offensive line

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
The O- line is overrated.

It was this year. Every time I hear someone say we have the best OLine in the league I sigh to myself. The OLine was amazing last year in run blocking. They have always been mediocre as a group in pass protection. Joe Staley is great the only one who is great in both imo.

Staley's one of the best in the biz. Iupati hasn't improved his pass pro since 2011 which is concerning and could lead to him moving on after this year. Goodwin was really good in 2011, steady in 2012 and shaky this season..Boone has gotten better each season IMO. Davis had a down year but I think he was playing hurt and just sucked it up. He'll bounce back.

Let's talk about this as it was a big issue for the 2nd half of the year (running with RB/FB's, esp. in the playoffs and esp. on first downs). And also, re: pass protection, how much has it helped mask our pass protection having a guy like CK back there? Is pass protection a bigger issue than we're willing to admit? Not consistent? Also, is CK bailing out on clean pockets? Is mobility an issue like it used to be for the OL that blocked for Steve Young/Jeff Garcia (they used to tell them to stop moving so much so they knew how to block for them).

RT Davis (Marquardt)
RG Boone (Snyder)
C Goodwin (Kilgore)
LG Iupati (Looney & Seymour)
LT Staley (Snyder/Boone)

So what are we going to do? Are we going to cut Goodwin and go quicker, more athletic with Kilgore or bring over the mauler of Looney to man the position.
And what about Kilgore, Looney, Seymour and Marquardt? How about the draft...FA?

Originally posted by xela510:

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
The O- line is overrated.

It was this year. Every time I hear someone say we have the best OLine in the league I sigh to myself. The OLine was amazing last year in run blocking. They have always been mediocre as a group in pass protection. Joe Staley is great the only one who is great in both imo.

This-

I'd always have to remind people that this is the same O-line that had Alex Smith on his back more than any other QB in the league. The only reason they looked as good as they did last year in Pass Blocking is because Keap was taking off instead of getting the snot knocked out of him.

Once the 49ers told him not to run so much.... things went back to normal.

What do you guys think about a paradigm shift regarding the run blocking? Is the Oline the way it is because Sing urged Baalke to take bruisers like Iupati and ADavis in the 1st round, thus defining the Oline as maulers? Is Harbaugh just working with what he has, or did he come to the 49ers because he loved that guys like Iupati, Boone, ADavis were already in place, making implementing the ground and pound game much easier?

I love having those massive strong guys on the Oline, but when it's passing downs, Kap is succeeding despite the Oline's shortcomings regarding the pass protection. Against teams with good Dlines, which includes every single team in the NFC west, I'd really like Kap to get better pass protection. If Latts can attack the edges, the 49ers are going to need a little more agility from their interior linemen. Some have suggested swapping positions between Boone and ADavis. Sounds like a start, although I don't know what ADavis looks like pulling and leading. Some more agility could also help the screen pass. If the 49ers can replace Goodwin with a good agile guy (whether it's Kilgore or a guy not yet on the roster), that can also indirectly help Iupati and Boone.

Originally posted by thl408:
What do you guys think about a paradigm shift regarding the run blocking? Is the Oline the way it is because Sing urged Baalke to take bruisers like Iupati and ADavis in the 1st round, thus defining the Oline as maulers? Is Harbaugh just working with what he has, or did he come to the 49ers because he loved that guys like Iupati, Boone, ADavis were already in place, making implementing the ground and pound game much easier?

I love having those massive strong guys on the Oline, but when it's passing downs, Kap is succeeding despite the Oline's shortcomings regarding the pass protection. Against teams with good Dlines, which includes every single team in the NFC west, I'd really like Kap to get better pass protection. If Latts can attack the edges, the 49ers are going to need a little more agility from their interior linemen. Some have suggested swapping positions between Boone and ADavis. Sounds like a start, although I don't know what ADavis looks like pulling and leading. Some more agility could also help the screen pass. If the 49ers can replace Goodwin with a good agile guy (whether it's Kilgore or a guy not yet on the roster), that can also indirectly help Iupati and Boone.

You have a point. Oddly, it's easier to find run blockers than pass blockers. Pass blocking is harder and lineman have to be more mentally tough to do it well consistently. The 49ers don't have 5 great pass blockers, they have one pass blocker.

If I were to propose a change, I'd move to more roll outs. It's easier for run blockers to pass block because D-linemen can't establish a stable rush lane.

You actually see this with the Seahawks. Their line isn't that great at pass blocking, so they intentionally and unintentionally move Wilson around to reduce pressure. They are also a run blocking team. I wouldn't credit any of their O-linemen with being above average pass blockers, and a couple of them just plain suck.

Originally posted by thl408:
What do you guys think about a paradigm shift regarding the run blocking? Is the Oline the way it is because Sing urged Baalke to take bruisers like Iupati and ADavis in the 1st round, thus defining the Oline as maulers? Is Harbaugh just working with what he has, or did he come to the 49ers because he loved that guys like Iupati, Boone, ADavis were already in place, making implementing the ground and pound game much easier?

I love having those massive strong guys on the Oline, but when it's passing downs, Kap is succeeding despite the Oline's shortcomings regarding the pass protection. Against teams with good Dlines, which includes every single team in the NFC west, I'd really like Kap to get better pass protection. If Latts can attack the edges, the 49ers are going to need a little more agility from their interior linemen. Some have suggested swapping positions between Boone and ADavis. Sounds like a start, although I don't know what ADavis looks like pulling and leading. Some more agility could also help the screen pass. If the 49ers can replace Goodwin with a good agile guy (whether it's Kilgore or a guy not yet on the roster), that can also indirectly help Iupati and Boone.

That's what I want to know as well. If we changed OC's to someone like Kubiak or stayed with HaRoMan, would we change to zone blocking or is this beefier line more ideal for what Harbaugh wants? At the same time, if we go a little lighter we still can use all the jumbo packages with Kilgore/Snyder/McDonald and Miller/Tukuafu as FB's. And for big guys, many of them are very atheltic as well...Staley/Boone...then Kilgore. Iupati is our "pulling guard" so he has to have some athleticism. Davis? Can these guys slim down much more and work on cardio/technique...add more WCO running plays? I just don't know.

It would also be nice to tease out how defenses were playing us as well. Like Seattle on first downs. Is that the ONLY time they stacked 8-9 in the box and run blitzed and then backed off for coverage on 2nd and 3rd downs? Time to do some film study...

NCommand, what you pointed out above will be a great indicator. If they replace Goodwin with Kilgore, who is a little lighter, quicker and more athletic, it may be a sign that they're moving towards a more robust passing game. And, if they think Kaepernick is progressing into a polished pocket passer, that would make a lot of sense, especially if we see them draft at least two more receivers this year.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
What do you guys think about a paradigm shift regarding the run blocking? Is the Oline the way it is because Sing urged Baalke to take bruisers like Iupati and ADavis in the 1st round, thus defining the Oline as maulers? Is Harbaugh just working with what he has, or did he come to the 49ers because he loved that guys like Iupati, Boone, ADavis were already in place, making implementing the ground and pound game much easier?

I love having those massive strong guys on the Oline, but when it's passing downs, Kap is succeeding despite the Oline's shortcomings regarding the pass protection. Against teams with good Dlines, which includes every single team in the NFC west, I'd really like Kap to get better pass protection. If Latts can attack the edges, the 49ers are going to need a little more agility from their interior linemen. Some have suggested swapping positions between Boone and ADavis. Sounds like a start, although I don't know what ADavis looks like pulling and leading. Some more agility could also help the screen pass. If the 49ers can replace Goodwin with a good agile guy (whether it's Kilgore or a guy not yet on the roster), that can also indirectly help Iupati and Boone.

That's what I want to know as well. If we changed OC's to someone like Kubiak or stayed with HaRoMan, would we change to zone blocking or is this deefier line more ideal for what Harbaugh wants? At the same time, if we go a little lighter we still can use all the jumbo packages with Kilgore/Snyder/McDonald and Miller/Tukuafu as FB's. And for big guys, many of them are very atheltic as well...Staley/Boone...then Kilgore. Iupati is our "pulling guard" so he has to have some athleticism. Davis? Can these guys slim down much more and work on cardio/technique...add more WCO running plays? I just don't know.

It would also be nice to tease out how defenses were playing us as well. Like Seattle on first downs. Is that the ONLY time they stacked 8-9 in the box and run blitzed and then backed off for coverage on 2nd and 3rd downs? Time to do some film study...

I think it is really hard to say if Harbaugh is just working with what he has. I feel like Harbaughs OL at Stanford was built the same way it is here. But with Kilgore and Looney, they are not nearly as big as guys like Iupati and Boone. I guess it remains to be seen over the next year or so.

I would really love to have Rathman influence this offense. He played for Walsh and has to know all of the passing concepts enough to help develop this passing attack.

Originally posted by crake49:
NCommand, what you pointed out above will be a great indicator. If they replace Goodwin with Kilgore, who is a little lighter, quicker and more athletic, it may be a sign that they're moving towards a more robust passing game. And, if they think Kaepernick is progressing into a polished pocket passer, that would make a lot of sense, especially if we see them draft at least two more receivers this year.

That could very well be the case!

How is it Seattle plugs in guys off the street each week and Lynch gets his 100. Whereas, we have first round talent and can't get off the line of scrimmage when we play the Hawks. What's the problem? Over-rated line or poor play calling.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
How is it Seattle plugs in guys off the street each week and Lynch gets his 100. Whereas, we have first round talent and can't get off the line of scrimmage when we play the Hawks. What's the problem? Over-rated line or poor play calling.

I'll be Captain Obvious here...both! LOL

Don't want to start yet another Oline thread but want to point out a couple of things and ask a couple of questions.

Observations:
1) Goodwin not signed.
2) Niners pick up Martin and still have Marquardt and Bykowski.
3) I saw a lack of trust between Goodwin and Iupati last year with Goodwin constantly over-covering to his left.

Questions:
1) Kilgore and Looney compete for center? No rookie?
2) Was Iupati injured more than indicated in the press?
3) Are you comfortable with Davis at RT?
4) Are Staley and Boone the only two solid performers in Pass Protection?

Answering these questions would go a long way to setting up the draft/FA needs from here on out.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
How is it Seattle plugs in guys off the street each week and Lynch gets his 100. Whereas, we have first round talent and can't get off the line of scrimmage when we play the Hawks. What's the problem? Over-rated line or poor play calling.

well in seattle, the o-line suffers from the noise. it allows the d-line to get that split second head start. the play calling at times is predictable and that plays into it aswell. in sf we run fairly easy on them. gore has about 250 rush yards the last 2 games in sf.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Don't want to start yet another Oline thread but want to point out a couple of things and ask a couple of questions.

Observations:
1) Goodwin not signed.
2) Niners pick up Martin and still have Marquardt and Bykowski.
3) I saw a lack of trust between Goodwin and Iupati last year with Goodwin constantly over-covering to his left.

Questions:
1) Kilgore and Looney compete for center? No rookie?
2) Was Iupati injured more than indicated in the press?
3) Are you comfortable with Davis at RT?
4) Are Staley and Boone the only two solid performers in Pass Protection?

Answering these questions would go a long way to setting up the draft/FA needs from here on out.

Staley Iupati Kilgore Boone Davis

I think in 2015 Iupati walks, Boone goes to LG and Johnathan Martin/FA/Draft Pick replaces RG

Davis is legit at RT