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Inability regarding wr's

Originally posted by kem99:
First, if you have to spend the first half of your thread explaining how it isn't the same as other threads...it is probably pretty close to being the same thread...but that aside...

Second, the main basis for your thread is that 49ers could not get anything out of Jenkins, Baldwin or Lockette. This seems like ground that has been covered A LOT but did I miss something where someone else had gotten much out of these 3. Baldwin has some history in KC but fell so out of favor in a matter of months with Andy Reid that they traded him for Jenkins straight-up. Think about that given what you and all 49er fans know of Jenkins' struggles since being drafted. I believe since the trade, Jenkins has 5 catches and Baldwin has 3 catches, hardly a significant difference given the small sample size and the fact the Chiefs have been having more injuries to their skill players while the 49ers have been getting healthier since the trade. Moreover, can you really judge Baldwin given that he came over in the middle of the season, had to learn a new system and develop a rapport with Kaep on the fly where its been shown, to date, that it can take a while for Kaep to get comfortable with a new receiver, especially a younger receiver.

As for Lockette, like Baldwin, he has all the "combine" numbers -- size, speed, etc., yet didn't put up big numbers in college, has been largely relegated to being on a team's practice squad and has bounced back and forth from the Seahawks to the 49ers to the Bears (I think) and back to the Seahawks...without making an significant impact anywhere. His natural athletic ability has got him a NFL "career" but you can't criticize the 49ers for not developing him when no one else has shown an ability to develop him, not to mention that a host of NFL teams have failed to show any interest in him whatsoever.

As for Williams, he had shown promise as a slot receiver (recall the long pass from Kaep in the Bears game on Monday night last year) but obviously it didn't work out this year. Given the loss of Crabtree in May and Williams returning as the next most experienced receiver in the system and his having had some prior success, it makes sense that the 49ers gave him a good amount of time before cutting the cord. Interestingly enough, Williams was immediately picked up by the Chiefs and was on their active roster before blowing out his knee again, so apparently Andy Reid at least thought there was something there.

The Gordon stuff has been pretty well hashed over. Obviously, Gordon has been putting up monster numbers lately and there is absolutely no correlation that could be made to show that he would be putting up those same sorts of numbers here. He'd be coming over even later in the season than Baldwin and have to learn the system on the fly, which is a totally different system that Norv Turner's numbers based system. And, there's still the issue that with 1 slip-up, Gordon could be gone for a year and he's had an issue every year since his junior year in college, including this year when he was suspended to start the season. And, that's assuming that the Browns really wanted to trade him, which is questionable given that Gordon appears to be very talented yet no team in the NFL managed to trade for him, including the 49ers. Even if you don't have a lot of faith in the 49ers with WR's, look at how the rest of the league acted with respect to Gordon and it tells you all you need to know about his red flags.

With that in mind, I'm still waiting for someone to name for me the last WR that was traded at the trade deadline that made a significant immediate impact along the lines some seem to think Gordon would have made. The fact there hasn't been one should tell you something as well.

And, the last thing you want the 49ers to do is to listen to the Webzone and make moves based on what is said here! lol

The real issue here is that Crabtree got hurt in May and the 49ers missed on Jenkins. If Crabtree doesn't get hurt, there such an immediate problem and Jenkins and Williams might even still be on the team as 3rd or 4th receivers.

If you want to criticize the 49ers as to WR's, you can make a much better case that perhaps they have not placed a high enough priority on WR as a position, so they passed on Jeffrey, Allen and perhaps others to fill other needs. That's a fair criticism and obviously something that they will likely address in the up coming draft/off-season.

Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned Vincent Jackson as an example of the Chargers developing WR's, do you know how many catches he had his first year after being a 2nd round pick? Three. Yep, that's it, 3 and he played in only 8 games. If that occurred here, you'd be calling him a bust. The second year he had 27, though 6 were for TD's. In his third year, he had 41 catches but his TD's dropped to 3. It wasn't until his 4th year that he truly blossomed and became a #1 receiver with over 1,000 yards and 7 TDs. It took some time, as it did for Crabtree to fully develop. Those on the Webzone bashing the 49ers regarding developing WR's might want to remember that.
Originally posted by Wrathman:
Originally posted by ChazBoner:

LOL!
WTF?
It is the look on her face that takes this to a new, creepier ... but believable level.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
It also has to do with who is doing the scouting. They supply Baalke w/the info for him to look at and evaluate.

Our WR coaching is piss-poor. BUT even if we had Gordon - would he actually get used by Roman?

Speaking of scouting, the niners fired the scout that scouted AJJ pretty soon after the pick lol.
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Mod's this is different from the other Baalke thread

This is focused just on the inability with regard to wide receivers

There is the Josh Gordon Thread in NFL Talk (he has 1400 yards, what could have been if there was a trade on the table)

The Keenan Allen talk

We just signed Wylie, there was the thread about Lockette now performing back up again in Seattle

We drafted AJ Jenkins who will go down in 49ers lore as probably one of the worst WR draft choices ever, up there with Bassmaster Woods.

Crabs is not a bust but we swapped AJJ for Baldwin. Baldwin is 6'4 with 4.47 speed. He actually performed a little in KC

Why couldn't the coaches get anything out of Baldwin, or AJJ, or Lockette.

Like others have said, they went with Kyle for 8 weeks all the while Ninertalk was saying he was garbage, trade for Gordon, play Baldwin, etc.

We have 2 Wrs under contract for next year.

Is it coaching ala Jerry Sullivan before where he had "his guys."

We have so many picks but WR has become such a weakness, although having Boldin, Crabs, and Manningham healthy is a good trio.

Did they just think it would be those three?

I liked what little I saw from Patton but now he will be inactive from here on out.

I think this is a huge problem and more fundamental that will prevent this team from getting to its max capacity.

Vernon had 11 TDs and is 3rd in the league in TDs. That is great and not a problem.

Why can't we find and develop WRs when teams like SD can (Allen, and before that guys like Vincent Jackson)

Don't hate, participate


I AGREE WITH YOU 1000% THAT WE HAVE HAD SOME WR ISSUES........

Is it coaching, is it Baalke? It maybe both but......

I think WR's are tough to draft. Not many college teams run a pro system, and it's not like the NFL. So I think there's a huge bust factor. Every team has had a problem with WR's, not just the niners.

Baalke is a great judge of talent. He has done an excellent job since he has come to the Niners. He has kept the quality players, picked up the right free agents and let go of good players.

LETS LOOK AT A FEW PICK UPS

WR

AJ Jenkins - TOTAL BUST.....I admit it, but is it Baalke's fault that he couldn't measure heart. Who knew that he would have been a compete PUSS...and refuse to train with Jerry Rice!!!!! WOW. Maybe Baalke could have gotten rid of him then.

Quinten Patton - looked great in Preseason. I think he's got a good future. HOWEVER, I think Baalke steps up and goes BIG in the draft next year. I don't think he wants to get the STAIN of AJ Jenkins off his hands.

6th rounder for Anquon Boldin - Genius Move!!!!

Ted Ginn for a 5th round pick - WHY THIS GUY COULDNT THRIVE in our system. I don't know. He was a great returner and maybe the coaching staff saw him more as a returner and not a WR. BEATS ME WHY HE COULDNT DO WELL HERE. He is making an impact in Carolina, and we could use the speed, but I think they were counting on Kyle Williams to develop and he didn't.

Lockett - Not worth talking about yet.
Randy Moss - Good pick up, he played well for us, but wish he would have stayed one more year. But Randy Moss was a timebomb, do you really want him on your team?



JUDGE OF TALENT

Carlos Rogers - Great pick up.
Donte Whitner - leader of the Defense, great pick up for us.

Navarro Bowman vs Takeo Spikes.....GREAT MOVE. Navarro could be the best player on the team.
Delanie Walker vs Vance McDonald.....This was a cap move. The jury is still out on McDonald and Walker is the better player right now, but I don't think the 49ers could have kept him at 17? 21 Million dollars.
Dashon Goldson vs Eric Reid....A lot of people on the board panned the Eric Reid pick, hell even Kiper didn't like the pick, but he traded up to get Reid who has been BETTER than Goldson. I don't know if I would have predicted that.
Sopoaga vs Dorsey - Good move for value.

Tony Jerod Eddie - nice FA pick up probably better than Rickey Jean Francois
Demarcus Dobbs - another nice pick up

Colin Kaepernick vs Alex Smith - Obviously the jury is still out on this, but Kaepernick has so much potential and he flashed more than Alex in the first two years than Alex did. And we got him in the second round after five qbs were taken.

Do I have to mention Aldon Smith.....TOTAL STUD. Great Player. Maybe the best pass rusher the niners have had since Fred Dean. STUD PICK!!!!

FA's

2011 draft - GREAT
2012 draft - NOT SO GOOD (looney and LaMichael - but we stocked up for the 2013 draft
2013 draft - LOOKING VERY GOOD SO FAR
2014 draft - Unknown but we are stacked!


Baalke for 90+% of his picks has been outstanding. WR has been a weakness for the Niners for sure, but he's going to hit on it. Oh yeah. I think he will get it right.


Don't forget that Baalke ran the 2010 draft as well and picked up some very good players.