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2013 - Week 15: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
The thing about this view is it isnt terribly indicative of line of sight, Vernon for example could EASILY be covering up Kaps view of Crabs at that time.
The birds eye of a play can really make you see things that arent always there for the qb.

You sir are correct. I do see that it looks like vd is right in kaeps line of site to crabtree. Regardless of why he missed him then I thought he did a great job at extending the play and finding crabs later.
Originally posted by bALLSOhARD:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Lol praising Kaep for missing Crabtree on his first move and forcing him to improv in order to get a TD? Haha that's funny. Almost as funny as saying we are in good shape for the future because of Baalke.


Sigh.

That's one of the stupidest posts I've read in awhile...

A TD is 6pt no matter how it's scored... You really have to be nitpicking to say the TD wasn't as good as a TD would have been if he hits Crabs for in the first move...

And then saying one of the best GMs in the league isn't good...

Damn that's a lot if fail in a short post!!!


Don't bother.

I think the point is that you cant necessarily praise or chastise the result of the play. 6pts is indeed 6pts!!!! But what needs to be analyzed is the deasion. From my point of view he looks dead Crab and doesnt pull the trigger. Something that has been present all year long. I even think Crab see's him looking at him claps his hands in frustration that Kap didnt throw him the ball. This is indicative of Kap's inability or better yet progressing ability to make anticipation throws. This issues is often highlighted within the red zone. Ultimately the result of something doesnt always tell the hole story.


My response had everything to do with the poster, not the post.
I think one of the things Kap has gotten ingrained in him from Harbaugh (and probably learning from Alex Smith as well) is to not turn the ball over. Last week Kap got bit by not paying enough attention to that coaching when he threw the interception near the goal line on a pass meant for Crabs. It was a big mistake and I suspect that he wanted to make sure he didn't blow another red zone opportunity like that, so it might be he was more cautious than he needed to be. Of course, in the case of that play, it could easily have been because he is still having trouble assessing the action fast enough to make the best play, but he is a natural gunslinger and it's probably going to be better over his career if he tempers that gunslingerness with caution - especially because he has the talent to just make s**t happen even if he doesn't make the best choice.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
My response had everything to do with the poster, not the post.

yea saw that after i posted.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Yeah...but a still doesn't tell the whole story.

Crab wasn't the first read. If Kap had turned and started throwing almost immediately upon turning his head...then yes...Crab was open. However...he still kept the play alive and waited for Crab to break open for a TD.

My response to 9erReign was more about how his responses ALWAYS look almost exactly like that one than anything else. Tough for me to take anything he says seriously.

The bolded is correct. Boldin (left side of formation) was Kap's first read. By the time Kap moved over to Crabs, Crabs had already made his cut. At this point, I feel it's one of those cases where "if the WR is open, it means he isn't open". The window closed fast and the improv was necessary. I have proof in the all22. Will post in a different thread once I get it into GIF format.
Always enjoy your posts Marv, the other thing I might add (only getting to rewatch now as I type) is that I think Kap is beginning to get very good with the draw plays to Gore, he seems to be selling them well.
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
The thing about this view is it isnt terribly indicative of line of sight, Vernon for example could EASILY be covering up Kaps view of Crabs at that time.
The birds eye of a play can really make you see things that arent always there for the qb.

If, in this scenario, Davis is indeed covering up a wide open Crabtree, then you sir must be Russel Wilson. This is Kaep we're talking about. From that far back, at that angle, knowing the play call and rolling right, this should have been the throw, which was still there 2-3 steps past this photo. You gotta sling it...

Like Crabs keeps saying on the sidelines--- What's a brotha got to do to get a pass thrown his way?
I think it is ridiculous to demand perfection from a third year QB who really only has a year and some change of experience as a starter. Just like it was ridiculous that so many people assumed Kaep was going to make our garbage WRs better. He is learning and winning games in the process. If he missed his opportunity and still got the touchdown who cares. If Aaron Rodgers does that nobody would question the play. In so sick of the, "We won but," "It was a TD but." Criticizing Baalke after he's gotten us multiple all pros/ probowlers. Even Harbaugh after three consecutive double digit win seasons is greedy and unappreciative. What kind of fans are we?
Originally posted by jvangeystel:
I think it is ridiculous to demand perfection from a third year QB who really only has a year and some change of experience as a starter. Just like it was ridiculous that so many people assumed Kaep was going to make our garbage WRs better. He is learning and winning games in the process. If he missed his opportunity and still got the touchdown who cares. If Aaron Rodgers does that nobody would question the play. In so sick of the, "We won but," "It was a TD but." Criticizing Baalke after he's gotten us multiple all pros/ probowlers. Even Harbaugh after three consecutive double digit win seasons is greedy and unappreciative. What kind of fans are we?

There are a few posters that whine over everything but they don't represent the majority. I'm sure those posters whine about everything outside of football as well. It's in their human nature/DNA.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by jvangeystel:
I think it is ridiculous to demand perfection from a third year QB who really only has a year and some change of experience as a starter. Just like it was ridiculous that so many people assumed Kaep was going to make our garbage WRs better. He is learning and winning games in the process. If he missed his opportunity and still got the touchdown who cares. If Aaron Rodgers does that nobody would question the play. In so sick of the, "We won but," "It was a TD but." Criticizing Baalke after he's gotten us multiple all pros/ probowlers. Even Harbaugh after three consecutive double digit win seasons is greedy and unappreciative. What kind of fans are we?

There are a few posters that whine over everything but they don't represent the majority. I'm sure those posters whine about everything outside of football as well. It's in their human nature/DNA.


This.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Kap: Another steady game...but there were some real "wow" plays in there. The first deep pass to Vernon was nuts. Vernon couldn't get to it but he would have had he run full out on the entire pattern. The fact that he was scrambling forward and just winged it like that...damn. The MOST impressive plays to me tho were both to Crabtree. First the TD where he waited for Crab to break open and the second was the first down when almost no human being on the planet would be able to complete the pass. Running away from the rush, moving farther behind the LOS, throwing a ball on the run like a dart ACCURATLY to Crabtree on the sideline and placed well enough for Crab to pick up the extra 1 or 2 yards he needed. Seriously, how many QBs in the NFL can do that?

There were still some bad throws. This isn't a Kap lovefest. There were still times when he looked like a young QB. Games like this though just make me wonder how good he's gonna be when he figures it all out.


2) Frank: No joke...Frank needs a rest. I hope they limit him monday night against the Falcons. They can't sit him completely because they need to win, but they need to play Hunter and James more. We can't afford for him to go into the postseason on tired legs and bum ankles.


3) Crab: Getting better every week. Looking more and more like the Crab we all know and love. The frustration play was inexcusable. You don't do that. I do understand it a bit tho. He spent all season rehabing. He gets SOOOOOO overly excited in every game. He needs to calm down and play under control. I'm just so happy to see him right now because it looks like he can be a far bigger contributor than I ever envisioned this year.


4) Aldon: Damn he's good. Even though he didn't get any sacks last week, he was consistantly puching the pocket. The D's gameplan was to keep everyone in their lanes in order to keep Wilson in the pocket so he wasn't going to play like he usually did. He still put Okung on skids several times and pushed him right into Wilson. This week he was playing more like himself and was in a position to get a sack on several occasions. The Bucs were getting the ball out quickly but Aldon still was a broken tackle from 3 sacks and hurried Glennon many more times. He is healthy and motivated and turning it on at the right time.


5) Vernon: Can we all just realize what we are watching? I think we all are just used to seeing him streak past LBs and safeties because he's been doing it for so long. We may never see his like again in a 49er uniform. In his first few years, I never thought he would become a premiere TE. I just thought he was too robotic and didn't run his routes well enough. I was right about those being his problems, but he has transformed himself into something every team in the NFL is envious of...a true TE who can get deep in a hurry. I hope the guy plays forever because I dunno how we would ever replace him.


6) Baalke: This is a continuation of a conversation I was actually having on Seahawks.net. In a thread over there, many Seahawks fans simply see the age of our roster vs theirs and assume that they will stay relevant much longer and will eventually be contending with the Rams for the division instead of us. I can see how they get there. The Seahawks do in fact have a younger nucleus of players. The problem with the argument tho is that it makes the assumption that the rosters remain static. The players that are good will just get older and there will be no replacements. We have already seen that this simply isn't the case. Say what you want about the WR position, but Baalke has fortified just about every other position. He let Goldson walk and got a younger, cheaper, and BETTER player in Reid. They let Sopoaga walk and got BETTER and less expensive with Williams and Dorsey. Looney looks like a decent player. Kilgore will eventually replace Goodwin. Brock looks like a future starter and they have ALREADY extended him. Peeps who spend so much time thinking about the WR position just don't get it. Baalke is one of the best GMs in the NFL and we should be happy to have him.


7) Harbaugh and Texas: Seriously? Not gonna happen


8) Miller: Hope he's not hurt too bad. Boobie will fill in for him, but Miller was becoming a good outlet for Kap.


9) James: Pretty happy with him back there catching punts. He hasn't made too manyb mistakes and there is always a chance he's gonna do something with it when he gets a chance. He always seems to squeeze down the sideline for a few yards when it looks like nothing's there.


10) In their hands: Here we go. All they need to do from this point forward is WIN. I guess you can say that at any point in the season, but my point is that if they just win out here they may be able to avoid Seattle until the NFCCG. Thats the game I want. Nothing would make me happier then sending those fans packing in that game. Its a TALL, TALL, order and may not be doable, but I want to see them get that shot anyway.

LOL.. I thought that this was going to be about the Tampa game. Nice work!!

As far as the Niners having a shot in Hagland? I would just rather not see the Chickens at all. I know everyone is all confident about beating them in The Stick, but until that kick went through, I was deeply concerned about the outcome. When the TV showed the Crabs fumble coming out I thought for sure we were screwed. Yeah, if they can hang like that in The Stick, it is no doubt a tall order in Century Link Marvin. Nothing is impossible until it isn't possible. Can Team Frisco do it? Hell YES. Is it likely? I would not be putting any money on it, not with the game there. I have a whole new view of the Chickens going to back to last year. The team they are playing with now is not the pretty-boy, Candy-ass finesse team that had no run defense and couldn't tackle. They are the nemesis and right now, they are a hair better than the Niners. We'll see what happens down the road with that team, but I am more concerned about how they are handled this year.
[ Edited by Rathmanator on Dec 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM ]
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Lol praising Kaep for missing Crabtree on his first move and forcing him to improv in order to get a TD? Haha that's funny. Almost as funny as saying we are in good shape for the future because of Baalke.

Interesting take. I can't tell if any WR was open before Kap had to scramble on that TD catch. There is such a thing as making it harder than it had to be. Similar to when a WR bobbles a catch he should have snared, but it's considered a great catch. Still, the fact he was able to scramble to buy time, then throw accurately on the run made it a nice play.

You can't tell that Crabs is wide open off his original break? Seriously are you visually impaired?

This is exactly how I saw it too...all you have to do is watch CK (and nothing else) and you'll see the AR every time:

Ad lib @ 7:15 Boldin @ X position, VD stayed in to block from the Y and Crabtree @ the Z position. It looked like the design was to hit Crabtree right away as the AR1. It was a fake pitch to James who runs left (to help isolate Crabtree) while CK rolls right again. Again, CK doesn't hit him right away (not sure why he's hesitating so much as he too was open) so CK and Crabtree ad lib and get the TD anyhow. It's a terrible design IMHO b/c Miller also ran through the line in the middle while CK instantly starting rolling right...didn't fool anyone for even a second. That said, Crabtree had his man beat (we rely heavily on individual matchups). If Roman was smart, he probably could have run this same exact play (minus the fake toss left)...getting the D flowing to the right and then passing back to James (even a pitch to James if the DE doesn't come up field) in that flat while Boldin did what he did...slants in and picks off/blocks (i.e. seals the edge) out the defender(s). James was wide open. Smart, safe play on 1st down inside the 10.

Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/168162-greg-roman-really-good/page132/#Mi2K0TRPp7YxcRpx.99
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 17, 2013 at 3:42 PM ]
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
Originally posted by mickey49:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Kap: Another steady game...but there were some real "wow" plays in there. The first deep pass to Vernon was nuts. Vernon couldn't get to it but he would have had he run full out on the entire pattern. The fact that he was scrambling forward and just winged it like that...damn. The MOST impressive plays to me tho were both to Crabtree. First the TD where he waited for Crab to break open...
The thing that bugged me about that play, and I know this is splitting hairs because we got the touchdown anyway, is that it looked like Crabtree was open way earlier in the route and Kap looked right at him and didn't throw it. There's still some hesitancy there throwing to open guys for some reason. Like I said, we got the touchdown out of it anyway with Crabs running around the endzone, but I don't think it had to be that hard, lol...

I thought the same thing. Crabs was open from the start, but Kap just didn't see it or was not confident enough to throw it right away. Luckily , he worked his way open again and Kap made a very impressive throw. I think this was an illustration that Kap is sometimes hesitant to make the throw earlier, even though his target is either open or about to be. Experience will give him the confidence to make those decisions sooner.

I think Kap's first read was to the left. Crabs was open as Kap was reading left side and then as he started scrambling right Crabs was covered again before freeing himself.

No way...that was a fake design toss to the left to James while Boldin crashed down...it's a smoke and mirrors play to get the defense reacting left while the AR1 (Crabtree) shakes open on the right.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Yeah...but a still doesn't tell the whole story.

Crab wasn't the first read. If Kap had turned and started throwing almost immediately upon turning his head...then yes...Crab was open. However...he still kept the play alive and waited for Crab to break open for a TD.

My response to 9erReign was more about how his responses ALWAYS look almost exactly like that one than anything else. Tough for me to take anything he says seriously.

The bolded is correct. Boldin (left side of formation) was Kap's first read. By the time Kap moved over to Crabs, Crabs had already made his cut. At this point, I feel it's one of those cases where "if the WR is open, it means he isn't open". The window closed fast and the improv was necessary. I have proof in the all22. Will post in a different thread once I get it into GIF format.

No way! Boldin crashes down on a defender and throws him to the ground (not exactly an option here)...the look left is only to fake a pitch to James and to get the defense reacting that way while CK and Crabtree slide right in unison for a simple pass play. But again, CK hesitates on first chance. There are no other receiving options. VD stays in to block and you can see Miller's route is just designed to hold in LB's as well (IMHO).
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 18, 2013 at 8:23 AM ]
any chance we bring Owen Marecic in to replace Miller?