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Osgood Punt Block & Illegal Advance of Ball

Originally posted by dhp318:
Good thing it don't matter cuz we won

Yes but would be nice to change for other teams and for future games. Might cost some team a game, maybe even us down the road.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 8, 2013 at 7:49 PM ]
  • AmpLee
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To clarify, the question is not regarding the penalty/replay of down. It's about a player punching the ball 15-20 yards downfield, being flagged for it, and the ball not being dead from the spot he punched it. If you're on offense, a fumbled ball cannot be advanced forward if it goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. It would be marked at the spot of the fumble. The same theory should apply to this play,
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Ted Robinson said on the post game show..that is the the rule and it should be changed

Sucks

Change it to what?

You can't have the penalty be enforced from the spot of the foul, since penalties called on the offense (which Seattle was, since no change of possession had occurred, the play is essentially a fumble) are enforced from the original line of scrimmage, not the spot of the foul.

You start enforcing offensive penalties from the spot of the foul and it's going to be a freaking mess.
Originally posted by linkboy:
Change it to what?

You can't have the penalty be enforced from the spot of the foul, since penalties called on the offense (which Seattle was, since no change of possession had occurred, the play is essentially a fumble) are enforced from the original line of scrimmage, not the spot of the foul.

You start enforcing offensive penalties from the spot of the foul and it's going to be a freaking mess.

Well how about just forgetting the penalty and the team takes over where he batted the ball forward illegally?
Originally posted by AmpLee:
To clarify, the question is not regarding the penalty/replay of down. It's about a player punching the ball 15-20 yards downfield, being flagged for it, and the ball not being dead from the spot he punched it. If you're on offense, a fumbled ball cannot be advanced forward if it goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. It would be marked at the spot of the fumble. The same theory should apply to this play,

And in that case, the ball goes back to Seattle since they were the offense on that play, since a change of possession had not occurred (no 49ers player had gained possession of the ball, it's no different then a fumble going out of bounds, the ball returns to the offense), which is why the penalty would be enforced from the original line of scrimmage and fourth down would be replayed.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Change it to what?

You can't have the penalty be enforced from the spot of the foul, since penalties called on the offense (which Seattle was, since no change of possession had occurred, the play is essentially a fumble) are enforced from the original line of scrimmage, not the spot of the foul.

You start enforcing offensive penalties from the spot of the foul and it's going to be a freaking mess.

Well how about just forgetting the penalty and the team takes over where he batted the ball forward illegally?

This is what should happen imo.
Osgood is having a pretty good season.
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Change it to what?

You can't have the penalty be enforced from the spot of the foul, since penalties called on the offense (which Seattle was, since no change of possession had occurred, the play is essentially a fumble) are enforced from the original line of scrimmage, not the spot of the foul.

You start enforcing offensive penalties from the spot of the foul and it's going to be a freaking mess.

Well how about just forgetting the penalty and the team takes over where he batted the ball forward illegally?

This is what should happen imo.

Exactly... So if a punt is blocked the punting team can bat it all the way down to the inch yard line and either get to punt it again or leave the opposing team at the 1? That in no way benefits the team that blocked the kick. As whomever said earlier it penalized the blocking team not the punting team.
Originally posted by KegBert:
This is what should happen imo.

Except you can't forget a penalty and then punish the team that committed it.

The Seahawks were still the offensive team on that play since no 49ers player gained possession of the ball. Because of that, any penalty called on Seattle is enforced from the original line of scrimmage, not the spot of the foul.
  • AmpLee
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Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
To clarify, the question is not regarding the penalty/replay of down. It's about a player punching the ball 15-20 yards downfield, being flagged for it, and the ball not being dead from the spot he punched it. If you're on offense, a fumbled ball cannot be advanced forward if it goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. It would be marked at the spot of the fumble. The same theory should apply to this play,

And in that case, the ball goes back to Seattle since they were the offense on that play, since a change of possession had not occurred (no 49ers player had gained possession of the ball, it's no different then a fumble going out of bounds, the ball returns to the offense), which is why the penalty would be enforced from the original line of scrimmage and fourth down would be replayed.

I must not be explaining myself correctly. I believe the Niners ought to have taken over from the spot the player punched the ball forward, not where the ball went out of bounds 20 yards downfield.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Osgood is having a pretty good season.

Other than the play in the Saints game he has been money on special teams
Originally posted by AmpLee:
I must not be explaining myself correctly. I believe the Niners ought to have taken over from the spot the player punched the ball forward, not where the ball went out of bounds 20 yards downfield.

Exactly.

I understand the point linkboy is making, but batting the ball forward like that should be called differently then say, a holding penalty. Because holding does not illegally advance the ball. Batting it 20 yards downfield does.

The result of the play was just plain unfair competition. We were effectively punished 20 yards for their infraction. Makes no logical sense. Change the rule.
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by KegBert:
This is what should happen imo.

Except you can't forget a penalty and then punish the team that committed it.

The Seahawks were still the offensive team on that play since no 49ers player gained possession of the ball. Because of that, any penalty called on Seattle is enforced from the original line of scrimmage, not the spot of the foul.

Yeah but what we're saying is that the ball should be dead once the player touched it. Penalty doesn't even matter here.

Not sure what the proper ruling is. But regardless the ball should be dead at the point of contact.
Originally posted by tohara3:
Other than the play in the Saints game he has been money on special teams

Yeah I didnt think he would make the team because I knew he never offered anything at WR but glad they brought him back. I'd re-sign him for vet min for next year. Him and Spillman have saved us on ST big time. He will be the #5 WR/ST guy... although if we kept 6 he'd be the #6 WR but technically 5 because 6 is usually inactive.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
I must not be explaining myself correctly. I believe the Niners ought to have taken over from the spot the player punched the ball forward, not where the ball went out of bounds 20 yards downfield.

And I'm trying to explain to you why they can't, but I must not be making myself clear enough.

On a punt, the change of possession doesn't occur until

A) A player of the receiving team catches the ball

B) The ball touches a member of the receiving team and is recovered by the kicking team.

On a blocked punt, the ball is live the minute it is touched by the player, on the receiving team, and the rules regarding a fumble go into effect.

Since there wasn't a change of possession on the play (the 49ers never recovered the ball in the field of play), the Seahawks were still considered the offense and can advance the ball if they recover it.

Because Seattle is still on offense, any penalty that is called on them will be enforced from the original line of scrimmage (if said penalty is accepted), not the spot of the foul.
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