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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Good post Marvin. The lunacy on this board drives me nuts. We are 6-4, and still very much on track to make the playoffs, not 3-7 (Redskins) or 2-8 (Falcons).
Originally posted by Marvin49:
...and my point is that he wasn't on the field last year because he wasn't as good as the #2 and #3 WRs nor the #2 TE...all of which are no longer on the roster either or just returned from injury.

If Ginn WERE still on the roster then he'd have already gotten his shot over Baldwin.

And, what would he have done with it? Would we have put him in a position to succeed?
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
...and my point is that he wasn't on the field last year because he wasn't as good as the #2 and #3 WRs nor the #2 TE...all of which are no longer on the roster either or just returned from injury.

If Ginn WERE still on the roster then he'd have already gotten his shot over Baldwin.

And, what would he have done with it? Would we have put him in a position to succeed?


We'll never know.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,051
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Who fired Ginn? His contract expired. Williams was still under contract. Cheap.

Ginn would still be on the team if he were under contract.

Ok...did Ginn win any games for us while he was here? The point is that this coaching crew does not do the best with what they have. One reason why Russell Wilson looks good while really isn't is that his receivers have been coached to catch whatever is thrown up there and fight for the ball...you don't see that from our young players....

It also helps Wilson that Darrell Bevell is a VERY good play caller/OC. He has been in the NFL for 13 years and directed the Vikings offense that produced career years for Adrian Peterson and Brett Favre. Bevell set passing records QB at Wisconsin that stood from 1993 until 2010.

Greg Roman, OTOH, was a defensive lineman in college and spent most of his time since then as an OL coach. His first real job as OC was with Harbaugh at Stanford where his expertise in offensive blocking schemes earned him the title of "running game coordinator." He also coached TEs and offensive tackles before being named "assistant head coach."

I would say Russell Wilson has the better of the deal.
[ Edited by dj43 on Nov 18, 2013 at 10:06 PM ]
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Good post Marvin. The lunacy on this board drives me nuts. We are 6-4, and still very much on track to make the playoffs, not 3-7 (Redskins) or 2-8 (Falcons).

We'll talk after Redskins vs Niners next week. Kaep blows when under pressure, especially in a hostile environment like the Redskins stadium coming up.
Ginn signed for 700K with the Panthers. Our FO underestimated his talent and let him go in order for the other scrubs to stay (they were cut eventually).
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
3) WRs: OK…as I mentioned before, I think people have a false impression of what the absence of Crabtree, Walker, Moss, Manningham, and even Ginn has meant. It isn't a question of whether those guys are good players. It has to do with what the specific skillset of those players were and how they altered the way defenses responded to them. Boldin has been a great player in his career. What he has NOT been tho at ANY point in his career is fast. He's never stretched the field. In Arizona, they also had Fitz. In Baltimore, they also had Torrey Smith. In SF they've had….yeah. Vernon is that #2 guy. The problem is that he's missed time and that he's often lines up at the end of a line so doesn't always get a clean release. Walker, Moss, Manningham, and Ginn forced defenses to account for them. That creates space. It eliminated double teams. Moreover…if you have a guy pulling over a safety, it forces you to put one man on Crabtree who showed last year an ability to beat man to man coverage and create separation via his route running. Boldin is less able to do so. Is personnel the only reason Kap is struggling? No. Is it a HUGE piece of it? Yes. Is it all simply because Crabtree has been out? No. It's the loss of a number of players on offense and one reason why I'm not all that confident it can be fixed this season. Manningham is showing some signs of life tho. I think WR will be a HUGE focal point this offseason and resigning Crab may have just become priority #1.
I agree that losing those guys has had an impact, however, Drew Brees completed passes to 11 different receivers yesterday. Sean Payton has figured out how to maintain balance in his passing attack without any big stars. HaRo don't seem to be able to put more than 2 WRs on the field at any given time. They just don't seem to have a clue.

Ted Ginn is a classic example. Last year he hardly saw the field except for ST. This year in Carolina, in addition to continuing to be a big time return threat, he has caught 23 passes for an average of 16.8 yards per catch. He beings that "take the top off" threat that allows Stevie Smith and LaFell and others to run underneath. Why was he not used that way last season? Has Ron Rivera suddenly become such an offensive wizard that he can now make Ginn into a legit wide out?

Yes, loss of some players has hurt but history strongly suggests that the greater problem is the limitations of the coaching staff in developing a professional passing game and coaching up WRs to play it.


Ginn hardly saw the field last year because he was outplayed by Mario Manningham and Randy Moss. They don't play more than 2 WRs because they use so many multi TE formations. That's how they are built and it worked last year because they had 2 TEs who could stretch the field. Delanie Walker had the highest yards per catch on the team and of the 19 passes Kap threw in the air over 20 yards, 7 of them were to Walker.

Your assumption is that Harbaugh/Roman don't know how to create a passing offense and that's why Ginn didn't get on the field. Your entire premise is flawed. The passing O worked just fine when they used their multitalented TEs to stretch the field.

This why the loss of BOTH Crabtree and Walker has been so pivotal and why I'm not sure this issue can be resolved this season.

If anything, Roman can be blamed for not adapting to the lack of those players, but Ginn had his shot here and he failed.

Marvin you have to stop making sense the FoxNews crowd in here hates it!
Originally posted by AMBITION:
Ginn signed for 700K with the Panthers. Our FO underestimated his talent and let him go in order for the other scrubs to stay (they were cut eventually).


My god...you guys act like he's Jerry Rice. He's averaging 38 yards per game. LOL.
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
3) WRs: OK…as I mentioned before, I think people have a false impression of what the absence of Crabtree, Walker, Moss, Manningham, and even Ginn has meant. It isn't a question of whether those guys are good players. It has to do with what the specific skillset of those players were and how they altered the way defenses responded to them. Boldin has been a great player in his career. What he has NOT been tho at ANY point in his career is fast. He's never stretched the field. In Arizona, they also had Fitz. In Baltimore, they also had Torrey Smith. In SF they've had….yeah. Vernon is that #2 guy. The problem is that he's missed time and that he's often lines up at the end of a line so doesn't always get a clean release. Walker, Moss, Manningham, and Ginn forced defenses to account for them. That creates space. It eliminated double teams. Moreover…if you have a guy pulling over a safety, it forces you to put one man on Crabtree who showed last year an ability to beat man to man coverage and create separation via his route running. Boldin is less able to do so. Is personnel the only reason Kap is struggling? No. Is it a HUGE piece of it? Yes. Is it all simply because Crabtree has been out? No. It's the loss of a number of players on offense and one reason why I'm not all that confident it can be fixed this season. Manningham is showing some signs of life tho. I think WR will be a HUGE focal point this offseason and resigning Crab may have just become priority #1.
I agree that losing those guys has had an impact, however, Drew Brees completed passes to 11 different receivers yesterday. Sean Payton has figured out how to maintain balance in his passing attack without any big stars. HaRo don't seem to be able to put more than 2 WRs on the field at any given time. They just don't seem to have a clue.

Ted Ginn is a classic example. Last year he hardly saw the field except for ST. This year in Carolina, in addition to continuing to be a big time return threat, he has caught 23 passes for an average of 16.8 yards per catch. He beings that "take the top off" threat that allows Stevie Smith and LaFell and others to run underneath. Why was he not used that way last season? Has Ron Rivera suddenly become such an offensive wizard that he can now make Ginn into a legit wide out?

Yes, loss of some players has hurt but history strongly suggests that the greater problem is the limitations of the coaching staff in developing a professional passing game and coaching up WRs to play it.


Ginn hardly saw the field last year because he was outplayed by Mario Manningham and Randy Moss. They don't play more than 2 WRs because they use so many multi TE formations. That's how they are built and it worked last year because they had 2 TEs who could stretch the field. Delanie Walker had the highest yards per catch on the team and of the 19 passes Kap threw in the air over 20 yards, 7 of them were to Walker.

Your assumption is that Harbaugh/Roman don't know how to create a passing offense and that's why Ginn didn't get on the field. Your entire premise is flawed. The passing O worked just fine when they used their multitalented TEs to stretch the field.

This why the loss of BOTH Crabtree and Walker has been so pivotal and why I'm not sure this issue can be resolved this season.

If anything, Roman can be blamed for not adapting to the lack of those players, but Ginn had his shot here and he failed.

Marvin you have to stop making sense the FoxNews crowd in here hates it!


lol
Great posts as usual Marv keep up the good work.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by AMBITION:
Ginn signed for 700K with the Panthers. Our FO underestimated his talent and let him go in order for the other scrubs to stay (they were cut eventually).


My god...you guys act like he's Jerry Rice. He's averaging 38 yards per game. LOL.

people absolutely hated him here as a wr. never heard a positive comment on his wr ability.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
3) WRs: OK…as I mentioned before, I think people have a false impression of what the absence of Crabtree, Walker, Moss, Manningham, and even Ginn has meant. It isn't a question of whether those guys are good players. It has to do with what the specific skillset of those players were and how they altered the way defenses responded to them. Boldin has been a great player in his career. What he has NOT been tho at ANY point in his career is fast. He's never stretched the field. In Arizona, they also had Fitz. In Baltimore, they also had Torrey Smith. In SF they've had….yeah. Vernon is that #2 guy. The problem is that he's missed time and that he's often lines up at the end of a line so doesn't always get a clean release. Walker, Moss, Manningham, and Ginn forced defenses to account for them. That creates space. It eliminated double teams. Moreover…if you have a guy pulling over a safety, it forces you to put one man on Crabtree who showed last year an ability to beat man to man coverage and create separation via his route running. Boldin is less able to do so. Is personnel the only reason Kap is struggling? No. Is it a HUGE piece of it? Yes. Is it all simply because Crabtree has been out? No. It's the loss of a number of players on offense and one reason why I'm not all that confident it can be fixed this season. Manningham is showing some signs of life tho. I think WR will be a HUGE focal point this offseason and resigning Crab may have just become priority #1.
I agree that losing those guys has had an impact, however, Drew Brees completed passes to 11 different receivers yesterday. Sean Payton has figured out how to maintain balance in his passing attack without any big stars. HaRo don't seem to be able to put more than 2 WRs on the field at any given time. They just don't seem to have a clue.

Ted Ginn is a classic example. Last year he hardly saw the field except for ST. This year in Carolina, in addition to continuing to be a big time return threat, he has caught 23 passes for an average of 16.8 yards per catch. He beings that "take the top off" threat that allows Stevie Smith and LaFell and others to run underneath. Why was he not used that way last season? Has Ron Rivera suddenly become such an offensive wizard that he can now make Ginn into a legit wide out?

Yes, loss of some players has hurt but history strongly suggests that the greater problem is the limitations of the coaching staff in developing a professional passing game and coaching up WRs to play it.


Ginn hardly saw the field last year because he was outplayed by Mario Manningham and Randy Moss. They don't play more than 2 WRs because they use so many multi TE formations. That's how they are built and it worked last year because they had 2 TEs who could stretch the field. Delanie Walker had the highest yards per catch on the team and of the 19 passes Kap threw in the air over 20 yards, 7 of them were to Walker.

Your assumption is that Harbaugh/Roman don't know how to create a passing offense and that's why Ginn didn't get on the field. Your entire premise is flawed. The passing O worked just fine when they used their multitalented TEs to stretch the field.

This why the loss of BOTH Crabtree and Walker has been so pivotal and why I'm not sure this issue can be resolved this season.

If anything, Roman can be blamed for not adapting to the lack of those players, but Ginn had his shot here and he failed.

Marvin you have to stop making sense the FoxNews crowd in here hates it!


lol

Dude your posts are the only thing that keep me from getting banned! The s**t that I want to say to some of these posters would definitely get me that!
Marvin, we run a 1960's offense 2 TE's 2 RB's and one receiver, tell me how that works today, it's so conservative!
Originally posted by ninerfan52:
Marvin, we run a 1960's offense 2 TE's 2 RB's and one receiver, tell me how that works today, it's so conservative!


SMH. OK.
Originally posted by ninerfan52:
Marvin, we run a 1960's offense 2 TE's 2 RB's and one receiver, tell me how that works today, it's so conservative!

worked fine with brady when they used hernandez and gronk.