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Passing game is gonna have to set up the run from here on out..

I know call me captain obvious but, we're going to need the pass to set up the run these final games. Rams, Seahawks, Tampa, and the Cards all have good to really good defenses and they will sell out to stop the run. Hopefully getting Crabs back will add another dimension to the passing game to help loosen up these good defenses. Our 4 losses have been us running our heads into brick walls time and time again with a less than effective running attack. These teams all have the potential to shut down Frank and company so it is going to be imperative for us to continue the development of the passing attack to do some damage against these teams. No more gimmies on the schedule..
Originally posted by jays9ers:
I know call me captain obvious but, we're going to need the pass to set up the run these final games. Rams, Seahawks, Tampa, and the Cards all have good to really good defenses and they will sell out to stop the run. Hopefully getting Crabs back will add another dimension to the passing game to help loosen up these good defenses. Our 4 losses have been us running our heads into brick walls time and time again with a less than effective running attack. These teams all have the potential to shut down Frank and company so it is going to be imperative for us to continue the development of the passing attack to do some damage against these teams. No more gimmies on the schedule..
Agree. Getting crab and Rio back now may be right on time
It's always been, you take what the defense gives you. You run when the time is right or when they least expect it. When you have second down and 7 yards to go and the defense has 9 men in the box and you have boldin and manningham on the outside one on one, you don't try to run up the middle like Roman did several times tonight. I sometimes question Romans play calling. He is trying to give Kaep too many plays at a time. Gruden said that he sometimes gives Kaep three plays to run at a time. It's no wonder Kaep doesn't have time at the line to make adjustments. There's too much shifting at the line. When they do that you don't see the defense move at all. They need to get back to basic WCO and play ball.
Originally posted by rudedog:
It's always been, you take what the defense gives you. You run when the time is right or when they least expect it. When you have second down and 7 yards to go and the defense has 9 men in the box and you have boldin and manningham on the outside one on one, you don't try to run up the middle like Roman did several times tonight. I sometimes question Romans play calling. He is trying to give Kaep too many plays at a time. Gruden said that he sometimes gives Kaep three plays to run at a time. It's no wonder Kaep doesn't have time at the line to make adjustments. There's too much shifting at the line. When they do that you don't see the defense move at all. They need to get back to basic WCO and play ball.

Thats been our problem, we've been running against 9 man fronts all season. And the fact that we call 3 different plays to choose from seems like an awful lot to me. It's time to take the training wheels off and just open it up a bit and throw the darn ball. The run game will always be there.
You mean like a traditional WCO....holy s**t.



But yes, it really would help if they stopped continuing to insist on running the ball almost every first down in spite of the other team having 8 or 9 guys in the box.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You mean like a traditional WCO....holy s**t.



But yes, it really would help if they stopped continuing to insist on running the ball almost every first down in spite of the other team having 8 or 9 guys in the box.

DEAR GOD we have to stop running on EVERY first down. How many second and long 3rd and longs did we have tonight?? At least we converted a few tonight.
  • ace52
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 284
Maybe now if we DO pass on first down, it will be a big gain because every team in the NFL will think that the Niners only run on first downs.
Originally posted by ace52:
Maybe now if we DO pass on first down, it will be a big gain because every team in the NFL will think that the Niners only run on first downs.

This. Its not enough for the 49ers to pass on a single first down, if teams keep stacking the box, they need to keep passing until the other team abandons that defensive strategy and then let them have it with the running game.
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,974
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html
This is a good point.

Frankly, you don't even need a good D to stop our run anymore. It's been figured out, bottomline is just a numbers game. Stuff the box with 8 or more and any team will be able to shut down our run game.

Our O leverages on our passing game now. It needs to get back to a point whereby we can consistently score points to regain some respect from the opposing D in order to take men away from their run defense.
Originally posted by Rascal:
This is a good point.

Frankly, you don't even need a good D to stop our run anymore. It's been figured out, bottomline is just a numbers game. Stuff the box with 8 or more and any team will be able to shut down our run game.

Our O leverages on our passing game now. It needs to get back to a point whereby we can consistently score points to regain some respect from the opposing D in order to take men away from their run defense.

They have to force defenses out of their gameplan. Guaranteed the Rams will be planning on stuffing the box, yet they are vulnerable in their secondary. 49ers need to come up with a creative gameplan that encompasses a lot of quick throws...slants..etc. Rams continue to play off the receiver as much as the 49ers do, that should be taken advantage of. If they hit them hard with the passing game, the Rams will have to adjust their gameplan and that is always the best thing you can do, force a defense to adjust, to get away from what they've been practicing for all week long.
Originally posted by jays9ers:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You mean like a traditional WCO....holy s**t.



But yes, it really would help if they stopped continuing to insist on running the ball almost every first down in spite of the other team having 8 or 9 guys in the box.

DEAR GOD we have to stop running on EVERY first down. How many second and long 3rd and longs did we have tonight?? At least we converted a few tonight.

I was trying to just keep an informal count of runs on 1st downs, and I think it was somewhere around 12 runs on 20 1st down plays...in and of itself not a totally disproportionate number, but when nearly every one of them was against an 8-9 man box and averaged probably less than 3 ypc, then maybe mix it up a bit more? And I don't know how many of those were a called run and CK let it ride, or maybe some were passes that he checked into a run...whatever the case, it rarely worked.

I thought it a positive that they tried a pitch sweep here and RB screen there...again, neither worked, but at least they were showing/trying something different.
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
I was trying to just keep an informal count of runs on 1st downs, and I think it was somewhere around 12 runs on 20 1st down plays...in and of itself not a totally disproportionate number, but when nearly every one of them was against an 8-9 man box and averaged probably less than 3 ypc, then maybe mix it up a bit more? And I don't know how many of those were a called run and CK let it ride, or maybe some were passes that he checked into a run...whatever the case, it rarely worked.

I thought it a positive that they tried a pitch sweep here and RB screen there...again, neither worked, but at least they were showing/trying something different.

This. The problem is you can't run those plays effectively if you only do it once.....and then pack it away.
When they're putting 8-9 guys in the box...I'd say that's a pretty strong indication of the run opening up the pass just by reputation. Teams are saying we know we can't normally stop your run game so we're going to sell out on it and risk your passing game. Until the passing game shows up consistently like it did tonight, teams will keep stacking the box. We have to run enough to keep them doing it though...even if that means a 1 yard gain every few plays.
Astute observation, the pass is there on first down. Coach Walsh used to pass early and run late.