Analysis from Seahawks Game coaches film

Originally posted by NCommand:
Here is a decent example of our AR1 (team passing design). The AR here is clearly Boldin (CK looks nowhere else). Here you'll see Crabtree run a go, corner route. He cuts to the corner JUST as Boldin makes his break inside while the ball is delivered right on time. This route by Crabtree and his cut to the corner puts Boldin's DB on pause...he hesitates to either go with Crabtree or stay with Boldin. Gore flaring out also pulls the underneath LB off Boldin (just in case he was thinking of turning and running with Boldin). You can even see Crabtree's head angle...he's watching Boldin the whole way on when to make his break to the corner. He finally looks back to see if the pass was coming and if not, time to break back to the QB for an ad lib play.

BTW: How open was McDonald in the middle of the field? Roman, come BACK to that play later! Make him the AR next time!

my thing with this is that it's no different from any other qb who has made a pre snap read and diagnosed who should be the #1 target on a play.
and then that target is open so they get them the ball.

if your first read is open throw it, don't pass it up to go to another possible read..
but that's where the progressions come in. the only problem i have is that at times there is only 1 option, and the others are decoys, that's unacceptable

like on the play you're commenting on, i believe if crab was not open as quick as he was, he would have worked his way to macdonald in the center of the field.
but
he was open so he got the ball.
i can't be too mad at that. we just need multiple options on every passing plays no more decoys and he can work through progressions that are there instead of hoping that the only 2 and sometimes only 1 option is actually successful at getting open on the particular play

WOW! Just WOW! Great Job. Thanks for posting all of this, very very educational and exciting.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
my thing with this is that it's no different from any other qb who has made a pre snap read and diagnosed who should be the #1 target on a play.
and then that target is open so they get them the ball.

if your first read is open throw it, don't pass it up to go to another possible read..
but that's where the progressions come in. the only problem i have is that at times there is only 1 option, and the others are decoys, that's unacceptable

like on the play you're commenting on, i believe if crab was not open as quick as he was, he would have worked his way to macdonald in the center of the field.
but
he was open so he got the ball.
i can't be too mad at that. we just need multiple options on every passing plays no more decoys and he can work through progressions that are there instead of hoping that the only 2 and sometimes only 1 option is actually successful at getting open on the particular play

Agreed. other's are more obvious esp. the AR2's. We can argue about whether this was a pre-determined one-read (AR1) or a PS passing play where CK had really, 3 true progresion passing options and the coverage dictated the pass (in this case, to Boldin). In this case, it may have been VD (deeper), then Boldin and then McDonald. If this was one of those plays, FANTASTIC b/c CK got it right...hit the receiver underneath just as the deeper route occupies two DB's.

But here is where I call B.S. Look at WHEN CK throws the ball. It's to Boldin even before Boldin makes his cut inside (and before he could even determine if his CB was going to go with VD or stay with him - he knows by VD cutting to the corner that it's going to open Boldin up inside). This is by design and VD, Boldin and CK executed it to perfection. Moss made this team passing offense a staple for us all last year as a critical decoy...clearing VD and Crabtree for underneath catches every game.

IMHO, it was Boldin all the way. AR1.

BTW: If VD was a true option here in a progression passing play (dictated by coverage in play), CK would have had to pass to him very early in his route (once he beat the first LB and before the S came up). And Boldin would NOT have been routed to break right into this same zone (i.e. 2 receivers in the same area). No way VD was a true deep option here. CK would have had to wait even longer and by the time the ball got there, he'd be out of bounds (no real window esp. with a S there and a DB underneath somewhat - VD never once turned around either during this time until Boldin broke inside, naturally).

Johnnydel, are you sure your name is not Johnny Manziel breaking down films for us? You have time now since college season is pretty much over. Lol..j/k. Btw, this thread is full of great information and break downs.

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Johnnydel, are you sure your name is not Johnny Manziel breaking down films for us? You have time now since college season is pretty much over. Lol..j/k. Btw, this thread is full of great information and break downs.

Agreed, job well done!

so what's the take away?

i'm getting the sense this whole Kap is a 1 read qb talk can be put to rest...

he's progressing, he's at game 23 of his career right now, they say it takes about 30 games to know if a qb can play in this league.

as we approach game 30 we're seeing incremental improvements in using his eyes to move the defense and going through his progressions that weren't evident before.

do you guys agree?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
my thing with this is that it's no different from any other qb who has made a pre snap read and diagnosed who should be the #1 target on a play.
and then that target is open so they get them the ball.

if your first read is open throw it, don't pass it up to go to another possible read..
but that's where the progressions come in. the only problem i have is that at times there is only 1 option, and the others are decoys, that's unacceptable

like on the play you're commenting on, i believe if crab was not open as quick as he was, he would have worked his way to macdonald in the center of the field.
but
he was open so he got the ball.
i can't be too mad at that. we just need multiple options on every passing plays no more decoys and he can work through progressions that are there instead of hoping that the only 2 and sometimes only 1 option is actually successful at getting open on the particular play

Agreed. other's are more obvious esp. the AR2's. We can argue about whether this was a pre-determined one-read (AR1) or a PS passing play where CK had really, 3 true progresion passing options and the coverage dictated the pass (in this case, to Boldin). In this case, it may have been VD (deeper), then Boldin and then McDonald. If this was one of those plays, FANTASTIC b/c CK got it right...hit the receiver underneath just as the deeper route occupies two DB's.

But here is where I call BS. Look at WHEN CK throws the ball. It's to Boldin even before Boldin makes his cut inside (and before he could even determine if his CB was going to go with VD or stay with him - he knows by VD cutting to the corner that it's going to open Boldin up. This is by design and Moss made it a staple for us all last year). It was Boldin all the way. AR1

Vernon definitely is being used to clear out the zone, and there's nothing wrong with that cause it worked. Every team in the league has plays designed that are coverage reads, hi/lo reads and some that are 1 receiver type of plays.

Here I'll show you a play from the very first series of the game when we played the packers this year.



They run an out with the TE and the 2 receivers on that side run straight up the field towards the defenders


Rodgers has just thrown the ball and the 2 receivers aren't looking to do anything bu block



Every team runs 1 man routes. It really comes from Bill Walsh, they're extended run plays

johnnydel, first noob to go legend.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by iLL49er:
Takes 30 games for a qb to become competent kap is on game 23 and its starting to really click....break through coming

I agree, I think the breakthrough is evident now. Several points, he is not careless when he runs the ball and does not subject himself to big hits.That is quite an accomplishment for a QB who is a superior runner. I see many QB's putting the ball up and risking interceptions, Kaep is careful and keeps his team in the game. Lastly, the back shoulder throws, he's tuned into Boldin and I was surprised to see Crabtree and Kaep on the same page with this pass as soon as Crabs came back. Buckle up 49er fans I think we're in for one heck of a ride.

he almost lost the rock on that first down run against seattle last week. defender swatted at the ball and you could see the ball move.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. other's are more obvious esp. the AR2's. We can argue about whether this was a pre-determined one-read (AR1) or a PS passing play where CK had really, 3 true progresion passing options and the coverage dictated the pass (in this case, to Boldin). In this case, it may have been VD (deeper), then Boldin and then McDonald. If this was one of those plays, FANTASTIC b/c CK got it right...hit the receiver underneath just as the deeper route occupies two DB's.

But here is where I call B.S. Look at WHEN CK throws the ball. It's to Boldin even before Boldin makes his cut inside (and before he could even determine if his CB was going to go with VD or stay with him - he knows by VD cutting to the corner that it's going to open Boldin up inside). This is by design and VD, Boldin and CK executed it to perfection. Moss made this team passing offense a staple for us all last year as a critical decoy...clearing VD and Crabtree for underneath catches every game.

IMHO, it was Boldin all the way. AR1.

BTW: If VD was a true option here in a progression passing play (dictated by coverage in play), CK would have had to pass to him very early in his route (once he beat the first LB and before the S came up). And Boldin would NOT have been routed to break right into this same zone (i.e. 2 receivers in the same area). No way VD was a true deep option here. CK would have had to wait even longer and by the time the ball got there, he'd be out of bounds (no real window esp. with a S there and a DB underneath somewhat - VD never once turned around either during this time until Boldin broke inside, naturally).

How I disagree is probably in our view of CK. If you believe CK is a 1-read QB you'll see it as AR1. However, I truly believe this is a sign of his maturity as a QB. Understand I am NOT a CK defender. In fact, I had a very hard time with accepting him as our starter. I've been a huge critic of his all year. However, from what I see in the route tree, I can say with 90% certainty that it's a coverage read. He doesn't have to read IF the corner is staying with Vernon, he reads the LB drop in zone which tells him cover 3, the corner WILL stay on top with Vernon. Vernon clears out the zone and he anticipates the throw, throwing it to the open man before the defense can adjust. This is a huge step for him. His biggest weakness this year(and last) was his inability to anticipate the hole in the zone(I'll show some examples of that later). This is on par with when Brees or Manning would make the throw, just as the receiver is entering his break. When Peyton threw his 49th TD pass a few years ago it was on a post route with a flag fake(meaning the receiver ran straight down the field faked to go out on a flag and turned back in to the post route) It was against a cover 2 zone and Manning threw the ball right after he made his first cut. The receiver caught the ball litereally on his first step out of his break 20 yards downfield. The receiver was open because Manning read the defense correctly and anticipated the opening.

Originally posted by crabman82:
johnnydel, first noob to go legend.

I've actually been around the webzone for years. I just haven't joined the forums too much, read a lot of what you guys have said, but not a lot of comments. Plus that and I usually didn't want to join in the convo without concrete proof of what I was saying I rarely logged in and forgot my password and had to reset it

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I've actually been around the webzone for years. I just haven't joined the forums too much, read a lot of what you guys have said, but not a lot of comments. Plus that and I usually didn't want to join in the convo without concrete proof of what I was saying I rarely logged in and forgot my password and had to reset it

You're an outsider. We all like to blab our opinions all over the place with no data to support it whatsoever.

How refreshing you are.

Any ideas why many of our runs get blown up in the backfield?

Originally posted by iLL49er:
so what's the take away?

i'm getting the sense this whole Kap is a 1 read qb talk can be put to rest...

he's progressing, he's at game 23 of his career right now, they say it takes about 30 games to know if a qb can play in this league.

as we approach game 30 we're seeing incremental improvements in using his eyes to move the defense and going through his progressions that weren't evident before.

do you guys agree?

Yup. When i asked the OP to compare Kaep with other QB's that were known to go through their progressions and that it appeared that Kaep has been getting better with his, he agreed and said he is improving.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
You're an outsider. We all like to blab our opinions all over the place with no data to support it whatsoever.

How refreshing you are.

Any ideas why many of our runs get blown up in the backfield?

still working on that, they're harder to pinpoint sometimes. I'll show some examples in a little bit but, the reasons vary, sometimes the defense calls the right play, sometimes a guy blocks the wrong guy, sometimes they get literally a half step away from breaking it. There's a lot of things going on there

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. other's are more obvious esp. the AR2's. We can argue about whether this was a pre-determined one-read (AR1) or a PS passing play where CK had really, 3 true progresion passing options and the coverage dictated the pass (in this case, to Boldin). In this case, it may have been VD (deeper), then Boldin and then McDonald. If this was one of those plays, FANTASTIC b/c CK got it right...hit the receiver underneath just as the deeper route occupies two DB's.

But here is where I call B.S. Look at WHEN CK throws the ball. It's to Boldin even before Boldin makes his cut inside (and before he could even determine if his CB was going to go with VD or stay with him - he knows by VD cutting to the corner that it's going to open Boldin up inside). This is by design and VD, Boldin and CK executed it to perfection. Moss made this team passing offense a staple for us all last year as a critical decoy...clearing VD and Crabtree for underneath catches every game.

IMHO, it was Boldin all the way. AR1.

BTW: If VD was a true option here in a progression passing play (dictated by coverage in play), CK would have had to pass to him very early in his route (once he beat the first LB and before the S came up). And Boldin would NOT have been routed to break right into this same zone (i.e. 2 receivers in the same area). No way VD was a true deep option here. CK would have had to wait even longer and by the time the ball got there, he'd be out of bounds (no real window esp. with a S there and a DB underneath somewhat - VD never once turned around either during this time until Boldin broke inside, naturally).

That's the thing. If it was ar1 all the way and it worked then we see the rewards. We need to make it so that there is no Ar1 and nothing else. That's on the coordinator and his philosophy imo. When there are multiple options repeatedly Kap proves that he spreads the ball around. They just need to be consistently called especially now with Crab and Boldin out there. Give him the option on 90% of the passing plays to look for multiple people and make the decisions. he's proven he can do that. this thread shows he can do it, the only way he can do it as consistently as brees/peyton, is if he gets those play calls all the time.

but with that being said i don't have a problem with him getting the ball out of his hands quickly majority of the time if the guy he's throwing to is open. it helps hide our offensive line. he already does help hide the line's pass blocking a lot. and it's not really any different than peyton or brees.. 80% of the time they snap the ball they're getting rid of it to their diagnosed 1st read based on the pre snap call and adjustments.
that's why its difficult to sack them.
however where our offense differs is that if the 1st read isn't there they always have 3 more

whereas if our 1st read isn't there and the rest of the people are decoys.. now what?