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Inability regarding wr's

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,505
Originally posted by Hopper:
Baalke doesn't have a good eye for Wideouts, here we go again.

If this is about drafting, the thread should be locked or should be moved.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda threads are moot point. We drilled these to death, it's time we moved on and stop worrying about useless crap.

Let's just agree on, Baalke is a great GM except for picking pass catchers. Maybe our luck will shift in the future, but for right now... our receiving corps is very good and is among the best in the league when utilized correctly. Crabtree, Boldin and Davis rock. Manningham is good too, hopefully Roman can utilize them better without abandoning Gore and co. Since we NEED to run the ball this winter so we can hoist the Lombardi in New Jersey when all is said and done.
His problem is drafting WRs, but when he finds a vet like Boldin or MM he nails it. But I cant see us spending high money on more than 2 WRs, and Boldin and Crabs should be the 2 IMO.

Johnny Morton is terrible at evaluating WRs. He fought for Ronald Johnson, didn't work out. AJ Jenkins could still turn out well. Never know. He never got a fair chance IMO, but I tried to reason with you guys, never listened. But it's mute now. Baldwin was a 1yr guy, likely cut after 2013, saves over $1.3M
We have such major problems, we've been to the NFC Championship and 5 yards from a SB win in the last two years. In last years' SB we had two 100 yard receivers in the game. This year our receivers are finally healthy and we're headed in the right direction.
Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
I think his problem drafting WRS is the Misconception that we need to draft "speed" recievers. I disagree with the need for Speed wrs. You need recievers who can separate using route running and strength and route anticipation. Look at Crabs nowdays, he was never a burner yet he can create space with his size and strength. And back in the day look at Jerry Rice, Cris Carter and Michael Irvin, none of those guys were burners yet each one of those guys was a GAMEBREAKER by creating space and route running. Alshon Jeffrey last 12' draft coulda and shoulda been a 49ers. And then Baalke had Keenan Allen fall in our laps at #55 and he takes a Guy called Ronald MCDonald. Shoulda took Allen and then TE Jordan Reed afterwards just like my MOCK.

Allen is obviously a hit, but Ashlon Jeffrey took some time to develop.... people around here don't have the patience for that, including yourself, Mcdonald and Patton are already being written off. Oh, and you mean the Jordan Reed who can't block in our scheme, who has missed the last three games and has been shut down for the season today because he has chronic concussion issues.
The problem drafting and developing WR's goes back beyond Baalke...I see it more of a team issue rather than blaming TB. Crabtree's been the exception, and I believe Patton will be another good one. Hopefully they haven't given up on Baldwin...guys with his size and speed are hard to find. Some of it's coaching...some of it's scheme...some may just be bad luck. FWIW, Baalke's highly rated among the NFL's GM's...we came within an eyelash of winning the SB and have a chance to go back again. The only way to remedy the WR issue is to keep drafting and coaching them...no team hits on all their WR's...can Baalke do better...I think so, but wouldn't call it his black hole.
I suppose putting a line break after every sentence is better than big, blocky paragraphs.
Originally posted by ChipDouglas510:
Originally posted by ChazBoner:


I hate you Chaz, I just almost spit soda out my nose


Right, I just blew milk out my nose….and I wasn't even drinking any! Wow, just wow!
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,505
Originally posted by RishikeshA:
We have such major problems, we've been to the NFC Championship and 5 yards from a SB win in the last two years. In last years' SB we had two 100 yard receivers in the game. This year our receivers are finally healthy and we're headed in the right direction.

Good points.

Also Baalke has only drafted 4 wide receivers.

That sample is not very big.
Baalke will hit with a couple WR's very soon , the dry spell has to end sooner or later ....I don't want to blame Coach Morton, but one of our homegrown WR's has to grow into a dangerous weapon soon
It also has to do with who is doing the scouting. They supply Baalke w/the info for him to look at and evaluate.

Our WR coaching is piss-poor. BUT even if we had Gordon - would he actually get used by Roman?
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
It also has to do with who is doing the scouting. They supply Baalke w/the info for him to look at and evaluate.

Our WR coaching is piss-poor. BUT even if we had Gordon - would he actually get used by Roman?

Or Keenan Allen even. Chances are he would not even have seen the field or been thrown to, given Harbaugh's / Ronam's / Kaep's reluctance to play / target a rook (hi Vance).
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,040
Has any team in the NFL been good at drafting WRs? They are a pretty hit and miss position. Some notable recent busts: Charles Rogers was a #2 overall pick. Reggie Williams went #9. Troy Williamson was #7. Ted Ginn Jr. was at #9. David Terrell drafted #8. Peter Warrick #4. Roy Williams #7. Mike Williams #10.
[ Edited by Jcool on Dec 13, 2013 at 8:39 AM ]
Originally posted by ChazBoner:

LOL!
WTF?
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 585
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Mod's this is different from the other Baalke thread

This is focused just on the inability with regard to wide receivers

There is the Josh Gordon Thread in NFL Talk (he has 1400 yards, what could have been if there was a trade on the table)

The Keenan Allen talk

We just signed Wylie, there was the thread about Lockette now performing back up again in Seattle

We drafted AJ Jenkins who will go down in 49ers lore as probably one of the worst WR draft choices ever, up there with Bassmaster Woods

Crabs is not a bust but we swapped AJJ for Baldwin. Baldwin is 6'4 with 4.47 speed. He actually performed a little in KC

Why couldn't the coaches get anything out of Baldwin, or AJJ, or Lockette.

Like others have said, they went with Kyle for 8 weeks all the while Ninertalk was saying he was garbage, trade for Gordon, play Baldwin, etc.

We have 2 Wrs under contract for next year.

Is it coaching ala Jerry Sullivan before where he had "his guys."

We have so many picks but WR has become such a weakness, although having Boldin, Crabs, and Manningham healthy is a good trio.

Did they just think it would be those three?

I liked what little I saw from Patton but now he will be inactive from here on out.

I think this is a huge problem and more fundamental that will prevent this team from getting to its max capacity.

Vernon had 11 TDs and is 3rd in the league in TDs. That is great and not a problem.

Why can't we find and develop WRs when teams like SD can (Allen, and before that guys like Vincent Jackson)

Don't hate, participate

First, if you have to spend the first half of your thread explaining how it isn't the same as other threads...it is probably pretty close to being the same thread...but that aside...

Second, the main basis for your thread is that 49ers could not get anything out of Jenkins, Baldwin or Lockette. This seems like ground that has been covered A LOT but did I miss something where someone else had gotten much out of these 3. Baldwin has some history in KC but fell so out of favor in a matter of months with Andy Reid that they traded him for Jenkins straight-up. Think about that given what you and all 49er fans know of Jenkins' struggles since being drafted. I believe since the trade, Jenkins has 5 catches and Baldwin has 3 catches, hardly a significant difference given the small sample size and the fact the Chiefs have been having more injuries to their skill players while the 49ers have been getting healthier since the trade. Moreover, can you really judge Baldwin given that he came over in the middle of the season, had to learn a new system and develop a rapport with Kaep on the fly where its been shown, to date, that it can take a while for Kaep to get comfortable with a new receiver, especially a younger receiver.

As for Lockette, like Baldwin, he has all the "combine" numbers -- size, speed, etc., yet didn't put up big numbers in college, has been largely relegated to being on a team's practice squad and has bounced back and forth from the Seahawks to the 49ers to the Bears (I think) and back to the Seahawks...without making an significant impact anywhere. His natural athletic ability has got him a NFL "career" but you can't criticize the 49ers for not developing him when no one else has shown an ability to develop him, not to mention that a host of NFL teams have failed to show any interest in him whatsoever.

As for Williams, he had shown promise as a slot receiver (recall the long pass from Kaep in the Bears game on Monday night last year) but obviously it didn't work out this year. Given the loss of Crabtree in May and Williams returning as the next most experienced receiver in the system and his having had some prior success, it makes sense that the 49ers gave him a good amount of time before cutting the cord. Interestingly enough, Williams was immediately picked up by the Chiefs and was on their active roster before blowing out his knee again, so apparently Andy Reid at least thought there was something there.

The Gordon stuff has been pretty well hashed over. Obviously, Gordon has been putting up monster numbers lately and there is absolutely no correlation that could be made to show that he would be putting up those same sorts of numbers here. He'd be coming over even later in the season than Baldwin and have to learn the system on the fly, which is a totally different system that Norv Turner's numbers based system. And, there's still the issue that with 1 slip-up, Gordon could be gone for a year and he's had an issue every year since his junior year in college, including this year when he was suspended to start the season. And, that's assuming that the Browns really wanted to trade him, which is questionable given that Gordon appears to be very talented yet no team in the NFL managed to trade for him, including the 49ers. Even if you don't have a lot of faith in the 49ers with WR's, look at how the rest of the league acted with respect to Gordon and it tells you all you need to know about his red flags.

With that in mind, I'm still waiting for someone to name for me the last WR that was traded at the trade deadline that made a significant immediate impact along the lines some seem to think Gordon would have made. The fact there hasn't been one should tell you something as well.

And, the last thing you want the 49ers to do is to listen to the Webzone and make moves based on what is said here! lol

The real issue here is that Crabtree got hurt in May and the 49ers missed on Jenkins. If Crabtree doesn't get hurt, there such an immediate problem and Jenkins and Williams might even still be on the team as 3rd or 4th receivers.

If you want to criticize the 49ers as to WR's, you can make a much better case that perhaps they have not placed a high enough priority on WR as a position, so they passed on Jeffrey, Allen and perhaps others to fill other needs. That's a fair criticism and obviously something that they will likely address in the up coming draft/off-season.

Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned Vincent Jackson as an example of the Chargers developing WR's, do you know how many catches he had his first year after being a 2nd round pick? Three. Yep, that's it, 3 and he played in only 8 games. If that occurred here, you'd be calling him a bust. The second year he had 27, though 6 were for TD's. In his third year, he had 41 catches but his TD's dropped to 3. It wasn't until his 4th year that he truly blossomed and became a #1 receiver with over 1,000 yards and 7 TDs. It took some time, as it did for Crabtree to fully develop. Those on the Webzone bashing the 49ers regarding developing WR's might want to remember that.