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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by Marvin49:

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

Maybe. He physically wants it. He's a physical stud who works out like a machine, but I'm not sure other than that. Yes he's a smart dude, but It's become pretty apparent that he's either neglecting film study or just not understanding it. He has trouble reading defenses and telegraphs everything he does. Looking back, I think a lot of his success last year was unfortunately because of brute force approach with his physical gifts than actually playing fundamental football. The story of the 400 lb. running back in high school makes me think of Kaep. The kid is dominating in high school because no one can tackle him, but what's going to happen in college when he can't rely on physical traits as much and has to deal with stronger and smarter players that know how to tackle him?
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.
Originally posted by crabman82:
marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.

Yeah and how many of those young QB's you speak of have played in a Super Bowl? Yes, Kap is struggling. But it is obvious that there are far more issues than just his. You use Wilson as an example. Now, look at what he has around him. I would rather have every single one of their WR's over ours (excluding Crabtree). Baldwin (Seahawks version) is growing and has been impressive, Tate is young and a "faster version" of Hines Ward, they've got Harvin etc. Who do we have? Anquan Boldin is great under the right circumstances, Jon Baldwin is likely a bust, Manningham is OK at best, Osgood? Don't get me started. We can't always rely on Vernon to get open all the time. I heard a stat that Kap is the most successful QB taken out of the 2011 draft thus far. Not sure where I heard that, but it's interesting. We are a one dimensional team right now. If the run is not there, we lose. Usually.
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by Marvin49:

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

Maybe. He physically wants it. He's a physical stud who works out like a machine, but I'm not sure other than that. Yes he's a smart dude, but It's become pretty apparent that he's either neglecting film study or just not understanding it. He has trouble reading defenses and telegraphs everything he does. Looking back, I think a lot of his success last year was unfortunately because of brute force approach with his physical gifts than actually playing fundamental football. The story of the 400 lb. running back in high school makes me think of Kaep. The kid is dominating in high school because no one can tackle him, but what's going to happen in college when he can't rely on physical traits as much and has to deal with stronger and smarter players that know how to tackle him?


Nah, I think last years success had alot more to do with the supporting cast creating huge amounts of space.

How often last year did we see him throing to guys that weren't just open, but open by 5-10 YARDS. These throws haven't been there this year because the entire field has been condensed. Teams are able to crowd the line much more than they did late last year.

Kap needs to learn to be able to throw into tighter windows and come off the first read quicker.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:42 PM ]
The things I'm worried about going forward are obviously Kaps play and Romans play calling. Pass protection I'm a little concerned about.

I have a couple concerns about the defense which sounds kinda funny considering how well they have been playing. There is no push up the middle. This applies to our run defense and our pass rush. We use to dominate the line of scrimmage and push offensive linemen back into the backfield. Now teams are lightweight gashing us up the middle in the run game and quarterbacks are having a nice pocket to step up into in the pass game. We have to get that stout run D and great push up the middle back. Otherwise Fangio may need to alter our defense from more basic to exotic with more pressure up the gut.

IF Kap and Roman pull their heads out of their asses and our defense tightens up the run defense and the pass rush, we can beat anyone anywhere.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

If he's so smart then why does he get rattled when his first read doesn't pan out? He has awful pocket awareness for a tall and quick dude. The only reason why he was successful last year was because nobody knew about him at first; not this year.
Originally posted by gm5689:
Originally posted by crabman82:
marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.

Yeah and how many of those young QB's you speak of have played in a Super Bowl? Yes, Kap is struggling. But it is obvious that there are far more issues than just his. You use Wilson as an example. Now, look at what he has around him. I would rather have every single one of their WR's over ours (excluding Crabtree). Baldwin (Seahawks version) is growing and has been impressive, Tate is young and a "faster version" of Hines Ward, they've got Harvin etc. Who do we have? Anquan Boldin is great under the right circumstances, Jon Baldwin is likely a bust, Manningham is OK at best, Osgood? Don't get me started. We can't always rely on Vernon to get open all the time. I heard a stat that Kap is the most successful QB taken out of the 2011 draft thus far. Not sure where I heard that, but it's interesting. We are a one dimensional team right now. If the run is not there, we lose. Usually.

playing in the super bowl last year means jack s**t now. the fact it needs to be worded 'played' in the super bowl and not 'won' the super bowl is how i know its irrelevant.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

Kaep also played at a D1 school and played some pretty good teams along the way. Stop the f**kin madness with the excuses man. I expect better from a poster like yourself.
Originally posted by reasonable1:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

Kaep also played at a D1 school and played some pretty good teams along the way. Stop the f**kin madness with the excuses man. I expect better from a poster like yourself.

i like marv and what he contributes but sometimes when it comes to kaep i think he tries a little too hard to defend him in certain situations. he is not alone though, its normal fan behaviour. its not really possible to try to analyze the game unbiased while being a fan of that team.
As an avid baseball fan, I liken Kaepernick's situation to that of the major league pitcher. Most of the time the good ones will break onto the scene and find immediate success. However, once teams have had time to see the pitcher's arsenal, what he likes to throw and when, that same pitcher begins to come down to Earth a little bit. Some will struggle mightily once teams have figured him out, while the very few will experience smooth sailing. Kaepernick's situation I find strikingly similar in that teams didn't know what to make of the guy, they hadn't seen nor had enough time to process the footage and dissect the scheme's let alone Kaep's tendencies. Well, this season they have, and now it is on both the offensive coordinator to adjust the game plan and for Kaepernick to recognize the changes they are throwing at him.

This loss hurts, but to lose 23-20 on the road against a now 8-2 team is hardly the sign of QB heading to NFL purgatory nor the 49ers drifting from relevance. On the positive side, Kaepernick started recognizing when to throw the ball out of bounds, and at least early on he looked like he was making quick reads and delivering the ball on time. Once he gets that part, it'll open up the ground game for him again.
[ Edited by bzborow1 on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:

How often last year did we see him throing to guys that weren't just open, but open by 5-10 YARDS. These throws haven't been there this year because the entire field has been condensed. Teams are able to crowd the line much more than they did late last year.

Because Kaep isn't making reads and throws to beat them. I'd love to blame this on Walker and Crabtree being out/gone, but the difference from last year to this is far too staggering. 9/10 pass plays are to the sideline. It's probably a bit by design, and a bit on Kaep, but you almost never see Kaepernick throw over the middle of the field unless it's a bomb.
Originally posted by bzborow1:
As an avid baseball fan, I liken Kaepernick's situation to that of the major league pitcher. Most of the time the good ones will break onto the scene and find immediate success. However, once teams have had time to see the pitcher's arsenal, what he likes to throw and when, that same pitcher begins to come down to Earth a little bit. Some will struggle mightily once teams have figured him out, while the very few will experience smooth sailing. Kaepernick's situation I find strikingly similar in that teams didn't know what to make of the guy, they hadn't seen nor had enough time to process the footage and dissect the scheme's let alone Kaep's tendencies. Well, this season they have, and now it is on both the offensive coordinator to adjust the game plan and for Kaepernick to recognize the changes they are throwing at him.

This loss hurts, but to lose 23-20 on the road against a now 8-2 team is hardly the sign of QB heading to NFL purgatory nor the 49ers drifting from relevance.

sooooooooooooo hes dontrelle willis?
Originally posted by AMBITION:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

If he's so smart then why does he get rattled when his first read doesn't pan out? He has awful pocket awareness for a tall and quick dude. The only reason why he was successful last year was because nobody knew about him at first; not this year.

One has nothing to do with the other.

I don't know if he will ever become a great progression QB. I'm just not willing to give up on him so soon in his career. We saw last year how talented he is. What we see now is the NFL adapting to him along with issues in personnel. It's on him and Roman/Harbaugh to adapt back and force teams to pay when they play him the way they have been. Thats what they have been attempting to do. All those back shoulder throws to Boldin are a big piece of that. Getting Crab back (not because he's the greatest WR ever...simply because he's a good WR who can beat man-to-man coverage) will be huge in that process.

IF he can do that, then it will force defenses to adapt again to find something that works.

Its a chess match. The Niners are losing right now. The cool thing is that most of the time there is another chance to get better next week.
Originally posted by reasonable1:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

Kaep also played at a D1 school and played some pretty good teams along the way. Stop the f**kin madness with the excuses man. I expect better from a poster like yourself.


Dude. Seriously?

Go reread what I said. Where am I "defending" him?

I noted SEVERAL factors at work INCLUDING his poor play. He hasn't played well. Nobody is arguing that. It appears tho on this forum if you simply try to figure out logically WHY he might be struggling that is just pointless and an excuse. If I said anything less that "Its all Kaps fault, lets find another QB" then I'm just biased and a homer.

Sorry man...that ain't me. I don't turn on a player like that. Several years ago I know several on here that wanted to ax Vernon. Several wanted to get rid of Crab. Now we desparately want those guys playing.

This is no different.
Originally posted by bzborow1:
This loss hurts, but to lose 23-20 on the road against a now 8-2 team is hardly the sign of QB heading to NFL purgatory nor the 49ers drifting from relevance.

I think most of us are upset with the loss, but most of us would still be very upset even if we had pulled off a win because of the concerning deficiencies we're seeing on offense. Having a combined 200 yards passing over 2 games, and a complete inability to move the ball. If our defense wasn't so good our last 2 games would've been as bad or worse as the 29-3 game against Seattle earlier this year.

Without turnovers this offense maybe scores 0 points the last 2 games. That's nuts, and it's a reality.
[ Edited by Disp on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM ]