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Fran Tarkenton Says Kaeperknick looks Confused?

  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,236
i hated fran when he played and he pissed super bowl games down his leg but looking back he is right. Now i trace that all back to roman. the s**t roman calls, the stuff he does. the inability to get plays in. who the hell would not be confused? the panther game was really the low point of the season and if we end up missing the playoffs, roman should should be hung high and left for the buzzards because of that game in my opinion. colts game to
Niners a running team, so there's more pressure to make the connection on passing plays for that conversion. Kaep feeling the pressure to go to the right guy, make the throw. Get that conversion with limited passing tries. There's no rhythm passing for the qb . Phil Simms went through it with the Giants, Alex Smith went through it with the Niners, and now Kaep.

I think Tarkenton is calling for more passing plays to let Kaep make use of all his skills in a comfortable way. But I'm pretty sure HarRo not gonna do that. Fran asking for back yard ball for Kaep, Harbaugh don't play that.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Nov 27, 2013 at 8:49 AM ]
If Crabtree comes back as anything more than just a shell of himself I think (hope) that will make Kap more comfortable. The blueprint has been set this year for teams loading the box with 8-9 guys and we can't keep running into that on 1st down. It's also pretty tough to scramble or run as a QB when almost all the defenders are within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. We need to prove we can burn teams deep when they sell out on the run and that should balance things out more. So far we've been inconsistent in that department but hopefully we can build off the momentum gained after the 1st quarter last week.
this guy ran around like a chicken with its head cut off, i think he is the one that was confused.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,236
as we saw with the pass to davis for the score,, sell the f**king run to set up the f**king pass roman.. can it be so hard to remember that???
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/fran-tarkenton-says-he-s-the-greatest-quarterback-ever-112013

he also believes he is the best QB ever!
Originally posted by pahlerbj:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/fran-tarkenton-says-he-s-the-greatest-quarterback-ever-112013

he also believes he is the best QB ever!

although i took a shot at his playing style with my post above, he did leave the game as the all time leader in just about every qb stat. obviously the stats these days trump his from the 60's and 70's. but in his day, stat wise, he was the goat but didnt have the hardware like bradshaw or staubach.
Originally posted by verb1der:
This year is is pocket passing school for Kaep. Next year will be total annihilation!

The rules changes that allowed defenders to hit the QB on read/option really changed the teams plans. That along with how fast defenses caught up to our schemes. Harbaugh and Roman weren't ready for these rapid shifts in the dynamics. While they were creative, they didn't realize how intelligent and creative the rest of the NFL is. Welcome to the big leagues guys.

So, they saw that Frank had to be the prime guy and went back to what worked for him..the I formation. But I feel they did this in a reactionary way, riding the pendulum from wanting to be a wide open, spread passing offense as they did in the Green Bay game to being the 60% run team they morphed into during the winning stretch against inferior competition.

They have to find a new way, one that is more like the really good teams like Green Bay, Pats, New Orleans use. It's a hybrid with a lot of spread sets, still running a lot out of them. We dont' have to be 60/40 pass/run like the rest of the league, but how about 55/45. We all know the game favors passing, and we can't go against the odds forever. We're finding this out this season. Frank doesn't do as well with this, but Frank's days are coming to a close.

I think they are going to figure out that Kap functions best out of the spread and shotgun. He's built for it. He learned the game this way, he's natural and he MUST become the heart of the offense not a running back. The teams that win perennially are teams centered around an elite QB. Kap can be that, but only if we build the offense strategy around him. We saw what he can do last year. That amazing talent/skill set is still there. It's just on hold because of what they are attempting to morph him into.

Think about a New Orleans or Patriot type offense. Add in LaMichael in a Sproles role with more Kendall(who knows and would be great in spread) and we have a formula for the future. Throw in Lattimore who is the power back also familiar with spread and you have a real three headed monster at the RB. Crabs, Boldin, Manningham and VD spread out with LaMichael or Kendall in the backfield. Can you imagine what that would do to defenses if they had to also watch for Kap to roll out and turn the corner. I just don't know you would defend that. It would stretch defenses every way imaginable. If we are going to be a top team continually we are going to have to go much more in this direction....
[ Edited by barrymartin on Nov 27, 2013 at 9:30 AM ]
"Fran"




add a K to that muthaf**ka
[ Edited by ChazBoner on Nov 27, 2013 at 9:22 AM ]
Like everyone else, I was delighted with the win...a must win if we are to have any chance for a playoff spot. 1st half kap played poorly...I think he was intimidated, but LOrd knows why.2nd half he played lites out. It is easy to spot his strengths and main one is passing while he is moving, ie in motion. The TD to Boldin came like that, and it was in no little part because boldin fought like mad to get open in EZ. Wish the WRs would take that tape home and learn from it.

Kap's weaknesses, were allowing HaRo to call 8 runs by frank into a box 8. When he sees that, he should be able to automatically check off to a 3-4 yd deep slant by slot and a 7-8 yd crossing pattern by the Vernon from the other side. He didn't, and I wonder if that was a situation where HaRo just said "run it". If so, that has to be changed to give kap permission to call a pass if 8,9 or 10 guys crowd the LOS. Kap made 5 completions of 20 or more yds, after making just 20 of those in previous 10 games. But it took forever for the ball to come out, and kap had almost 10 seconds to find #81 on one of those. It is obvious, if given enough time , kap CAN find his receievers.

But against elite teams wth the BIG RUSH, kap can't find someone open in under 3 seconds, the max he gets from OL Pass pro. That is the whole key to this. Give him time and kap is golden. Give him 3 seconds with the BIG RUSH, and Kap CANNOT find his receivers. Also the "Big Windup" of kap has been criticized by football talking heads. He does that because he zings the ball in at 78 mph, to "make up" for his inability to pick out receivers quickly. There it is, plain and simple. Against the weak sister teams, kap is all world . Against the Elites, with the BIG RUSH, kap cannot rapidly find his receivers, hence he locks up on one. Man, I sure hope he gets it, because in a win like this, we beat a shell of a NFL team. Redskins looked like a JV team in hi school.

so kudos to kap and HaRo for calling a better game....altho 8 runs by frank into a box 8 is STUPID. Kap should be able to see that and call a pass instead. As for kap finding his receiver in under 3 seconds, well, I guess we are just going to have to pray harder for kap to find his receivers against the elite teams with the BIG RUSH more rapidly.

When you look at it, we have not beaten one team that is an elite...GB we thot was, but it is a shadow of its former self, even when Rodgers is healthy. INDY, SEA, Panthers and Saints are all elites, and all have the BIG RUSH. We cannot beat them because kap doesn't have the ability to find receivers quickly. Against weak sister teams like Redskins, we get a glimpse of what kap can do with enough time. He Zings that ball in to make up for his inability to find his receivers quickly . Against SKINS, and previous 5 Ws, he was fine. We don't go anywhere until kap brings the ability to find receivers in under 3 seconds...to the game. My guess is he doesn't learn it this yr. I am afraid we now have to wait until next yr for our shot at the SB.

There should no longer be any doubt about what kap's big weakness is. Maybe putting him in motion buys him more time, maybe not. But without finding receivers quicker, we don't go any further this yr.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by pahlerbj:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/fran-tarkenton-says-he-s-the-greatest-quarterback-ever-112013

he also believes he is the best QB ever!

although i took a shot at his playing style with my post above, he did leave the game as the all time leader in just about every qb stat. obviously the stats these days trump his from the 60's and 70's. but in his day, stat wise, he was the goat but didnt have the hardware like bradshaw or staubach.

you know you need the hardware to be the goat. He is the greatest scrambler of all time for sure imo

His best passing season he had 3,468 yds!!!! but he also had 32 ints.....

If we just look at stats, maybe Warren moon is the greatest of all time
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Like everyone else, I was delighted with the win...a must win if we are to have any chance for a playoff spot. 1st half kap played poorly...I think he was intimidated, but LOrd knows why.2nd half he played lites out. It is easy to spot his strengths and main one is passing while he is moving, ie in motion. The TD to Boldin came like that, and it was in no little part because boldin fought like mad to get open in EZ. Wish the WRs would take that tape home and learn from it.

Kap's weaknesses, were allowing HaRo to call 8 runs by frank into a box 8. When he sees that, he should be able to automatically check off to a 3-4 yd deep slant by slot and a 7-8 yd crossing pattern by the Vernon from the other side. He didn't, and I wonder if that was a situation where HaRo just said "run it". If so, that has to be changed to give kap permission to call a pass if 8,9 or 10 guys crowd the LOS. Kap made 5 completions of 20 or more yds, after making just 20 of those in previous 10 games. But it took forever for the ball to come out, and kap had almost 10 seconds to find #81 on one of those. It is obvious, if given enough time , kap CAN find his receievers.

But against elite teams wth the BIG RUSH, kap can't find someone open in under 3 seconds, the max he gets from OL Pass pro. That is the whole key to this. Give him time and kap is golden. Give him 3 seconds with the BIG RUSH, and Kap CANNOT find his receivers. Also the "Big Windup" of kap has been criticized by football talking heads. He does that because he zings the ball in at 78 mph, to "make up" for his inability to pick out receivers quickly. There it is, plain and simple. Against the weak sister teams, kap is all world . Against the Elites, with the BIG RUSH, kap cannot rapidly find his receivers, hence he locks up on one. Man, I sure hope he gets it, because in a win like this, we beat a shell of a NFL team. Redskins looked like a JV team in hi school.

so kudos to kap and HaRo for calling a better game....altho 8 runs by frank into a box 8 is STUPID. Kap should be able to see that and call a pass instead. As for kap finding his receiver in under 3 seconds, well, I guess we are just going to have to pray harder for kap to find his receivers against the elite teams with the BIG RUSH more rapidly.

When you look at it, we have not beaten one team that is an elite...GB we thot was, but it is a shadow of its former self, even when Rodgers is healthy. INDY, SEA, Panthers and Saints are all elites, and all have the BIG RUSH. We cannot beat them because kap doesn't have the ability to find receivers quickly. Against weak sister teams like Redskins, we get a glimpse of what kap can do with enough time. He Zings that ball in to make up for his inability to find his receivers quickly . Against SKINS, and previous 5 Ws, he was fine. We don't go anywhere until kap brings the ability to find receivers in under 3 seconds...to the game. My guess is he doesn't learn it this yr. I am afraid we now have to wait until next yr for our shot at the SB.

There should no longer be any doubt about what kap's big weakness is. Maybe putting him in motion buys him more time, maybe not. But without finding receivers quicker, we don't go any further this yr.

It is changing. He showed more capacity to see the hot read and make the short slant the last two games. Manningham was that guy for him and he made some of those plays. They are attempting to scheme and prepare him for those short routes to back the 8-9 out of the box. I think there is another whole way to deal with this which I wrote about above. Spread em out even or first down with Crabs, Boldin, Manningham and VD with Kendall or LaMichael in the backfield. We can still run out of these sets. New Orleans does it well. It's just the opposite philosophy we have now, but with the receivers we have now I think it will work.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
The rules changes that allowed defenders to hit the QB on read/option really changed the teams plans. That along with how fast defenses caught up to our schemes. Harbaugh and Roman weren't ready for these rapid shifts in the dynamics. While they were creative, they didn't realize how intelligent and creative the rest of the NFL is. Welcome to the big leagues guys.

So, they saw that Frank had to be the prime guy and went back to what worked for him..the I formation. But I feel they did this in a reactionary way, riding the pendulum from wanting to be a wide open, spread passing offense as they did in the Green Bay game to being the 60% run team they morphed into during the winning stretch against inferior competition.

They have to find a new way, one that is more like the really good teams like Green Bay, Pats, New Orleans use. It's a hybrid with a lot of spread sets, still running a lot out of them. We dont' have to be 60/40 pass/run like the rest of the league, but how about 55/45. We all know the game favors passing, and we can't go against the odds forever. We're finding this out this season. Frank doesn't do as well with this, but Frank's days are coming to a close.

I think they are going to figure out that Kap functions best out of the spread and shotgun. He's built for it. He learned the game this way, he's natural and he MUST become the heart of the offense not a running back. The teams that win perennially are teams centered around an elite QB. Kap can be that, but only if we build the offense strategy around him. We saw what he can do last year. That amazing talent/skill set is still there. It's just on hold because of what they are attempting to morph him into.

Think about a New Orleans or Patriot type offense. Add in LaMichael in a Sproles role with more Kendall(who knows and would be great in spread) and we have a formula for the future. Throw in Lattimore who is the power back also familiar with spread and you have a real three headed monster at the RB. Crabs, Boldin, Manningham and VD spread out with LaMichael or Kendall in the backfield. Can you imagine what that would do to defenses if they had to also watch for Kap to roll out and turn the corner. I just don't know you would defend that. It would stretch defenses every way imaginable. If we are going to be a top team continually we are going to have to go much more in this direction....

Great take. More WR route runners always favors a QB. Much more so than a FB and a massive TE running routes. However, a spread offense will go against the Harbaugh philosophy of power running while throwing out of 2TE sets. Is Harbaugh adaptable or will he mold Kap into a QB that fits Jim's style of play? Harbaugh has shown the willingness to go with a spread offense from what I saw in the GB game (week 1). They came out wanting to throw. We know that Harbaugh loves Kap's cannon and that suggests that he is willing to make it a focal point of the offense. Once the WR weapons come back to full health we should have a much better idea of what Harbaugh really envisions this offense to be.
Originally posted by pahlerbj:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by pahlerbj:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/fran-tarkenton-says-he-s-the-greatest-quarterback-ever-112013

he also believes he is the best QB ever!

although i took a shot at his playing style with my post above, he did leave the game as the all time leader in just about every qb stat. obviously the stats these days trump his from the 60's and 70's. but in his day, stat wise, he was the goat but didnt have the hardware like bradshaw or staubach.

you know you need the hardware to be the goat. He is the greatest scrambler of all time for sure imo

His best passing season he had 3,468 yds!!!! but he also had 32 ints.....

If we just look at stats, maybe Warren moon is the greatest of all time

he was playing in a total different era. this new age of passing has diluted people's views when they see those type of numbers these days. as far as needing hardware to be the goat, a lot of people think barry sanders is the greatest rb of all time. i dont think fran is the goat, just saying when he left the game he had all the records.
I think tarkenton wasn't really talking about his grasp of the offense but that he get's confused in making a decision. He should run but he looks to throw, he should throw but looks to run. it's an indecisiveness that comes from him being too worried about doing it perfect. I think to put this in perspective you have to understand how tarkenton played the game.