above (Holmgren's playbook), when it comes to the route combo VD/Boldin ran. It's a curl/flat. With what Vance/Crabs ran, I think you got it right with the second diagram you posted (from Gruden's playbook).
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Every one of our audibles have hand signals built in. This is probably gonna look a little bit like greek, but, here's an example from an NFL playbook:



Note how each play has a word audible and a hand signal to correspond. There's a lot of these. They will also sometimes change the hand signals week to week, and also include "dummy" calls if they're playing a familiar opponent.

As far as crowd noise, we can use hand signals(you'll see it on the broadcast by Kaep slapping his wrist or the heart sign he'll show on his chest, those kind of things.

Here's an example from the game in Seattle:



They had just run a play and he was using the hand signal for the very next play off of that.

As far as the pre-snap reads, we use a lot of "hard" counts, which is the "huh HUT" you hear when we don't snap the ball to try and get the defense to show what it's really doing. There is a way to do this with the silent count.

The silent count, the RG looks back at the QB(in shotgun) and the QB will lift his leg, then the RG turns back around and taps the center's leg to let him know the QB has given the snap. The center will wait a half second, and snap the ball. The defense can see this, so we'll vary which time we snap the ball from this, 1st, 2nd, 3rd time to use as a hard count.

Thank you again, Jonny! I appreciate it!!!

I figured that there might be corrosponding hand signals, but I thought, they might not be as precise as verbal audibles. Therefore "the source for mistakes" is bigger....

Hope, I was able to make myself clear. I am not a native speaker....
[ Edited by Toughniner on Dec 27, 2013 at 9:32 AM ]
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Vernon still can't remember where to line up
Great breakdown in post #57. If the 49ers line up in their 22 personnel, defenses better load the box or else. Now that Crabs is getting his mojo back, defenses will be in a conundrum. Single coverage on VD or Crabs, or risk a big run by not loading the box?
Great read as always.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do disagree with this being an AR1 type of play. I thought the play looked familiar so I went back through a few of my playbooks and found this play in Holmgren's 1991 49ers playbook.


It's a slightly different formation, but, you see McDonald is running what is the "h" back route and Frank being the "F" back and staying in pass pro. McDonald takes the dotted line version of that route. You see Crab's the "x" was the primary read with the "2" being on the "H". I'm assuming that the hitch is the 3rd read on the play. This also shows how Kaep is going through his progressions pre-snap as well.

Just went back to read this breakdown again. Jonnydel, I feel you got it right on with this diagram above (Holmgren's playbook), when it comes to the route combo VD/Boldin ran. It's a curl/flat. With what Vance/Crabs ran, I think you got it right with the second diagram you posted (from Gruden's playbook).

I think this is the closest, the only difference is that McDonald more goes straight out to the flat from the "H" back position, the concept and progression would remain the same though