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2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Wanted to talk about another issue of late. Is it just me or does it seem as if the opposing teams have been gouging us right up the middle on runs? Sure seems like we are giving up 3-4 yards a pop with our defensive line being pushed backwards most of the time. I know that Dorsey is undersized but where are Bowman and Willis with the support (especially Willis)?

Yesterday both RBs averaged over 4 yards a run.

Jeez, so many things to work on...
Originally posted by pete98146:
Wanted to talk about another issue of late. Is it just me or does it seem as if the opposing teams have been gouging us right up the middle on runs? Sure seems like we are giving up 3-4 yards a pop with our defensive line being pushed backwards most of the time. I know that Dorsey is undersized but where are Bowman and Willis with the support (especially Willis)?

Yesterday both RBs averaged over 4 yards a run.

Jeez, so many things to work on...


I think its because they are trying to stop the run with only the front 7...IE they never put a safety up there. The result is that they are good against the run but not stupendous. The other result is that we are FAR better in pass defense because there are always 2 safeties back there.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 18, 2013 at 4:23 PM ]
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

How often do rookie QB's like Wilson and Luck come along? Really, just take a few moments and look back at the first few years of the starting QB's in the league right now. Brees and Young have been mentioned here as an example. Montana's first few years weren't so hot and he wasn't just thrown in there like Kap was. It seems like a dark time, but let us not forget about how bright it was last year. Neither are the absolute truth of Kap. He does have the upside to play, in a few years, like he did last year. Let's remember what we saw last year. Why are so many of so impatient,so willing to go from one extreme of over optimism to over pessimism? Why are we so quick to become so critical and negative of the players on a team that went to the NFC playoffs and Superbowl the last few years. There are so many here that act like bunch of mean, spoiled kids.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

How often do rookie QB's like Wilson and Luck come along? Really, just take a few moments and look back at the first few years of the starting QB's in the league right now. Brees and Young have been mentioned here as an example. Montana's first few years weren't so hot and he wasn't just thrown in there like Kap was. It seems like a dark time, but let us not forget about how bright it was last year. Neither are the absolute truth of Kap. He does have the upside to play, in a few years, like he did last year. Let's remember what we saw last year. Why are so many of so impatient,so willing to go from one extreme of over optimism to over pessimism? Why are we so quick to become so critical and negative of the players on a team that went to the NFC playoffs and Superbowl the last few years. There are so many here that act like bunch of mean, spoiled kids.

the game changed when flacco and ryan led teams to playoffs as rookies. then a few years later wilson, luck and rg3 come along. you used to groom guys, that doesnt happen anymore. using examples from 10 or 20 years ago doesnt really fit for today IMO
Originally posted by bzborow1:
As an avid baseball fan, I liken Kaepernick's situation to that of the major league pitcher. Most of the time the good ones will break onto the scene and find immediate success. However, once teams have had time to see the pitcher's arsenal, what he likes to throw and when, that same pitcher begins to come down to Earth a little bit. Some will struggle mightily once teams have figured him out, while the very few will experience smooth sailing. Kaepernick's situation I find strikingly similar in that teams didn't know what to make of the guy, they hadn't seen nor had enough time to process the footage and dissect the scheme's let alone Kaep's tendencies. Well, this season they have, and now it is on both the offensive coordinator to adjust the game plan and for Kaepernick to recognize the changes they are throwing at him.

This loss hurts, but to lose 23-20 on the road against a now 8-2 team is hardly the sign of QB heading to NFL purgatory nor the 49ers drifting from relevance. On the positive side, Kaepernick started recognizing when to throw the ball out of bounds, and at least early on he looked like he was making quick reads and delivering the ball on time. Once he gets that part, it'll open up the ground game for him again.

Perspective is good here. Thank you. We lost to a team that anhilated the Cowboys last week by 3 points. Perspective....Somehow I think that after last year everyone was thinking we would dominate the NFC for the next decade. Is that a reasonable vision for this or any team?
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

How often do rookie QB's like Wilson and Luck come along? Really, just take a few moments and look back at the first few years of the starting QB's in the league right now. Brees and Young have been mentioned here as an example. Montana's first few years weren't so hot and he wasn't just thrown in there like Kap was. It seems like a dark time, but let us not forget about how bright it was last year. Neither are the absolute truth of Kap. He does have the upside to play, in a few years, like he did last year. Let's remember what we saw last year. Why are so many of so impatient,so willing to go from one extreme of over optimism to over pessimism? Why are we so quick to become so critical and negative of the players on a team that went to the NFC playoffs and Superbowl the last few years. There are so many here that act like bunch of mean, spoiled kids.


Kap was protected last year by the scheme. The players they had were very good at running that scheme. The players they have now are unable to run the scheme the way they did last year.

Thats why the cast is so huge...they can't do what they did last year because they don't have the horses.

That isn't an excuse. Roman needs to be able to adapt. Kap needs to be able to adapt. You need to be able to win in multiple ways. Otherwise teams will scheme away that one way to win and you are stuck. When you lose players who match your scheme you need to be able to win another way.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 18, 2013 at 4:49 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by pete98146:
Wanted to talk about another issue of late. Is it just me or does it seem as if the opposing teams have been gouging us right up the middle on runs? Sure seems like we are giving up 3-4 yards a pop with our defensive line being pushed backwards most of the time. I know that Dorsey is undersized but where are Bowman and Willis with the support (especially Willis)?

Yesterday both RBs averaged over 4 yards a run.

Jeez, so many things to work on...


I think its because they are trying to stop the run with only the front 7...IE they never put a safety up there. The result is that they are good against the run but not stupendous. The other result is that we are FAR better in pass defense because there are always 2 safeties back there.

It seemed like anyone back there was able to get 4+ yards on first down... no matter who it was.

I'm ready to move on... we CAN AND WILL beat the Redskins.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Kap was protected last year by the scheme. The players they had were very good at running that scheme. The players they have now are unable to run the scheme the way they did last year.

Thats why the cast is so huge...they can't do what they did last year because they don't have the horses.

That isn't an excuse. Roman needs to be able to adapt. Kap needs to be able to adapt. You need to be able to win in multiple ways. Otherwise teams will scheme away that one way to win and you are stuck. When you lose players who match your scheme you need to be able to win another way.
No, the league caught on to the crappy "scheme" and Harbaugh and Roman have been unable or refuse to adjust. Our "genius" scheme consisted of planning to get one guy open or maybe two at the most while everyone else blocks and tries to divert attention away from the AR. This offense was always a joke/gimmick and there was no way it was going to last long term, but I think Harbaugh thought it would. Plain and simple, we run a college offense in the National Football League.

It's not that we dont have the players, it's that it doesnt work anymore and there is no plan B!

And the part about Roman has to be willing to adapt? Are you serious? How many more s**tty performances and losses does it take to figure out Roman is who he is. If he hasnt changed yet why in the world would he start now?!
[ Edited by rondoman on Nov 18, 2013 at 5:10 PM ]
Kap wasn't nearly as bad as many are making him out to be, like the OP said, a few perfectly placed balls caught and not only do we win, but the Kap hate is an afterthought.

Roman on the other hand is awful, and I been saying that since 2011.
[ Edited by WINiner on Nov 18, 2013 at 5:27 PM ]
Originally posted by WINiner:
Kap wasn't nearly as bad as many are making him out to be, like the OP said, a few perfectly placed balls caught and not only do we win, but the Kap hate is an afterthought.

Roman on the other hand is awful, and I been saying that since 2011.

Agree. Our passing concepts are awful. We're using simple algebra while the rest of the league is mastering calculus.

The pistol opened things up for us momentarily. But defenses caught onto it after an off-season of preparation. Couple that with a complete downgrade from last year in regards to our receiving options., and a raw QB struggling to carry the burden of all this b******t. It's gotten ugly.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Kap wasn't nearly as bad as many are making him out to be, like the OP said, a few perfectly placed balls caught and not only do we win, but the Kap hate is an afterthought.

Roman on the other hand is awful, and I been saying that since 2011.

Agree. Our passing concepts are awful. We're using simple algebra while the rest of the league is mastering calculus.

The pistol opened things up for us momentarily. But defenses caught onto it after an off-season of preparation. Couple that with a complete downgrade from last year in regards to our receiving options., and a raw QB struggling to carry the burden of all this b******t. It's gotten ugly.

Roman is a freaking stud designing run plays. Roman is so inept with the passing that we have another person assigned to fulfill that job, and his strategy on game day is the same I used in Super Techmo bowl when I was a youngster. Either A: try to guess what your opponent is trying to do pre-play and get cute trying to catch him off guard by doing the opposite, which has some merit but should only be a small part of the decision or B: Chuck it deep.

There is no methodical picking apart of a defense because you understand how a defense must play a particular formation/play or they will pay dearly. There is not many WCO concepts at all that I can see. There is no sticking with what's working until it's obvious they are overloading to stop it and then making them pay big. None of that.

Jacksonville didn't wait for roman because he isn't very good in 2/3 of his duties, not because he wouldn't be available in a week or two.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Kap wasn't nearly as bad as many are making him out to be, like the OP said, a few perfectly placed balls caught and not only do we win, but the Kap hate is an afterthought.

Roman on the other hand is awful, and I been saying that since 2011.

Agree. Our passing concepts are awful. We're using simple algebra while the rest of the league is mastering calculus.

The pistol opened things up for us momentarily. But defenses caught onto it after an off-season of preparation. Couple that with a complete downgrade from last year in regards to our receiving options., and a raw QB struggling to carry the burden of all this b******t. It's gotten ugly.

Agree. Hope we can get healthy and make a run to get into the playoffs & make a run.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by pete98146:
Wanted to talk about another issue of late. Is it just me or does it seem as if the opposing teams have been gouging us right up the middle on runs? Sure seems like we are giving up 3-4 yards a pop with our defensive line being pushed backwards most of the time. I know that Dorsey is undersized but where are Bowman and Willis with the support (especially Willis)?

Yesterday both RBs averaged over 4 yards a run.

Jeez, so many things to work on...


I think its because they are trying to stop the run with only the front 7...IE they never put a safety up there. The result is that they are good against the run but not stupendous. The other result is that we are FAR better in pass defense because there are always 2 safeties back there.

But that's how we always use to stop the run, with just our front 7. We didn't put 8 in the box that much in 2011 and 2012 and we were a dominant run defense in 2011 and a very good one in 2012. Our run D keeps declining. We need that stout nose tackle who plugs s**t up. Dorsey has played ok, but he's better suited at end.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash


BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are doomed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

Marvin, I thought that you made an excellent point bringing up how some of the elite passers looked early on, but since the poster stated no one cares about Brees in 2002, I'll add onto your argument. The QB that beat us last week, Cam Newton, didn't look so hot last season. He finished with 19 TDs and 12 interceptions. Robert Griffin III has looked god awful at times. Christian Ponder appeared to be flaming out, the Jake Locker bandwagon has died, and some have even questioned if Andy Dalton was the guy to get it done in Cincinatti. With that said, what young QB outside of Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson HASN'T looked pitiful at times?
Originally posted by rondoman:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Kap was protected last year by the scheme. The players they had were very good at running that scheme. The players they have now are unable to run the scheme the way they did last year.

Thats why the cast is so huge...they can't do what they did last year because they don't have the horses.

That isn't an excuse. Roman needs to be able to adapt. Kap needs to be able to adapt. You need to be able to win in multiple ways. Otherwise teams will scheme away that one way to win and you are stuck. When you lose players who match your scheme you need to be able to win another way.
No, the league caught on to the crappy "scheme" and Harbaugh and Roman have been unable or refuse to adjust. Our "genius" scheme consisted of planning to get one guy open or maybe two at the most while everyone else blocks and tries to divert attention away from the AR. This offense was always a joke/gimmick and there was no way it was going to last long term, but I think Harbaugh thought it would. Plain and simple, we run a college offense in the National Football League.

It's not that we dont have the players, it's that it doesnt work anymore and there is no plan B!

And the part about Roman has to be willing to adapt? Are you serious? How many more s**tty performances and losses does it take to figure out Roman is who he is. If he hasnt changed yet why in the world would he start now?!


We'll agree to disagree.

People seem so insistent on one thing being the problem and just ax this guy or that and everything is kosher. It isn't any one thing.

Its a number of smaller things.