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2013 - Week 12: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Fine post.

It's a step in the right direction. We have to keep it going.

My 2 cents.

Staley played VERY well and has for most of the season.

Snyder - his name wasn't really called much so no news is good news.

Play calling was significantly better. Roman isn't getting out of jail, just a reprieve until he can demonstrate improvement.

Justin the Great - forced fumble, 6 tackles, 4 solo and maybe he'll get credit for 2 sacks [we'll find out later

TJ Eddie - his best performance, 5 tackles and it seemed he was in on more, great hustle!

Brooks took over the game and set the pace from the outset. SUPER glad Baalke has him under contract

Eric Wright played well especially since he covered Santana Moss

Reid is playing like a high quality seasoned pro.

In perspective our D is without 4 starters - Ian, Ray Mac, Brown and Cully.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Regarding 1), 2) 3), I am in disagreement. We did our usual in mauling a doormat. Our run offense was inconsistent, our pass offense did not look sharp, decisive, well paced, confident. None of those things. We trotted out the same long ball ideas -- we won yesterday because VD can't be covered by skin secondary + Bolding can outmuscle anyone on skin secondary. Nothing new. What's becoming more apparent are the missed reads by kap to check down receivers out of the backfield -- also his hesitation in making plays -- whatever they may be -- taking off on a scramble, just taking the open space on a safety valve, or trying to find a lane in a collapsing pocket.

Someone in another thread said he looked hurt -- like he just can't move the way he did last year -- I wonder if that's right.

However, the playcalling is not helping him any. It's so predictable. Hunter in? It's going wide. Kap turns around with Gore in the backfield -- a handoff between the tackles. Nothing weird off a fake, very little of that. I think one problem is that our tells are so obvious, teams overload and breakdown a play with very little caution. They know we run out of the Jumbo 95% of the time. And they other 5% are bombs to whoever. We can't beat tells like that.

In fact, I wonder if the whole idea of our package offense is kind of turning into a giant tell. We need to execute plays from formations where we can do maybe 2 or 3 different things equally if we want to keep the second level off the line for 1.5 seconds. Now, they are like .5 yards deep in the backfield at 1.5 seconds so the play is broken down often. I don't know.

I really didn't get a sense that yesterday was a renaissance game for our offensive scheme or Kap.

Fortunately, if ALdon + Brooks + lemonhead can play at the higher level, we will start to get our sacks. then we really wont give up more than 3 scores a game. Maybe we can get by on that.

Justin had a good game too. I think Vic is starting to mix it up. No more 3 man rushes!!


I never said it was a "renaissance game" for Kap. In fact my point is that they CAN'T have the same offense they had last year because they don't have the components. They can be BETTER when Crab comes back, but IMO it's Delanie Walker that they could really use right now.

Roman needs to adjust. I am not saying he's done perfectly. I'm only saying it isn't any ONE thing. Its a combination of all of them.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by crabman82:
yeah no excuse for missing that rb wide open in the flat, i know his back was turned but you dont pass up that to toss it into double coverage.

Every QB makes mistakes blatant mistakes in games. Whether it's missing a read, or throwing a pick, or missing an easy throw. You could see that he knew he missed it. Overall, he played a really good game, in a game our running game generating very little, yet again.

obviously nobody is perfect, but i dont like how he doesnt dump it off to the rb's in the flat enough. if you're gonna hit some 30 yard pass, yeah alright, but to toss it in double coverage and almost a pick when the dude behind you is wide open, its concerning to me. i would not be as concerned had i seen a good track record of dump offs to the rb's with him.


Yeah...if you watch his eyes, he was clearly scanning the field but never got his eyes all the way over to the back. He instead worked back to one of his prior reads and never should have thrown the ball.

He'll see that on film tho. Every game is a learning experience and he'll get just a bit better every game.

It's rough because we know we can expect struggles against tough defenses right now with pressure being heavier and windows being tighter. With teams like Seattle. you've got to make the decision fast -- but the RIGHT decision -- good teams don't drop the picks typically. It's scary sometimes because we could be looking at a 7-point swing and we can't afford to lose any games right now.

It'll get better, and we can be thankful for now that we didn't suffer any big plays against us, but I admit I struggle with concern when I see Colin looking at a covered or double-covered player and doesn't look away. Inside my head I start screaming, "DON'T YOU DARE THROW THAT BALL. DON'T DO IT. D- DON'T! NO! NO!!!!!"
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Wasn't suggesting he hasn't missed guys.

My point all along that its several things, not any ONE thing that is the difference. He's missing his second reads because last year he seldom even had to look to a second read. Why? They had different personnel and Roman was able to give him some great looks at players running wide open.

Thats a function of the scheme working, personnel that could challenge vertically, and a QB with a huge and accurate arm.

Whats changed? Personnel. While the guys they have no aren't terrible, they are DIFFERENT than what they had last year.

Example, Would I take Tony Gonzales in his prime over Vernon right now? No. Without a second thought I take Vernon. Is it because I think Vernon is so much better than Tony was? Not even close. Tony was better. Vernon tho presents a challenge to defenses that the 49ers need BADLY. He can challenge vertically at a TE. He allows yoy to line up in power formations and still throw deep. When they had Delanie they has TWO guys who could do that. When they had 2, you could have 2 TEs running 4.4 and a safety who was forced to make a choice.

That doesn't exist right now in this offense.

Don't be surprised if they look fior a burner of a TE in the draft.

Right, but what Gruden was saying is he is tired of the "no weapons" excuse. It was our week 12 game last night. We should have a decent handle on how to use this year's weapons by now. And last year he didn't really need to look at his second read which no one really mentioned. Obviously, that won't work forever. I think Gruden meant that Kap needs to just step up. If that means going to his second read, so be it. We can differ on that, but I don't see anything wrong with his comment.

And, how many teams really have "two burners" at TE?
I have a question off subject n I cant make a thread bc im new..anyway is it just me or does it seem like the niners play better on the road.then at home..? only game we def should have lost on the road is at seattle this year..
Originally posted by jersey49er:
I have a question off subject n I cant make a thread bc im new..anyway is it just me or does it seem like the niners play better on the road.then at home..? only game we def should have lost on the road is at seattle this year..

well for this season it seems like we play better against s**tty teams and then have dog fights and eventually lose against the good teams.
PASS RUSH AND JUSTIN SMITH
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
I have a question off subject n I cant make a thread bc im new..anyway is it just me or does it seem like the niners play better on the road.then at home..? only game we def should have lost on the road is at seattle this year..

well for this season it seems like we play better against s**tty teams and then have dog fights and eventually lose against the good teams.


isn't that how its supposed 2 be..? makes sense if u play better against worse teams bc they r worse teams..lol play tight against better teams bc they r a better team..so im unsure wat u mean..
Originally posted by jersey49er:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
I have a question off subject n I cant make a thread bc im new..anyway is it just me or does it seem like the niners play better on the road.then at home..? only game we def should have lost on the road is at seattle this year..

well for this season it seems like we play better against s**tty teams and then have dog fights and eventually lose against the good teams.


isn't that how its supposed 2 be..? makes sense if u play better against worse teams bc they r worse teams..lol play tight against better teams bc they r a better team..so im unsure wat u mean..

well last season we beat the good teams and dropped games to other average team. this year we've lost them, it can change, but its concerning to me.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Wasn't suggesting he hasn't missed guys.

My point all along that its several things, not any ONE thing that is the difference. He's missing his second reads because last year he seldom even had to look to a second read. Why? They had different personnel and Roman was able to give him some great looks at players running wide open.

Thats a function of the scheme working, personnel that could challenge vertically, and a QB with a huge and accurate arm.

Whats changed? Personnel. While the guys they have no aren't terrible, they are DIFFERENT than what they had last year.

Example, Would I take Tony Gonzales in his prime over Vernon right now? No. Without a second thought I take Vernon. Is it because I think Vernon is so much better than Tony was? Not even close. Tony was better. Vernon tho presents a challenge to defenses that the 49ers need BADLY. He can challenge vertically at a TE. He allows yoy to line up in power formations and still throw deep. When they had Delanie they has TWO guys who could do that. When they had 2, you could have 2 TEs running 4.4 and a safety who was forced to make a choice.

That doesn't exist right now in this offense.

Don't be surprised if they look fior a burner of a TE in the draft.

Right, but what Gruden was saying is he is tired of the "no weapons" excuse. It was our week 12 game last night. We should have a decent handle on how to use this year's weapons by now. And last year he didn't really need to look at his second read which no one really mentioned. Obviously, that won't work forever. I think Gruden meant that Kap needs to just step up. If that means going to his second read, so be it. We can differ on that, but I don't see anything wrong with his comment.

And, how many teams really have "two burners" at TE?


Correct....but my point is that anyone with a clue isn't saying they have "no weapons". They are saying "he doesn't have weapons with the vertical skillset that the weapons he had last year did". Essentially, they are dumbing down the argument in order to make fun of it.

How many? None. The Niners did tho LAST YEAR and that's why the offense was able to function the way it did.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 26, 2013 at 11:46 AM ]
Damn good review OP.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
I have a question off subject n I cant make a thread bc im new..anyway is it just me or does it seem like the niners play better on the road.then at home..? only game we def should have lost on the road is at seattle this year..

well for this season it seems like we play better against s**tty teams and then have dog fights and eventually lose against the good teams.


isn't that how its supposed 2 be..? makes sense if u play better against worse teams bc they r worse teams..lol play tight against better teams bc they r a better team..so im unsure wat u mean..

well last season we beat the good teams and dropped games to other average team. this year we've lost them, it can change, but its concerning to me.


if we lost to s**tty teams I think all this 49ers webzone would be going a lot more crazy about the 49ers then they already are when in all hoesty I think there best football is still to come ..mark my words we will be the hottest healthiest team going in to the playoffs n no1 will want to face us..
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I never said it was a "renaissance game" for Kap. In fact my point is that they CAN'T have the same offense they had last year because they don't have the components. They can be BETTER when Crab comes back, but IMO it's Delanie Walker that they could really use right now.

Roman needs to adjust. I am not saying he's done perfectly. I'm only saying it isn't any ONE thing. Its a combination of all of them.

Well, the concept of Roman "adjusting" is to invent more gadget plays and formations! The exact opposite of what he needs to do!. He needs to go the other way -- keep a bland pro set, run gore up the middle and playfake to gore, pass deep to VD all off the same look. And do it 25 seconds snap to snap to snap! That will put teams on their heels. They are used to having 45 seconds to diagnose everything. I like how Kap came up yesterday to the line fast, even though it resulted in some time outs (after the game was out of reach). That's ok, growing pains. Keep it going from the same formations.

And dump the ball to the backs will ya!!! They are WIDE OPEN A LOT!@!

Oh, and Brooks is definitely having an all pro season -- 1st team.
Its amazing to see when our pass rush is effective, it solves most of the defensive problems. The entire Defense looked unreal last night as RGIII had to consistently lookout for Aldon and Brooks coming at him. Suddenly our CBs and S's are not liabilities and we give up under 150 passing yards.

Realistically instead of being the favorite team going into the playoffs with a 14-2 record or whatever, we will play the "no one believes in us" card and roll into the playoffs like that, just like Giants and Ravens have done in the past to win the Superbowl. I just hope that come week 17 and Wild Card weekend, our Offense starts to click and we get rolling.

Lets not forget Ravens were average last season, fired their Off coordinator and won Superbowl with Flacco, Boldin, Pitta, Smith, Jones and Rice all on the same page.
Originally posted by Canadian9erfan:
Its amazing to see when our pass rush is effective, it solves most of the defensive problems. The entire Defense looked unreal last night as RGIII had to consistently lookout for Aldon and Brooks coming at him. Suddenly our CBs and S's are not liabilities and we give up under 150 passing yards.

Realistically instead of being the favorite team going into the playoffs with a 14-2 record or whatever, we will play the "no one believes in us" card and roll into the playoffs like that, just like Giants and Ravens have done in the past to win the Superbowl. I just hope that come week 17 and Wild Card weekend, our Offense starts to click and we get rolling.

Lets not forget Ravens were average last season, fired their Off coordinator and won Superbowl with Flacco, Boldin, Pitta, Smith, Jones and Rice all on the same page.