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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Good post thanks for bringing me back.
good job marvin.

one of my biggest issues with the offense is the play calling. im sure you saw the plays where they would stack 10 guys in the box on first down and we still ran it, even with 10 sec left on the play clock. we had a very vanilla game plan, and the 2nd half adjustments were few, and thats being generous.
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by ninerfan52:
Marvin, we run a 1960's offense 2 TE's 2 RB's and one receiver, tell me how that works today, it's so conservative!

worked fine with brady when they used hernandez and gronk.


This

Gronk is really a 250 lb WR in a WCO-based offense.

This. The Patriots never ran a one WR offense. With Gronk and Hernandez they were 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB. One of those TE's was always flexed out in the slot or on the outside. So even though it was 2 TE, it was still a spread offense with WCO principles.

I don't know why we're even comparing these two offenses. Our offense doesn't resemble NE's in any way. It's not just the personnel groupings, it's where they are put on the field and how they are used. NE also used the FB very sparingly, often not even carrying one on the roster. They just used a backup TE when one was needed.

I was going to post the same thing but you beat me to it.

Marvin, I enjoy your posts but I think you need to look a lot harder at the offensive scheme we are playing. I agree Kap is struggling, but those (and not you) who keep going on about read progression need to understand we're not running a passing game with an real or significant route trees. There really is no read progression beyond first read and sometimes a second.

1) Pass to Baldwin that he dropped in the endzone and should have been a TD: there was only one place it was going.
2) Back Shoulder throw to Boldin for the TD - same, only one way it was going.
3) TD pass to Vernon, again a designed one receiver (AR) play
4) Deep pass to Baldwin on the sideline that he didn't realise he was getting, same again. I think Baldwin mis-timed this or lost the ball in the lights as suggested.


Kap at this stage is basically being coached and instructed to throw to one designated receiver if the WR is open, or on some cases like the passes to Baldwin to let him go up and try to make a play. If the play breaks down he's being instructed to scramble and try and find someone open.

When the O line fails to provide sufficient pass protection, there's nothing for Kap to do. There is no outlet ball for him on most plays, though Miller seems to be getting this designation on the few where there are, but he's not exactly a threat with ball in hand.


I already know that.

Thats what I meant previously about how the scheme really insulated Kap last year. They were able to get defined looks for him and most often his first read was wide open to him. When people slam Roman, I don't think they are realizing just how WELL that scheme was working at the end of last year. When Crab or Vernon were the AR as you call it...it was working pretty damned well.

That isn't happening anymore.

I know what you are saying about not being a classic read progression and the play is much more based on everyone working in concert to get 1 or 2 guys open. It ain't working as well this year and one of the big reasons is that the personnel they are playing out there can't do what last years personnel could do. Randy Moss is a hell of a decoy. So was Delanie Walker. Those guys were able to create space just with their presence. That makes scheming 1 or 2 guys open much easier. Crabtree was able to separate with his route running. He isn't a burner, but he's Usain Bolt compared to Boldin.

Still tho...both Roman and Kap need to adapt when it ain't working.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 19, 2013 at 8:09 AM ]
Don't forget Ted Ginn. He would have been expensive to keep, but he would have filled 2 roles. A returner who's better than Williams and a receiver that has speed to create space for the guys underneath. They put too much stock on Williams to filled what Ginn provided.
It's the coaching.

Ginn did NOT play well w/us.

Dropped passes etc. Glad he's doing well w/them.
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.

Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.
Whitner had maybe his best game I have seen him as a 49er. whole defense played lights out. just a tough loss. i don't think we will recover from it this year but what say you
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.

Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.


I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.

So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.

Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.


I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.

So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.

I know exactly what you are talking about. The next time Brooks or Reid or Whitner come up to blast someone, to revolt, they should just stop, throw up their hands and back up. LOL
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.

Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.


I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.

So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.

Penalizing these types of tackles will NOT make the league safer. These types of legal tackles are not controllable. HUGE difference between this and leading with the head or launching at a ball carrier or unnecessary force.

Penalizing a team is not going to help the game be better. They just need to hand out fines and suspensions (repeat offenders). The league will not do well if they penalize teams for this. The root of this problem are individual players who refuse to try to tackle using safe technique. The root of the problem isn't a player who reaches his arm out to try and make a tackle. The league can penalize or fine all they want but the QB will NEVER be protected against this type of play. The QB can be protected on excessive force type of play be enforcing the protection rule.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.

Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.


I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.

So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.

I know exactly what you are talking about. The next time Brooks or Reid or Whitner come up to blast someone, to revolt, they should just stop, throw up their hands and back up. LOL


Yeah, that'd be great..maybe take their towel and drape it over their arm like a waiter, do a little bow to the receiver, see if there's anything else they can do to make them comfortable.
I don't think the NFC West is lost. Hear me out. Seattle has to play NO and although I think Seattle will win, NO can beat them. Hopefully they will. Then we play Seattle in SF and hopefully we beat them too. All we would need is Seattle to slip up down the line (maybe against AZ). Of course this would require the Niners to win out which is unlikely the way they have been playing. But what is the point of being a fan if you can't hold onto possibilities and have no faith?
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I don't think the NFC West is lost. Hear me out. Seattle has to play NO and although I think Seattle will win, NO can beat them. Hopefully they will. Then we play Seattle in SF and hopefully we beat them too. All we would need is Seattle to slip up down the line (maybe against AZ). Of course this would require the Niners to win out which is unlikely the way they have been playing. But what is the point of being a fan if you can't hold onto possibilities and have no faith?

basically we're hoping for a 10-1 team to lose 3 in a row while we go undefeated. i dont see it happening. 2 years with the bye had us spoiled, we're gonna have to go the hard route this time.
People were saying we shouldn't have traded Alex Smith long before last weekend.

The argument that "Kap is still young so it's okay" only fly's for struggling teams.. The 49ers benched the winningest QB for Kap, so there is NO excuse to say he is young (especially considering he is regressing by very obvious margins). They did not make Kap the starting QB so he can have a struggling year during the year that the 49ers are the Superbowl favorites. They started him because they thought he was the best QB to win. His style of offense is not a winning style historically, it is a new style.. A new style that teams adjust to, and have adjusted to.

He's playing like a backup quarterback. No it's not all his fault, but to give him a pass is laughable. Thank god to defense can carry the load the remainder of the season.
[ Edited by NinersGiants on Nov 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM ]
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I don't think the NFC West is lost. Hear me out. Seattle has to play NO and although I think Seattle will win, NO can beat them. Hopefully they will. Then we play Seattle in SF and hopefully we beat them too. All we would need is Seattle to slip up down the line (maybe against AZ). Of course this would require the Niners to win out which is unlikely the way they have been playing. But what is the point of being a fan if you can't hold onto possibilities and have no faith?

Love the optimism but yeah not happening. I'm just surprised you did't get the fat grinning Andy Reid in the back of the car gif. Glad you didn't by the way. We need as many positive thinkers as we can find up in here.