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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

For those of you who want Alex back, just look how he fared against the Broncos.

Unimpressive.
Originally posted by dobophile:
I hate the way you spell though.


Thats OK tho.
Originally posted by 9erReign:
This year against winning teams:
13/28 127yards 46.4% 4.54yard average 19 long 0TD's 3INT's 14.0QBR 20.1Rating
13/27 150yards 48.1% 5.56yard average 30 long 0TD's 1INT 11.8QBR 49.9Rating
11/22 91 yards 50.0% 4.14yard average 14 long 0TD's 1INT 7.7QBR 42.0Rating
17/31 127 yards 54.8% 4.10 yard average 17 long 2TD's 1INT 46.0QBR 72.9Rating


That is horrendous. But maybe if we cut Baldwin he will start playing well again. I mean cutting Kyle Williams seemed to fix things. Might as well keep blaming everyone but the QB.


Oh please. At what point did I put it all on the WR?

If you are going to argue with me, argue the point I'm making, not the straw man you create thats easier to argue with.
Originally posted by 9erReign:
It wasn't a fumble. Since he went to the ground in the act of the catch he has to maintain possession through the entire catch (including going to the ground). He bobbled it.

Got it. There's some talk about this in the "Baldwin part of blame". I hate the logic that the WR has to show control while already off the field of play (already out of bounds). My stance is that once he's out of bounds by having his fingernail touch the white, the play is dead and nothing beyond this should be a part of determining whether he has or does not have control. I know I'm just b***hing about a rule.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash


BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are domed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.


I chose Brees because we just played him. I didn't Cherry Pick it at random. There are several similar stories.

The problem is that we are in the "I want it now" stage of football so we all lose perspective.

Yes, rules have changed a bit so its easier to pass. That doesn't make the business of playing football from a mental standpoint any easier. I can't site any examples of players who have struggled recently and turned it around because we haven't seen it yet. My guess is that there are guys have trouble now that will eventually develop into some of the best in the NFl and then 10 years from now someone will make a similar comparison to the one I just made and someone like you will say its ancient history.

You can choose all you want to discount everything I said, but in my personal opinion its folly to disregard history because a couple guys had success right away.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash


BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are doomed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

The reason not to care about Brees is every QB is different. Does the fact that Brees struggled early on and is now a HOF QB mean we should start working on Kaps acceptance speech?? Would we even be talking about Brees right now if he had signed with the Dolphins? Lets stop with comparisons and just focus on what Kap is and isn't doing.


No, it means you don't throw a guy away who is struggling but has shown huge potential...especially after so few starts.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:13 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 9erReign:
It wasn't a fumble. Since he went to the ground in the act of the catch he has to maintain possession through the entire catch (including going to the ground). He bobbled it.

Got it. There's some talk about this in the "Baldwin part of blame". I hate the logic that the WR has to show control while already off the field of play (already out of bounds). My stance is that once he's out of bounds by having his fingernail touch the white, the play is dead and nothing beyond this should be a part of determining whether he has or does not have control. I know I'm just b***hing about a rule.

You probably won't like this either lol
Originally posted by Joecool:
Kap is playing like an idiot. Running out of bounds towards the end of the game when we needed the clock to run.

That I agree with. Huge mistake.
Gotta mention the huge Kickoff return near the end the 1st half by NO. The 49er defense was playing well and it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that NO would not have driven the length of the field to score a TD. Instead, they go 21 yards for a TD. Curious who blew the coverage there on the kickoff return.
Originally posted by 9erReign:
You aren't worried that we haven't beat a winning team all year?

Those teams like the Giants that start off bad and then get hot and win the SB usually beat good teams during the season but end up losing to lesser competition. All the niners have done this year is beat up crappy teams and lose to good ones. We just aren't that good without an NFL QB.

As long as we have Harbaugh I think that we're going to sail this ship right eventually. We're 6-4; i'm not jumping ship, yet.

We hung with the Panthers and Saints (both should've won despite awful QB play). This team still has a lot of great players; we just have to weed out some of the scrubs.
[ Edited by AMBITION on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:18 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash


BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are domed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.


I chose Brees because we just played him. I didn't Cherry Pick it at random. There are several similar stories.

The problem is that we are in the "I want it now" stage of football so we all lose perspective.

Yes, rules have changed a bit so its easier to pass. That doesn't make the business of playing football from a mental standpoint any easier. I can't site any examples of players who have struggled recently and turned it around because we haven't seen it yet. My guess is that there are guys have trouble now that will eventually develop into some of the best in the NFl and then 10 years from now someone will make a similar comparison to the one I just made and someone like you will say its ancient history.

You can choose all you want to discount everything I said, but in my personal opinion its folly to disregard history because a couple guys had success right away.

i feel my perspective on kaep is pretty good. i wasnt one of those people thinking he could throw for 3500 yards and run for 1000 yards and be league mvp. i've watched this league for a long time and totally understand the aspect of regression. hes either regressed or teams have caught up to him and he hasnt adjusted. either way hes playing pretty bad. we as fans over analyze our own teams and like make little excuses for our guys from time to time. yeah some guys dropped passes yesterday, i also know when a rival teams qb plays like s**t, we just say he played like s**t without going over everything with a fine tooth comb to see if their guys dropped passes, missed assignments or whatever. its the nature of the beast, i get it.
  • Disp
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,481
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Now I will give Kap this, if Gore catches that pass (wasn't a great throw though) yesterday and Vance Mcdonald catches that pass down the seam against the Panthers we win both of those games. However, that still does not excuse Kap from his terrible play throughout both of those games.

Exactly, and it bothers me when people mention those "if only so and so caught that pass" or whatever. If only Kaepernick had played at even an NFL average for the other 59:45 rather than Blaine Gabbert level then we wouldn't be in the position where 1 play dictates the outcome of the game. Right now he's failing as fundamental aspects that have nothing to do with the play called; reading defenses, decision making, accuracy.

Right now the defense is playing amazing in every area. Defense and special teams are giving the O plenty of opportunities. It's discouraging to see our quarterback not able to take advantage of constant 8 and 9 man boxes. That should be like shooting fish in a barrel for a qb.
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Now I will give Kap this, if Gore catches that pass (wasn't a great throw though) yesterday and Vance Mcdonald catches that pass down the seam against the Panthers we win both of those games. However, that still does not excuse Kap from his terrible play throughout both of those games.

Exactly, and it bothers me when people mention those "if only so and so caught that pass" or whatever. If only Kaepernick had played at even an NFL average for the other 59:45 rather than Blaine Gabbert level then we wouldn't be in the position where 1 play dictates the outcome of the game. Right now he's failing as fundamental aspects that have nothing to do with the play called; reading defenses, decision making, accuracy.

Right now the defense is playing amazing in every area. Defense and special teams are giving the O plenty of opportunities. It's discouraging to see our quarterback not able to take advantage of constant 8 and 9 man boxes. That should be like shooting fish in a barrel for a qb.

yeah i hate that game people play. for example yesterday despite a dropped pass or anything else you wanna add in, lets take a moment and acknowledge the massive gift kaepernick got on a pick 6 he threw that turned into a touch back.
[ Edited by crabman82 on Nov 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM ]
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash


BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are domed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.


I chose Brees because we just played him. I didn't Cherry Pick it at random. There are several similar stories.

The problem is that we are in the "I want it now" stage of football so we all lose perspective.

Yes, rules have changed a bit so its easier to pass. That doesn't make the business of playing football from a mental standpoint any easier. I can't site any examples of players who have struggled recently and turned it around because we haven't seen it yet. My guess is that there are guys have trouble now that will eventually develop into some of the best in the NFl and then 10 years from now someone will make a similar comparison to the one I just made and someone like you will say its ancient history.

You can choose all you want to discount everything I said, but in my personal opinion its folly to disregard history because a couple guys had success right away.

i feel my perspective on kaep is pretty good. i wasnt one of those people thinking he could throw for 3500 yards and run for 1000 yards and be league mvp. i've watched this league for a long time and totally understand the aspect of regression. hes either regressed or teams have caught up to him and he hasnt adjusted. either way hes playing pretty bad. we as fans over analyze our own teams and like make little excuses for our guys from time to time. yeah some guys dropped passes yesterday, i also know when a rival teams qb plays like s**t, we just say he played like s**t without going over everything with a fine tooth comb to see if their guys dropped passes, missed assignments or whatever. its the nature of the beast, i get it.


I agree with most of that.

I think my point in general is that some people say he's raw. Some people say its the WRs. Some people say its scheme. Some people say he just sucks and will never improve.

I think its a combination of the first 3. No one factor.

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
  • AZ9er
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,483
Great post as usual Marvin. I feel a bit better, I just hope the injuries the team suffered this weekend are not too serious. Can't wait for Crabs to get on the field and if Mannigham continues to improve I like our chances. The team just needs to catch lightning in a bottle and hope other teams ahead of us lose.