Screen Pass Argument

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Okay, as soon as someone with first-hand knowledge says "yeah, they practice it all the time but they just can't do it", then I'll believe it. Otherwise, what it looks like to me is a team that rarely practices it, to wit they've only called a few 14 games into the season, and SHOCKER, they haven't gone too well.

Do you think maybe teams like the Saints and Chiefs might devote a decent chunk of practice time to perfecting screens? Again, it's a play that requires feel and timing, something very hard to do when you don't practice it and then in the heat of a game, just run a single screen as some one-off play Roman decides to try.

Maybe they just think it's a lost cause & spend time practicing plays they think will work better. Maybe tge Saints & Cheifs coaching staffs vakue tge screen more & practices it more often. We'd all like to see more sucessful screens but for some readin its not clicking

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Alex and Aarron Rodgers get 500 yards with screens , slants and checkdowns. WHY NOT KAEP?

They have WAY better OL's...oh wait, that's a fallacy as well.

Bottom line: Offensive philosophy. Remember, our own media had to remind Harbaugh during a press conference that perhaps we should consider using the backs more as receivers. Ever since then, every single RB/FB has been flaring out instantly or on delays. We need to NOW have another press conference and ask him why we don't actually PASS to them (as they are wide open). Baby steps, baby steps!

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Timing has to be right between the QB and back. Goodwin is the only OL that I think is underwhelming, as far as getting out wide.

True. Could be that certain lineman lets the defensive lineman in too fast & it just screws up the timing. I've been calling for screens all the time. But i really think they just aren't good at it for some reason. Wish they could get it right.

Oh no question about this. I have seen our idiot OL not even make contact with a DL... just pause and then start running wide. I'm yelling, "no you ***hole! You need to jar the dude's momentum, at least! then take off!"

... but like others have said, apparently we need to practice these a lot or these veteran OL can't comprehend their assignment.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Timing has to be right between the QB and back. Goodwin is the only OL that I think is underwhelming, as far as getting out wide.

True. Could be that certain lineman lets the defensive lineman in too fast & it just screws up the timing. I've been calling for screens all the time. But i really think they just aren't good at it for some reason. Wish they could get it right.

Oh no question about this. I have seen our idiot OL not even make contact with a DL... just pause and then start running wide. I'm yelling, "no you ***hole! You need to jar the dude's momentum, at least! then take off!"

... but like others have said, apparently we need to practice these a lot or these veteran OL can't comprehend their assignment.

So, so, SO true! Another big issue is that with teams stacking 9-10 guys in and around the box, when we try one, there are always 3 defenders aleady knifing through between the pulling OL and tackling us for a loss...before we even get started. So we have to call them at the right times as well.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Not true...as is pointed out in subject article, complete myth.

Gregg Cosell said the same thing as me

Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
The Tukuafu signing was a signal that we were going to throw a LARGE amount of screen passes

Does he still weigh 300 lbs?

Originally posted by ninerfan52:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Not true...as is pointed out in subject article, complete myth.

Gregg Cosell said the same thing as me

So I guess he's at their practices and knows how often they work on screens, if at all? Did he mention it's not as simple as OL lets DL rush, throw ball to RB? There's a feel to the screen, timing that has to be there between the OL collectively with each other and also the QB and RB.

Did he offer to reconcile how the 49ers have O-linemen who are agile and athletic enough to get out front on sweeps and stretch plays, yet somehow can't handle blocking on a screen? Let me guess, did it go something like "they're road-graders built to do straight-ahead power run-blocking and can't do screens"? But Greg Cosell is infallible, so there's that I guess.

Again, as soon as I hear someone on the inside say that yeah, we practice it all the time but we just can't do it, then I'll change my tune. Until then, I'm of the opinion they're not a highly-regarded weapon in the arsenal, thus are given little attention in practice and practically ignored in games. Well, there was that one screen to Anthony Dixon...

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Until then, I'm of the opinion they're not a highly-regarded weapon in the arsenal, thus are given little attention in practice and practically ignored in games. Well, there was that one screen to Anthony Dixon...

This!

Screens are called to take advantage of the aggressiveness of the defense to go after the qb. But our run offense usually makes the defense stay back and be discipline because we usually pass out of run formations. Can't throw the screen to our RB because their linebackers are already keying on our RB for the run. So Smith/Kaep try to throw a screen he sees the RB with a linebacker lurking close by ready to blow up the RB as soon as he catches the screen pass, he just as well throw it to the ground to blow up the play.

Originally posted by Psinex:

I've been saying this from the first game with Green Bay. The Niners offense or namely Kaepernick seem to be allergic to throwing the ball on screen passes where the receivers/backs are sitting just beyond the line of scrimmage or on a rollout. These were plays that you would routinely see Joe Montana or Steve Young throw to Roger Craig or Tom Rathman. They are plays that you see Alex run with Kansas City. That's why I wish Kaepernick would take this stuff:

Give me a break.

Alex runs them in KC, but we didn't bother trying it with him here either. How do you take that fact and try to blame Kaepernick?

Come on.

Alex ran this offense and had no success with screens for as long as Kap has - 1.5 seasons.

Screens are a part of KC's offense. They aren't a part of Roman's. You can't seriously blame or credit either QB for that.

One of the funniest things I see posted is that the 49ers never run screen plays. It's either a case of hyperbole, not watching every game, or not being able to identify a screen pass when it happens. So I browsed through a bunch of games and here are the screen passes I was able to notice. I stopped looking after the WAS game. It became quite clear why the 49ers don't run screen passes to the RB.

1. Let's start with a flanker screen (Hunter). Staley is solid in getting out to the perimeter.


2. Screen right to Hunter. Notice how slowly Iupati and Goodwin get to the perimeter. #52 LB would have blown this play up even if Kap had pulled the trigger.


3. Middle screen. A nice 9 yard gain.


4. Screen left to Gore. Not good.


5. WR screen to Boldin. Even if Kap thrown it well, and Boldin caught it, the play is blown up. More evidence Kyle sucks at blocking.


6. Dixon screen right. 3 yard gain. Watch Iupati.


7. Boldin screen. 4 yard gain on 3rd & 1. Not bad.


8. Screen to KW. 7 yards.


9. Middle screen to Gore. 7 yard gain.


10. KW screen. Notice how slow the OL (Goodwin/Iupati) get out to the perimeter. 5 yard gain.


11. LMJ screen! Boone/Goodwin struggle to get to the perimeter.



So middle screens work, when compared to screen left/right. WR screens work somewhat. Instead of running screens to the RB, I'd rather just run a draw play. Both types of play work to slow down the pass rush. We talk about putting players in a good position to succeed. Running screen left/right would not be putting the 49er players in a position to succeed.

Makes me wonder what are the down and distance for these screens. My guess would be half or more of them are called to regain yardage on 10+ yds to go for the 1st.

thl408 you deliver!

I think people just expect our screens to go like this:



And this:



All day...

Originally posted by verb1der:

thl408 you deliver!

Epic!