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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by bzborow1:
As an avid baseball fan, I liken Kaepernick's situation to that of the major league pitcher. Most of the time the good ones will break onto the scene and find immediate success. However, once teams have had time to see the pitcher's arsenal, what he likes to throw and when, that same pitcher begins to come down to Earth a little bit. Some will struggle mightily once teams have figured him out, while the very few will experience smooth sailing. Kaepernick's situation I find strikingly similar in that teams didn't know what to make of the guy, they hadn't seen nor had enough time to process the footage and dissect the scheme's let alone Kaep's tendencies. Well, this season they have, and now it is on both the offensive coordinator to adjust the game plan and for Kaepernick to recognize the changes they are throwing at him.

This loss hurts, but to lose 23-20 on the road against a now 8-2 team is hardly the sign of QB heading to NFL purgatory nor the 49ers drifting from relevance.


Regarding your last comment, Kaepernick had nothing to do with how closely we played the Saints; It was our defense that kept us in the game. Kaepernick caught a huge break when the Saints DB coughed up the pick 6 which turned into a touchback. Therefore, I'm not even that mad about the penalty at the end which negated Brees' fumble; we were supposed to lose that game, anyway, because of awful Qb play.
[ Edited by AMBITION on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:59 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by reasonable1:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

Kaep also played at a D1 school and played some pretty good teams along the way. Stop the f**kin madness with the excuses man. I expect better from a poster like yourself.


Dude. Seriously?

Go reread what I said. Where am I "defending" him?

I noted SEVERAL factors at work INCLUDING his poor play. He hasn't played well. Nobody is arguing that. It appears tho on this forum if you simply try to figure out logically WHY he might be struggling that is just pointless and an excuse. If I said anything less that "Its all Kaps fault, lets find another QB" then I'm just biased and a homer.

Sorry man...that ain't me. I don't turn on a player like that. Several years ago I know several on here that wanted to ax Vernon. Several wanted to get rid of Crab. Now we desparately want those guys playing.

This is no different.

i agree with being patient, but this is a bit different. 1) he plays the qb position which is going to take more heat when it doesnt go well 2) when crab and vernon were considered busts, we werent s**t as a team. the thought was flip them and get something since we're going nowhere. kaep is leading a team with super bowl visions, his feet are going to be held to fire a lot more than a under performing te and wr on 7 or 8 win football teams.
Originally posted by crabman82:
playing in the super bowl last year means jack s**t now. the fact it needs to be worded 'played' in the super bowl and not 'won' the super bowl is how i know its irrelevant.

Right. Winning would have been nice. But, he must have done something right to get there. Everything that happened last year showed us that it's possible for him to be a great player. Usually stuff like that does not happen by accident. Bottom line is it's a team sport and to place everything on his shoulders is ridiculous. Yes, it starts with the QB but if your O-Line is not performing, your coordinator is suspect, your run game is a hit or miss, and your WR's are pedestrian it's unlikely that you're going to find much success. I completely agree with everyone here that he's struggling at times and can improve but there is so much more to it.

Marvin has valid points. There are A LOT of young QB's that struggle to start their career. It will be interesting to see what Kap turns into a few years from now.
Great write-up
Originally posted by gm5689:
Originally posted by crabman82:
playing in the super bowl last year means jack s**t now. the fact it needs to be worded 'played' in the super bowl and not 'won' the super bowl is how i know its irrelevant.

Right. Winning would have been nice. But, he must have done something right to get there. Everything that happened last year showed us that it's possible for him to be a great player. Usually stuff like that does not happen by accident. Bottom line is it's a team sport and to place everything on his shoulders is ridiculous. Yes, it starts with the QB but if your O-Line is not performing, your coordinator is suspect, your run game is a hit or miss, and your WR's are pedestrian it's unlikely that you're going to find much success. I completely agree with everyone here that he's struggling at times and can improve but there is so much more to it.

Marvin has valid points. There are A LOT of young QB's that struggle to start their career. It will be interesting to see what Kap turns into a few years from now.

a lot of young qbs struggle. barely any of them had the hype kaep has had. whether it was fair or not, the hype boxed him in where if he didnt live up to a certain level he was going to take more heat than say andy dalton or another young qb.
Originally posted by crabman82:
a lot of young qbs struggle. barely any of them had the hype kaep has had. whether it was fair or not, the hype boxed him in where if he didnt live up to a certain level he was going to take more heat than say andy dalton or another young qb.

I completely agree with that statement. He is under so much pressure now because people like Jaws were saying he could be the "best ever."
Originally posted by gm5689:
Originally posted by crabman82:
a lot of young qbs struggle. barely any of them had the hype kaep has had. whether it was fair or not, the hype boxed him in where if he didnt live up to a certain level he was going to take more heat than say andy dalton or another young qb.

I completely agree with that statement. He is under so much pressure now because people like Jaws were saying he could be the "best ever."

i'm old school, i wish he would have laid low and not done all the commercials this offseason. i understand why he did it but i wish he would not have. it fed into the hype.


Bottom Line on all of this….RELAX.

Originally posted by crabman82:
i'm old school, i wish he would have laid low and not done all the commercials this offseason. i understand why he did it but i wish he would not have. it fed into the hype.

Yes. The commercials, magazine covers, all that flash was excessive. I don't know how I feel about the rest of this season. To be honest, I would not be surprised if we missed the playoffs.
Originally posted by AMBITION:
Regarding your last comment, Kaepernick had nothing to do with how closely we played the Saints; It was our defense that kept us in the game. Kaepernick caught a huge break when the Saints DB coughed up the pick 6 which turned into a touchback. Therefore, I'm not even that mad about the penalty at the end which negated Brees' fumble; we were supposed to lose that game, anyway, because of awful Qb play.

I'm not mad either. Our offense had the chance to make big plays and win the game. But we didn't. I have to say that I can't blame that all on Kap. Our run game was awful (where's the O-Line that's the best in the league) and again, our WR's were hardly ever open. I saw Kap miss a few guys that were open a few times but to me, that's to be expected with a young player. Dilfer said Kap is "remedial as a passer" when his first read is not there. My argument is that when his first read is not there, he's either getting pulled down by a DE or his second read is also covered.
  • AZ9er
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Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by reasonable1:
This forum is hilarious. The excuses for this putrid play are eye opening.


An excuse and an explanation are 2 different things.

Some of us would like to understand why he's struggling instead of just saying "he sucks".

You don't like it, feel free not to read or comment.

Well said!
[ Edited by AZ9er on Nov 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM ]
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by reasonable1:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

Kaep also played at a D1 school and played some pretty good teams along the way. Stop the f**kin madness with the excuses man. I expect better from a poster like yourself.


Dude. Seriously?

Go reread what I said. Where am I "defending" him?

I noted SEVERAL factors at work INCLUDING his poor play. He hasn't played well. Nobody is arguing that. It appears tho on this forum if you simply try to figure out logically WHY he might be struggling that is just pointless and an excuse. If I said anything less that "Its all Kaps fault, lets find another QB" then I'm just biased and a homer.

Sorry man...that ain't me. I don't turn on a player like that. Several years ago I know several on here that wanted to ax Vernon. Several wanted to get rid of Crab. Now we desparately want those guys playing.

This is no different.

i agree with being patient, but this is a bit different. 1) he plays the qb position which is going to take more heat when it doesnt go well 2) when crab and vernon were considered busts, we werent s**t as a team. the thought was flip them and get something since we're going nowhere. kaep is leading a team with super bowl visions, his feet are going to be held to fire a lot more than a under performing te and wr on 7 or 8 win football teams.


Don't buy it.

Peeps wanted to ax Vernon because they thought he sucked. They wanted to get rid of Crabtree because he "didn't want to be a Niner" and wasn't very good. He also couldn't stay healthy (hrmm).

Yes...QBs get more of the heat...but that doesn't mean WE have to be that way. People will always give too much blame or to much credit to the QB. That doesn't mean we are mindless sheep and have to follow the herd. IE...the fact the the Qb usually shoulders the blame isn't in itself a reason to blame him. Perception isn't always reality.

WHY is Kap leading a team with SB visions to begin with? He's leading it because they DIDN'T give up on players like Vernon and Crab.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM ]
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by 9erReign:
OK you guys got me. We beat the Cards. That is the best team we beat this year. I feel so foolish now. Losing to all the probable playoff teams we played this year isn't concerning at all.

its totally concerning, those painting it as not concerning are not being honest with themselves.

Another way to look at it is better to lose to them now, than in the playoffs.

Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by Marvin49:

How often last year did we see him throing to guys that weren't just open, but open by 5-10 YARDS. These throws haven't been there this year because the entire field has been condensed. Teams are able to crowd the line much more than they did late last year.

Because Kaep isn't making reads and throws to beat them. I'd love to blame this on Walker and Crabtree being out/gone, but the difference from last year to this is far too staggering. 9/10 pass plays are to the sideline. It's probably a bit by design, and a bit on Kaep, but you almost never see Kaepernick throw over the middle of the field unless it's a bomb.

I think it's both playcalling and CK, but I would put more "blame" on playcalling. We continually see "straight-line" routes with everything condensed in a 10-yard box. In my opinion that there needs to be more, MUCH more, "east-west" type routes: slants, crosses, rubs, square-in...routes where the receiver isn't just running, turning around, and facing the QB while effectively "standing still", which makes gaining YAC that much harder...on the slants, etc., there's a greater chance for that elusive separation, these are routes that can be thrown with shorter/quicker drops, and well-thrown/timed passes give the receiver a chance to RUN AFTER THE CATCH because he's getting the ball in stride.

And that's not even getting into screens or swings that could be set up for the RBs, especially LMJ.

As for the deep passing game, it seems most are seam routes to the TE...anything deep to a WR is down the sideline, which can be a bit more "safe" but requires a good deal of accuracy to drop it in. But have we even seen a deep POST to a WR all year? I don't want to hear you need a 4.3 guy to run post routes...sure it helps, but it's not a showstopper if you don't have him, unless one believes a guy like Manningham is incapable of running a post route and going up to make a play on the ball if he doesn't happen to be NFL "wide open".
[ Edited by DelCed2486 on Nov 18, 2013 at 1:28 PM ]
I appreciate your comment Marv and please keep up the good work.

IMO, Kap is slowly being ruined by this situation and he needs help.

I totally disagree w/many that heap it all on him. As you, Marvin, pointed out he does shoulder some of the responsibility.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes BUT it's clear to me Kap needs a mentor to:

a). Help him w/the press. He looks frustrated and lost with them. Why put him through that? Not necessary at all.

b). Address his increasing hesitancy w/the ball. I think [I]m just guessing] it's in part to the horrendous play calling. Come on man - it is very bad.

c). I don't know how the plays are coming in. If JH is changing the plays Roman sends in or Roman changes them or Kap changes them but the result looks discombobulated. It seems it's down to the last second before a delay of game penalty is called. This can't be helping Kap at all.

d). He needs a much better QB coach than Morton. Clearly, he has regressed. He looked his old self on a few plays especially the over the shoulder pass to Boldin and the rocket to VD. Without a doubt something is missing and he needs someone other than we have on our staff to get him out of his funk.

I feel the majority of the situation falls on the coaching staff. The sky isn't falling but at this point we are most definitely not playing Championship caliber ball.