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Fran Tarkenton Says Kaeperknick looks Confused?

  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,874
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I've been saying all season that Kaepernick looks like he's been "overcoached." IE.....he's been told not to run, told to stay in the pocket, he's heard stuff from so many people that now when he plays, he's over-thinking things rather than just reacting to what the defense is doing and letting it rip. You can see it in his expression and demeanor, he doesn't have the same confidence he did last season, I think they absolutely overloaded him and it had made things worse, not better.
he just has a f**king dip s**t for a OC, thats all
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by verb1der:
This year is is pocket passing school for Kaep. Next year will be total annihilation!

The rules changes that allowed defenders to hit the QB on read/option really changed the teams plans. That along with how fast defenses caught up to our schemes. Harbaugh and Roman weren't ready for these rapid shifts in the dynamics. While they were creative, they didn't realize how intelligent and creative the rest of the NFL is. Welcome to the big leagues guys.

So, they saw that Frank had to be the prime guy and went back to what worked for him..the I formation. But I feel they did this in a reactionary way, riding the pendulum from wanting to be a wide open, spread passing offense as they did in the Green Bay game to being the 60% run team they morphed into during the winning stretch against inferior competition.

They have to find a new way, one that is more like the really good teams like Green Bay, Pats, New Orleans use. It's a hybrid with a lot of spread sets, still running a lot out of them. We dont' have to be 60/40 pass/run like the rest of the league, but how about 55/45. We all know the game favors passing, and we can't go against the odds forever. We're finding this out this season. Frank doesn't do as well with this, but Frank's days are coming to a close.

I think they are going to figure out that Kap functions best out of the spread and shotgun. He's built for it. He learned the game this way, he's natural and he MUST become the heart of the offense not a running back. The teams that win perennially are teams centered around an elite QB. Kap can be that, but only if we build the offense strategy around him. We saw what he can do last year. That amazing talent/skill set is still there. It's just on hold because of what they are attempting to morph him into.

Think about a New Orleans or Patriot type offense. Add in LaMichael in a Sproles role with more Kendall(who knows and would be great in spread) and we have a formula for the future. Throw in Lattimore who is the power back also familiar with spread and you have a real three headed monster at the RB. Crabs, Boldin, Manningham and VD spread out with LaMichael or Kendall in the backfield. Can you imagine what that would do to defenses if they had to also watch for Kap to roll out and turn the corner. I just don't know you would defend that. It would stretch defenses every way imaginable. If we are going to be a top team continually we are going to have to go much more in this direction....

Excellent post.


Only thing I'd add is that I hope we take a guy like Sammy Watkins, Marqise Lee, Odell Beckham Jr, or Brandin Cooks in the draft next year - a legit burner and game breaker that can stretch the field. It'd set our offense over the IMO.
Originally posted by thl408:
If Kap played with his instincts, he'd run after his first option was covered since that's what he did so much in college. Kap is being re-wired. Don't let him play with his instincts. It will pay off in the long run.

there's a balance. i doubt he'd run after his 1st read he's demonstrated willingness to try to find someone since day 1. if he has the time.

to me he isn't confused he just needs time like any other qb.

when he gets the play on time can make his adjustments on time and gets more than 2 seconds with pressure right up the middle he's special.

more of aggressiveness against the good teams will show the difference.

the coaching staff is aggressive and goes for it against bad teams

they need to do the same thing against good teams.

we go for it twice against the redskins we had been going for it on 4th down every other game just for the hell of it

get to the panthers on 4th and goal from the 2 and we kick a field goal.

those things send messages.

also panther game we didn't do anything.
we didn't run when we could have
and we didn't send out routes that would be successful.
7 step drops against their pressure makes any qb look like he doesn't know what he's doing.
tom brady looked like he didn't know what he was doing in the 1st half until they changed the plan and started throwing quick routes and started using the tight end like we should have.

miami who's offensive line isn't as good as ours constantly ran with power against the panthers AND when they passed had at least 3 wr options with mike wallace stretching the field threw screens and everything else to keep them off balance.

all things we could have and should have done as well.

we take the aggressiveness of this last game and apply it to the entire season we're probably looking at a 10-1 record right now.

but that's the past.

now we need to be consistent.
power run, don't abandon the run. run real routes and no more miller going out period. too many weapons to have him being a target of any kind.

kap proves time and time again, when you give him responsibility he handles it. when you make the offense complex don't expect him to be able to make the right reads and calls in the 5 seconds he has before the play is snapped give him time and we see the results.
give him routes with maximum options
and he'll grow leaps and bounds
Originally posted by verb1der:
This year is is pocket passing school for Kaep. Next year will be total annihilation!

Bingo. It's best to develop all facets of his game before attempting to put it all together.
  • Garcia
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30,341
naturally miss wide open WRs
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I've been saying all season that Kaepernick looks like he's been "overcoached." IE.....he's been told not to run, told to stay in the pocket, he's heard stuff from so many people that now when he plays, he's over-thinking things rather than just reacting to what the defense is doing and letting it rip. You can see it in his expression and demeanor, he doesn't have the same confidence he did last season, I think they absolutely overloaded him and it had made things worse, not better.
There is something to the KISS principle, especially on a young QB. They need to keep in mind that Kaep has only been a this a little over a year and is still getting used to the speed of the NFL.
Hard to disagree with Fran...he was a QB who used to drive DL absolutely freakin' nuts. He ran around looking for a receiver, dodging so many tacklers. It was like Wiley Coyote chasing Road Runner. That said, he does know what he's talking about. He has credibility.
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by verb1der:
This year is is pocket passing school for Kaep. Next year will be total annihilation!

The rules changes that allowed defenders to hit the QB on read/option really changed the teams plans. That along with how fast defenses caught up to our schemes. Harbaugh and Roman weren't ready for these rapid shifts in the dynamics. While they were creative, they didn't realize how intelligent and creative the rest of the NFL is. Welcome to the big leagues guys.

So, they saw that Frank had to be the prime guy and went back to what worked for him..the I formation. But I feel they did this in a reactionary way, riding the pendulum from wanting to be a wide open, spread passing offense as they did in the Green Bay game to being the 60% run team they morphed into during the winning stretch against inferior competition.

They have to find a new way, one that is more like the really good teams like Green Bay, Pats, New Orleans use. It's a hybrid with a lot of spread sets, still running a lot out of them. We dont' have to be 60/40 pass/run like the rest of the league, but how about 55/45. We all know the game favors passing, and we can't go against the odds forever. We're finding this out this season. Frank doesn't do as well with this, but Frank's days are coming to a close.

I think they are going to figure out that Kap functions best out of the spread and shotgun. He's built for it. He learned the game this way, he's natural and he MUST become the heart of the offense not a running back. The teams that win perennially are teams centered around an elite QB. Kap can be that, but only if we build the offense strategy around him. We saw what he can do last year. That amazing talent/skill set is still there. It's just on hold because of what they are attempting to morph him into.

Think about a New Orleans or Patriot type offense. Add in LaMichael in a Sproles role with more Kendall(who knows and would be great in spread) and we have a formula for the future. Throw in Lattimore who is the power back also familiar with spread and you have a real three headed monster at the RB. Crabs, Boldin, Manningham and VD spread out with LaMichael or Kendall in the backfield. Can you imagine what that would do to defenses if they had to also watch for Kap to roll out and turn the corner. I just don't know you would defend that. It would stretch defenses every way imaginable. If we are going to be a top team continually we are going to have to go much more in this direction....

Excellent post.


Only thing I'd add is that I hope we take a guy like Sammy Watkins, Marqise Lee, Odell Beckham Jr, or Brandin Cooks in the draft next year - a legit burner and game breaker that can stretch the field. It'd set our offense over the IMO.

Originally posted by cNiner:
he is being like his coach , playing not to lose insted of playing to win. affraid to make mistakes , wants to be like Alex. !

exactly it.. I noticed that Kap was mistake it then he decided to wants to be like Alex! ur exactly it!!!
The biggest question for me is why didn't Harbaugh and Roman let CK play more in the preseason and institute the change in style then so that by this time, today, Kap would have been way more familiar with it. Trying to mold him into Andrew Luck mid season seems questionable, especially without Crabtree and Rio who the brass knew would be gone for a while. Who wouldn't be confused.
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
The biggest question for me is why didn't Harbaugh and Roman let CK play more in the preseason and institute the change in style then so that by this time, today, Kap would have been way more familiar with it. Trying to mold him into Andrew Luck mid season seems questionable, especially without Crabtree and Rio who the brass knew would be gone for a while. Who wouldn't be confused.

Based on the way we played offense early this season, I think they fully expected the pistol read-option to be as effective as it was last year. They were going to roll with it until defenses proved they could stop it. They have, and we had to adapt out of necessity.
Complex system?
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
The biggest question for me is why didn't Harbaugh and Roman let CK play more in the preseason and institute the change in style then so that by this time, today, Kap would have been way more familiar with it. Trying to mold him into Andrew Luck mid season seems questionable, especially without Crabtree and Rio who the brass knew would be gone for a while. Who wouldn't be confused.

Based on the way we played offense early this season, I think they fully expected the pistol read-option to be as effective as it was last year. They were going to roll with it until defenses proved they could stop it. They have, and we had to adapt out of necessity.

Good point SofaKing. It's not realitic to think teams wouldn't catch on at some point. Arrogance or ignorance on their part?
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I've been saying all season that Kaepernick looks like he's been "overcoached." IE.....he's been told not to run, told to stay in the pocket, he's heard stuff from so many people that now when he plays, he's over-thinking things rather than just reacting to what the defense is doing and letting it rip. You can see it in his expression and demeanor, he doesn't have the same confidence he did last season, I think they absolutely overloaded him and it had made things worse, not better.
There is something to the KISS principle, especially on a young QB. They need to keep in mind that Kaep has only been a this a little over a year and is still getting used to the speed of the NFL.

Know why Alex Smith succeeded under the Harb offense? Because they kept it SIMPLE that he adjusted to the system smoothly.

They should have done it with Kaep this season, not complexed it. Kaep would have benefited with an offense that included the play action and the bootleg-two components in the WCO that made Montana and Young successful.
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
The biggest question for me is why didn't Harbaugh and Roman let CK play more in the preseason and institute the change in style then so that by this time, today, Kap would have been way more familiar with it. Trying to mold him into Andrew Luck mid season seems questionable, especially without Crabtree and Rio who the brass knew would be gone for a while. Who wouldn't be confused.

Based on the way we played offense early this season, I think they fully expected the pistol read-option to be as effective as it was last year. They were going to roll with it until defenses proved they could stop it. They have, and we had to adapt out of necessity.

Good point SofaKing. It's not realitic to think teams wouldn't catch on at some point. Arrogance or ignorance on their part?

Probably a little bit of both. I don't blame them for opening the season with the pistol. It was so wildly successful last year, it's worth finding out if we could sustain it. They knew defenses would catch on to a certain extent. That's why they hired Mangini, a defensive coach, to consult the offense. But it seems like they underestimated how effectively teams have prepared for it.
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