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Analysis from Seahawks Game coaches film

Easily the best thread on the Webzone! That's for doing all this work and sharing your analysis! Fantastic stuff!!!
I would like your impressions of why the Niners had difficulty in the Red Zone with the Hawks. Did the Hawks out scheme them or was it it poor play selection or poor operation. It seemed to me that they had opportunities to get first downs in the Red Zone but a number of small mistakes stopped them rather than Seattles defense. The one shoe top tackle of Kaep excluded. It seems that the Niners get a little sloppy in the Red Zone.
Wow this is really really great thread and information. Thank you so much.

I have a question that you might be able to provide perspective to.

When we see a play where Kap is fixated on his comfortable target, without progressing, do we have any idea whether his tendencies here are below normal, normal or above normal for the typical qb?

So it's easy to pull out a couple of plays and say look how messed up the reads were, but it just might be that this is a pretty normal behavior for an nfl qb in a game situation.

SO, say, a typical NFL QB might miss progressions say 50% of the time on pass attempts, and kap is at, say 44%, so he would be ahead of the game.

or it might be that an NFL qb might miss reads say 30%, so kap would be behind the curve.

Can you offer some opinions about what is the "expected" successful scan rate, and what Kap might be doing?

thanks. I am struggling to find perspective on this issue.
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I would like your impressions of why the Niners had difficulty in the Red Zone with the Hawks. Did the Hawks out scheme them or was it it poor play selection or poor operation. It seemed to me that they had opportunities to get first downs in the Red Zone but a number of small mistakes stopped them rather than Seattles defense. The one shoe top tackle of Kaep excluded. It seems that the Niners get a little sloppy in the Red Zone.

That was frustrating.... Kaep was so close. That would have changed the total complexion of the game.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Wow this is really really great thread and information. Thank you so much.

I have a question that you might be able to provide perspective to.

When we see a play where Kap is fixated on his comfortable target, without progressing, do we have any idea whether his tendencies here are below normal, normal or above normal for the typical qb?

So it's easy to pull out a couple of plays and say look how messed up the reads were, but it just might be that this is a pretty normal behavior for an nfl qb in a game situation.

SO, say, a typical NFL QB might miss progressions say 50% of the time on pass attempts, and kap is at, say 44%, so he would be ahead of the game.

or it might be that an NFL qb might miss reads say 30%, so kap would be behind the curve.

Can you offer some opinions about what is the "expected" successful scan rate, and what Kap might be doing?

thanks. I am struggling to find perspective on this issue.

So, the biggest thing you look at is completion% and how many throws are incomplete by a poor throw/drop to coverage. Overall, like I said at the beginning of this thread, Kaep played a pretty good game. However, to win down the stretch there are certain reads he has to make. Many of his completions were first option throws. meaning, the way the play was designed, it was designed to get that guy open against cover 3 or man. He did a good job of when the first read wasn't there of either extending the play or by taking off. There were about 5-6 plays where he missed open guys because of failing to go through progressions. There were some plays where Seattle did play great defense. However, watching the film. Seattle did not do anything exotic in that game. It was pretty much, cover 1 or cover 3. Those reads should be easier to make pre and post snap. You look for alignments and consistency from film study. I'm not saying he's a below average QB, but, when you get in the playoffs you have to be able to make these reads and progessions. This is why Peyton and Brees are so good.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
This will show How Seattle scored their first TD



Seattle loves the zone stretch run to the left side. Here they line up with 3 receivers to the left and the TE on the line to the right. The niners show a quarters coverage look which brings Carlos Rogers in tight.



Seattle goes stretch run to the right and Ray McDonald(highlight by the red arrow) doesn't stay at home, trying to collapse down. Lynch reads McDonalds collapse and cuts back to the open area for a 6 yard gain



From the endzone you see how this leaves a blocker to hit willis and how much of a hole is opened. Rogers and Brooks end up making the tackle.




Seeing McDonald collapse, Seattle runs the exact same play with 2 differences. The niners show the same defense, and the hawks show 3 receivers to the left, but this time they have a tight end in the slot with a receiver out right. This pulls Carlos Rogers out wide.



Again McDonald collapses down on the stretch left play. This time, Seattle runs Wilson out right to pull Brooks out, since the previous play Brooks and Rogers made the tackle, Seattle removed them from the play. You can see the gaping cutback lane for Lynch, who takes it in for the score.

It is worth noting that after that play McDonald played much more disciplined against the stretch run.

When the Niners play sound, fundamental defense they are great. McDonald should stay at home to the outside shade of the lineman, he's trying to cover the gap responsibility of Bowman.

Very impressive analysis. Some of the best i've seen on here.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Now I will show how Seattle scored it's 2nd TD



Here the niners are playing a soft 2 zone. Meaning the safeties are responsible for the 2 deep halves, the corners will drop about 10 yards back outside, the linebackers will cover short middle and Brooks drops towards the flat/qb contain.

Seattle pulls a run fake and Reid bites BIGTIME. He abandons his zone for run support. You can see Whitner on the top of the screen dropping into his deep half


Here you see Willis turned and saw Reid(highlighted by the red arrow) was out of his zone and tries to give chase. Rogers, when he turned his hips, saw Reid had jumped the PA and had to run with the receiver down the field leaving a wide open Luke Wilson(TE)



Rogers has to come off his man, try and close, and make the tackle on a big TE in open space. That's a tough task for anyone, so I don't blame him for missing the tackle. From there Wilson goes in to score.

If Reid stays home, Rogers can peel off his receiver and jump the TE route.

Reid is an outstanding safety and did play very well throughout this game. But, busted coverages like this can knock you out of the playoffs and playoff teams know how to take advantage.

Like I said in my previous post. When we play sound, fundamental defense, we are probably the best defense in the league.

Big thanks for touching on this play. There was a stat in the Reid thread that stated he was never burned for a TD and when I read that I immediately thought of this play. If Reid was playing a robber role (fake cover2, come down to jump a shallow route), Whitner would have slid to the middle of the field. The fact that Whitner did not slide over to the middle of the field suggests that it was Reid who was supposed to stay with his assigned zone (half deep zone). I reserved judgement because I also wasn't sure if Willson was supposed to be Patrick Willis' assignment since Willis immediately turned to run after Willson after Willson had already ran by Willis. I thought Willis bit too hard on the play action.

This is a test .GIF for this play. Still learning how to do this with proper quality. This play sucks so I'm not showing the end of it
[ Edited by thl408 on Dec 11, 2013 at 2:59 PM ]
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Now I will show how Seattle scored it's 2nd TD



Here the niners are playing a soft 2 zone. Meaning the safeties are responsible for the 2 deep halves, the corners will drop about 10 yards back outside, the linebackers will cover short middle and Brooks drops towards the flat/qb contain.

Seattle pulls a run fake and Reid bites BIGTIME. He abandons his zone for run support. You can see Whitner on the top of the screen dropping into his deep half


Here you see Willis turned and saw Reid(highlighted by the red arrow) was out of his zone and tries to give chase. Rogers, when he turned his hips, saw Reid had jumped the PA and had to run with the receiver down the field leaving a wide open Luke Wilson(TE)



Rogers has to come off his man, try and close, and make the tackle on a big TE in open space. That's a tough task for anyone, so I don't blame him for missing the tackle. From there Wilson goes in to score.

If Reid stays home, Rogers can peel off his receiver and jump the TE route.

Reid is an outstanding safety and did play very well throughout this game. But, busted coverages like this can knock you out of the playoffs and playoff teams know how to take advantage.

Like I said in my previous post. When we play sound, fundamental defense, we are probably the best defense in the league.




and people blamed WILLIS for this play JUST because we all saw him trailing. . Us fans dont know s**t until the tape is looked at
Originally posted by vrabbit:
I loved this, AJ and I will be talking about Gore again this week and I've already done a review of some of Gore's big plays against the Seahawks. If you could take a look at these two plays:

1st and 10 at SEA 34(Shotgun) F.Gore up the middle to SEA 30 for 4 yards (E.Thomas, K.Wright).
--> end of the 1st quarter
1st and 10 at SF 26F.Gore right guard to SF 34 for 8 yards (R.Sherman, E.Thomas).
--> early in the 2nd quarter

I'd be interested to see if you see what I see RE: Gore's vision (and cutbacks)

Here's my take on the first run you asked about. As you will see, Gore's ability to see the cuts and make the cuts are elite. I think we all know that. What I will show might give you even more appreciation for Frank.



Here we're running the zone read. Goodwin and Snyder get a combo block on mebane at the DT spot(he lined up at the 1 technique, being on the strong shade of the center) which calls for a double team block from the guard. The 8 man front, with a combo block, leaves 2 defenders who won't be blocked. Really this play should go for no gain. Chancellor(highlighted with blue arrows) stays at home in position to take on Miller or keep contain. Frank sees the 2 linebackers who won't be blocked and sets up his lineman. He starts to go behind the combo block of Goodwin and Snyder.



It's hard to see from this angle but Frank's initial move forces the backside linebacker to move right in pursuit. As soon as he sees the linebacker move that way he cuts back behind Goodwin(Frank's behind all those guys in the yellow circle)



When Frank cuts back it gets the backer moving back to the left and Snyder comes off his block and gets on #50, which Frank cuts again behind Snyder



Here you see where Frank gets tackled. In the end he only gets 4 yards but he shouldn't have gotten any. He makes 3 cuts in a very short span setting up his blockers and seeing the blocks. Very few backs in the league can even do this with that kind of vision.
1 read wonder.
do you have the run where Franks hits the pile then flies out the other side for a gain of 15 or so when everybody thought he was stuffed?
Originally posted by jonnydel:
true, but, with the underneath coverage it takes away the back shoulder throw, making Kaep, if he takes that throw, go over the top. The Corner is going to know this and Maxwell knows this and plays his coverage right for the over the top. That's why I'm saying the throw is insanely difficult to make and he really shouldn't have taken the shot. He had room to run, a 3 yd gain is still better than a pick.

it was all in the throw. too tentative. on releasing it you could see him aiming it and not throwing it out there.

Crab has maxwell beat, he's playing underneath, over the top could not have made it to the left corner of the end zone near the goal line which is where he should have laid it out.

if he throws it out there, maxwell has 2 options, grab or hold. because Crab has him beat and is great at positioning his body to keep defenders at his back.

Which is why when the back shoulder throw arrived, Maxwell had to come back to it while Crab who obviously isn't on the same page keeps going forward expecting the pass to be like last weeks where it drops into his hands for the td.
Nice work jonnydel! You need to do this for every game.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
So, the biggest thing you look at is completion% and how many throws are incomplete by a poor throw/drop to coverage. Overall, like I said at the beginning of this thread, Kaep played a pretty good game. However, to win down the stretch there are certain reads he has to make. Many of his completions were first option throws. meaning, the way the play was designed, it was designed to get that guy open against cover 3 or man. He did a good job of when the first read wasn't there of either extending the play or by taking off. There were about 5-6 plays where he missed open guys because of failing to go through progressions. There were some plays where Seattle did play great defense. However, watching the film. Seattle did not do anything exotic in that game. It was pretty much, cover 1 or cover 3. Those reads should be easier to make pre and post snap. You look for alignments and consistency from film study. I'm not saying he's a below average QB, but, when you get in the playoffs you have to be able to make these reads and progessions. This is why Peyton and Brees are so good.

Totally in agrrement that SEA does not do anything exotic with their coverage schemes. Like you stated, very straight up cover1 or cover3. Rely on the ferocious pass rush, then grab/tug/claw and hope the refs get tired of throwing the flag.

I'd like to get your thoughts on the 49ers coverage schemes. They seem very exotic to me. I see them playing pattern match type coverage. My hypothesis is that they (Fangio) have their CBs play so off (large cushion) in order to read and diagnose the patterns that are developing in front of them, then react accordingly. This takes super smart DBs. I often see a zone look that morphs into man coverage as the routes develop. This is very opposite of 'straight up'. Not to derail this thread from the SEA game. Perhaps we can touch on this later.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
and people blamed WILLIS for this play JUST because we all saw him trailing. . Us fans dont know s**t until the tape is looked at

Guilty as charged. The reason I thought it was on Willis was from how he turned and hustled towards Willson. I was not sure if Willis had bit too hard on the play fake, then realized his man just ran past him, or if he ran hard because he realized "holy s**t no one is in that part of the field!".