It's the coaching.
Ginn did NOT play well w/us.
Dropped passes etc. Glad he's doing well w/them.
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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game
Nov 19, 2013 at 8:37 AM
- LasVegasWally
- Veteran
- Posts: 24,238
Nov 19, 2013 at 9:35 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,181
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.
Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.
Nov 19, 2013 at 9:39 AM
- KD49ers
- Member
- Posts: 97
Whitner had maybe his best game I have seen him as a 49er. whole defense played lights out. just a tough loss. i don't think we will recover from it this year but what say you
Nov 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM
- DelCed2486
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,158
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.
Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.
I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.
So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.
Nov 19, 2013 at 10:24 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,181
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.
Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.
I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.
So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.
I know exactly what you are talking about. The next time Brooks or Reid or Whitner come up to blast someone, to revolt, they should just stop, throw up their hands and back up. LOL
Nov 19, 2013 at 10:35 AM
- Joecool
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,984
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.
Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.
I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.
So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.
Penalizing these types of tackles will NOT make the league safer. These types of legal tackles are not controllable. HUGE difference between this and leading with the head or launching at a ball carrier or unnecessary force.
Penalizing a team is not going to help the game be better. They just need to hand out fines and suspensions (repeat offenders). The league will not do well if they penalize teams for this. The root of this problem are individual players who refuse to try to tackle using safe technique. The root of the problem isn't a player who reaches his arm out to try and make a tackle. The league can penalize or fine all they want but the QB will NEVER be protected against this type of play. The QB can be protected on excessive force type of play be enforcing the protection rule.
Nov 19, 2013 at 11:03 AM
- DelCed2486
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,158
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by loxdoggie:
Want to give props again to probably the best defensive performance (given the opponent and our mostly inept offense) in quite some time. Other than the obvious great plays by Brooks, I thought Whitner defended well against Graham for the most part. In fact, I was really impressed how often we allowed Brees to complete a short underneath pass before we blasted the receiver. This game reminder me more of the Niner D from 2011. If we can keep this up while the O gets back on track, I'd say there is still much to be excited about.
Whitner gave up a TD but I agree, he played inspired football.
I winced though on that play late in the game, think it was a 3rd down for the Saints and they threw a medium-deep sideline pass...it was incomplete, but Whitner came in for a hit as the ball was already falling incomplete, and it WAS a clean/legal hit, but the type where I was bracing for a flag for "defenseless receiver", or "blow to the head" etc. I was thinking maybe he should have just come in and "pushed" him with his hands instead of lowering to use his shoulder pads...but then we see later what happened when Brooks used him arm to hit Brees in the chest.
So thank you Mama Goodell for making me now question good hits in the game of tackle football.
I know exactly what you are talking about. The next time Brooks or Reid or Whitner come up to blast someone, to revolt, they should just stop, throw up their hands and back up. LOL
Yeah, that'd be great..maybe take their towel and drape it over their arm like a waiter, do a little bow to the receiver, see if there's anything else they can do to make them comfortable.
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:05 PM
- Silky
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,813
I don't think the NFC West is lost. Hear me out. Seattle has to play NO and although I think Seattle will win, NO can beat them. Hopefully they will. Then we play Seattle in SF and hopefully we beat them too. All we would need is Seattle to slip up down the line (maybe against AZ). Of course this would require the Niners to win out which is unlikely the way they have been playing. But what is the point of being a fan if you can't hold onto possibilities and have no faith?
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM
- crabman82
- Veteran
- Posts: 16,990
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I don't think the NFC West is lost. Hear me out. Seattle has to play NO and although I think Seattle will win, NO can beat them. Hopefully they will. Then we play Seattle in SF and hopefully we beat them too. All we would need is Seattle to slip up down the line (maybe against AZ). Of course this would require the Niners to win out which is unlikely the way they have been playing. But what is the point of being a fan if you can't hold onto possibilities and have no faith?
basically we're hoping for a 10-1 team to lose 3 in a row while we go undefeated. i dont see it happening. 2 years with the bye had us spoiled, we're gonna have to go the hard route this time.
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:11 PM
- NinersGiants
- Member
- Posts: 38
People were saying we shouldn't have traded Alex Smith long before last weekend.
The argument that "Kap is still young so it's okay" only fly's for struggling teams.. The 49ers benched the winningest QB for Kap, so there is NO excuse to say he is young (especially considering he is regressing by very obvious margins). They did not make Kap the starting QB so he can have a struggling year during the year that the 49ers are the Superbowl favorites. They started him because they thought he was the best QB to win. His style of offense is not a winning style historically, it is a new style.. A new style that teams adjust to, and have adjusted to.
He's playing like a backup quarterback. No it's not all his fault, but to give him a pass is laughable. Thank god to defense can carry the load the remainder of the season.
The argument that "Kap is still young so it's okay" only fly's for struggling teams.. The 49ers benched the winningest QB for Kap, so there is NO excuse to say he is young (especially considering he is regressing by very obvious margins). They did not make Kap the starting QB so he can have a struggling year during the year that the 49ers are the Superbowl favorites. They started him because they thought he was the best QB to win. His style of offense is not a winning style historically, it is a new style.. A new style that teams adjust to, and have adjusted to.
He's playing like a backup quarterback. No it's not all his fault, but to give him a pass is laughable. Thank god to defense can carry the load the remainder of the season.
[ Edited by NinersGiants on Nov 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM ]
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:20 PM
- NinerG94
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,857
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:I don't think the NFC West is lost. Hear me out. Seattle has to play NO and although I think Seattle will win, NO can beat them. Hopefully they will. Then we play Seattle in SF and hopefully we beat them too. All we would need is Seattle to slip up down the line (maybe against AZ). Of course this would require the Niners to win out which is unlikely the way they have been playing. But what is the point of being a fan if you can't hold onto possibilities and have no faith?
Love the optimism but yeah not happening. I'm just surprised you did't get the fat grinning Andy Reid in the back of the car gif. Glad you didn't by the way. We need as many positive thinkers as we can find up in here.
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:22 PM
- Bobbi9698
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,071
Originally posted by Marvin49:
My god...you guys act like he's Jerry Rice. He's averaging 38 yards per game. LOL.
No, I never thought Ginn was JR (by any means) but I think our coaching staff does not maximize what they have and I think the front office does not always figure out how to give them the right players, e.g. A.J. Jenkins--all in all, it has spelled offensive disaster.
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:48 PM
- Marvin49
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 16,501
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
My god...you guys act like he's Jerry Rice. He's averaging 38 yards per game. LOL.
No, I never thought Ginn was JR (by any means) but I think our coaching staff does not maximize what they have and I think the front office does not always figure out how to give them the right players, e.g. A.J. Jenkins--all in all, it has spelled offensive disaster.
You are correct that this team will probably never develop the team so that it has 2 or 3 WRs who top 1000 yards. They may not have a 5000 yard passer at any time in the near future.
THEY AREN'T BUILT THAT WAY. They are a running team.
Again...Ginn not playing last year didn't have anything to do with a failure to develop Ginn. It had to do with him not being as good as Mario Manningham or Randy Moss.
Ginn this year in 10 games: 411 yards
Manningham last year in 12 games: 449 yards.
Moss in 16 games, tho he hardly played in several...particularly before Manningham was hurt: 434 yards.
Thats in an offense that threw the ball ALOT less and had Alex Smith at QB for 9 starts. This is also with Crabtree getting a TON of receptions down the stretch. Ginn is the FOURTH leading receiver on his team because they throw the ball so much more often than the 49ers did last year.
Bottom Line, Ginn couldn't beat out the guys ahead of him. It's really that simple. It isn't because he "wasn't developed". The Dolphins dumped him as well. He's playing well. Good for him...but the Ginn love on this site these days and the way people make out like he is an example of poor choaching in SF....
....it's comical.
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:50 PM
- crabman82
- Veteran
- Posts: 16,990
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
My god...you guys act like he's Jerry Rice. He's averaging 38 yards per game. LOL.
No, I never thought Ginn was JR (by any means) but I think our coaching staff does not maximize what they have and I think the front office does not always figure out how to give them the right players, e.g. A.J. Jenkins--all in all, it has spelled offensive disaster.
You are correct that this team will probably never develop the team so that it has 2 or 3 WRs who top 1000 yards. They may not have a 5000 yard passer at any time in the near future.
THEY AREN'T BUILT THAT WAY. They are a running team.
Again...Ginn not playing last year didn't have anything to do with a failure to develop Ginn. It had to do with him not being as good as Mario Manningham or Randy Moss.
Ginn this year in 10 games: 411 yards
Manningham last year in 12 games: 449 yards.
Moss in 16 games, tho he hardly played in several...particularly before Manningham was hurt: 434 yards.
Thats in an offense that threw the ball ALOT less and had Alex Smith at QB for 9 starts. This is also with Crabtree getting a TON of receptions down the stretch. Ginn is the FOURTH leading receiver on his team because they throw the ball so much more often than the 49ers did last year.
Bottom Line, Ginn couldn't beat out the guys ahead of him. It's really that simple. It isn't because he "wasn't developed". The Dolphins dumped him as well. He's playing well. Good for him...but the Ginn love on this site these days and the way people make out like he is an example of poor choaching in SF....
....it's comical.
the real funny part is nobody wanted ginn to stay as a wr, woulda gladly kept him in the return game, but nobody spoke glowingly of his wr ability, now we made some huge mistake.
Nov 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM
- qnnhan7
- Veteran
- Posts: 34,142
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
My god...you guys act like he's Jerry Rice. He's averaging 38 yards per game. LOL.
No, I never thought Ginn was JR (by any means) but I think our coaching staff does not maximize what they have and I think the front office does not always figure out how to give them the right players, e.g. A.J. Jenkins--all in all, it has spelled offensive disaster.
You are correct that this team will probably never develop the team so that it has 2 or 3 WRs who top 1000 yards. They may not have a 5000 yard passer at any time in the near future.
THEY AREN'T BUILT THAT WAY. They are a running team.
Again...Ginn not playing last year didn't have anything to do with a failure to develop Ginn. It had to do with him not being as good as Mario Manningham or Randy Moss.
Ginn this year in 10 games: 411 yards
Manningham last year in 12 games: 449 yards.
Moss in 16 games, tho he hardly played in several...particularly before Manningham was hurt: 434 yards.
Thats in an offense that threw the ball ALOT less and had Alex Smith at QB for 9 starts. This is also with Crabtree getting a TON of receptions down the stretch. Ginn is the FOURTH leading receiver on his team because they throw the ball so much more often than the 49ers did last year.
Bottom Line, Ginn couldn't beat out the guys ahead of him. It's really that simple. It isn't because he "wasn't developed". The Dolphins dumped him as well. He's playing well. Good for him...but the Ginn love on this site these days and the way people make out like he is an example of poor choaching in SF....
....it's comical.
the real funny part is nobody wanted ginn to stay as a wr, woulda gladly kept him in the return game, but nobody spoke glowingly of his wr ability, now we made some huge mistake.
You're right. Ginn wasn't much when we already have Moss and Manningham last year. But going into this year we had a chance to keep Ginn to at least replace the speed of Moss and have his return. Having Ginn seems good right now. Like back in 2011. When he was creating space for Crabtree, he could have done the same for Boldin, and catch an occasion conversion for us. Coupled with his return game also.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Nov 19, 2013 at 2:01 PM ]