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Can Someone Explain How It Wasn't a Penalty?

  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,399
Anything around the head and neck, their going to call.
Originally posted by mayo49:
Anything around the head and neck, their going to call.

Really?
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Still a penalty on both accounts IMO, pretty simple. One was called the other wasn't. Never said anything about poor officiating or them not being consistent.

Can't believe people are still over this.

QFT.

Should have been a penalty on Hicks last night. Absolutely, without a doubt.

BUT, just because officials missed a call in one game, does not negate that a call in a previous game was correct. The bad call was the no-call last night, not the penalty last Sunday.
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Still a penalty on both accounts IMO, pretty simple. One was called the other wasn't. Never said anything about poor officiating or them not being consistent.

Can't believe people are still over this.

You have a bright future with the NFL! j/k!

To your point, even with the the new justification by the NFL of noting it was a clean hit UNTIL Brooks arm slid up into the neck area (essentially admitting the initial hit was clean, chest-to-shoulder) IYHO, you still think it was a penalty by rule? Despite the ref defining it as a "blow to the neck area?"

If so, no worries, was just curious. Interpretation of the rule, the rule itself, personal judgement of the rule, consistency, the spin by the NFL, the fine, etc. are the real issues here anyhow (now).
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 7:10 AM ]
Originally posted by supertruck97:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Still a penalty on both accounts IMO, pretty simple. One was called the other wasn't. Never said anything about poor officiating or them not being consistent.

Can't believe people are still over this.

QFT.

Should have been a penalty on Hicks last night. Absolutely, without a doubt.

BUT, just because officials missed a call in one game, does not negate that a call in a previous game was correct. The bad call was the no-call last night, not the penalty last Sunday.

LMAO! You too have a very bright future under Roger.
Originally posted by mayo49:
Anything around the head and neck, their going to call.

Against one of the stars? Yes! Against a non star? Evidently not. The hit on Ryan was illegal because the hit was initiated at head level. The hit on Brees was almost exclusively chest level.

Sadly, they are trying to protect the QB in the pocket, but a hit like that to the chest area is almost as likely to cause concussion as a hit to the helmet...it's the whipping of the neck and head that is most dangerous.

And, as I have mentioned earlier, a defender now may decide to put the QB out of the game if they are going to be called for a penalty. Brooks could have easily picked Brees up and landed on his shoulder...clean hit, separated shoulder...end of season. The NFL had better consider the consequences of their philosophy carefully. I'm not opposed to changing the rules to lessen high velocity hits in order to decrease brain damage, but it's not a simple task and they will be making mistakes.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Anything around the head and neck, their going to call.

Against one of the stars? Yes! Against a non star? Evidently not. The hit on Ryan was illegal because the hit was initiated at head level. The hit on Brees was almost exclusively chest level.

Sadly, they are trying to protect the QB in the pocket, but a hit like that to the chest area is almost as likely to cause concussion as a hit to the helmet...it's the whipping of the neck and head that is most dangerous.

And, as I have mentioned earlier, a defender now may decide to put the QB out of the game if they are going to be called for a penalty. Brooks could have easily picked Brees up and landed on his shoulder...clean hit, separated shoulder...end of season. The NFL had better consider the consequences of their philosophy carefully. I'm not opposed to changing the rules to lessen high velocity hits in order to decrease brain damage, but it's not a simple task and they will be making mistakes.

You're right, with Brooks turning the corner and the extra (common) shove by the OT, Brooks, had he aimed for Brees head, could literally have ended his career. Anyone remember Aeneas Williams' (?) hit on Steve Young? Career = over.
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 22, 2013 at 7:22 AM ]
Originally posted by supertruck97:
If you are posting the gif of the hit as justification for saying it was not illegal, you are either being willfully ignorant or you are a few crayons short of a box. The penalty was not for the initial hit (which is what the gif shows over and over and over again). The initial hit was just fine. He hit him on the shoulder pad. Nothing wrong with that.

However, he didn't just hit him int he shoulder pad and knock him down, he continued the tackle as brees was falling backwards, and continued to apply force to the head/neck area:



That's the penalty. If Brooks had knocked the crap out of him and let him fall, it would have been a clean hit. But, as this picture CLEARLY shows, Brooks continued to engage him (you can see his right hand is still grasping and pulling on Bree's neck/face) on the way down.

I also agree that if you saw that hit real time, and didn't wait a tick to be sure a flag wasn't going to be thrown, then you have not been paying attention the last 5 years. You have to hold off celebration on every big hit, every sack, every pass break-up, because in TODAY'S NFL, those things are often called penalties.

It's hilarious that some of you are so up in arms about this call, saying it cost the 9ers the game. They had the ball with 2 min to go and the game tied and could barely manage positive yardage. What makes you think they would have done anything differently with 3 minutes to go? Let's say the exact same sequence of events happened. And around 50-60 seconds were run off the clock before the Saints got the ball back, down 3. Is there any doubt that the outcome would have likely been the same? The offense had done nothing all day, outside of being handed points by only having to go 11 and 16 yards to get a TD. And the Saints had basically moved at will and shot themselves in the foot with TOs. In all likelihood, with 2 minutes to go, Brees drives them down the field and instead of holding up and playing for a FG to tie, they go for the end zone and win it with a TD.

There were plenty of chances to win that game, and the 9ers took advantage of none of them. "Questionable" call or not.

What's really hilarious is a Saints fan troll commenting on our board about a call from a week ago. You aren't going to convince any of us it wasn't a bogus call meant to preotect your golden boy QB. But the good news is that you guys aren't that good. You will lose to Carolina and will not beat the Niners again if the play in the playoffs.
[ Edited by Black24Razor on Nov 22, 2013 at 7:42 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Anything around the head and neck, their going to call.

Really?


First time I ever heard the ref say "personal foul, hit to the neck area".....look back at all the hits in the NFL....the "neck area" foul should be called at least twice a week...cause I see hands around the "neck area" all the time and never heard it call before that play....
^^^ totally and still not a "hit" or "blow" to the neck at all. A blow to the neck or Adam's Apple would have required emergency medical support. If by "blow" they mean the arm is "in the general vaccinity" of the neck, sure. Then they better call that play on just about every tackle or sack.
Originally posted by Canadian9erfan:
its 100% a penalty. The NFL wants any hit around the head or neck area eliminated from the game.

If things were turned around and that hit happened on Kaep, and NO penalty was called, Harbaugh would actually lose his mind and prob he in the hospital right now.

I dont blame Brooks though as he is maybe our best player on defense. The window to hit a QB legally is so small these days, i wouldnt want to be a defensive player.
Which is the height of Brees??? thats explain the hit ... ok?? what do you want? .... brees is 5' 11" whit plugs ....
Originally posted by supertruck97:
If you are posting the gif of the hit as justification for saying it was not illegal, you are either being willfully ignorant or you are a few crayons short of a box. The penalty was not for the initial hit (which is what the gif shows over and over and over again). The initial hit was just fine. He hit him on the shoulder pad. Nothing wrong with that.

However, he didn't just hit him int he shoulder pad and knock him down, he continued the tackle as brees was falling backwards, and continued to apply force to the head/neck area:



That's the penalty. If Brooks had knocked the crap out of him and let him fall, it would have been a clean hit. But, as this picture CLEARLY shows, Brooks continued to engage him (you can see his right hand is still grasping and pulling on Bree's neck/face) on the way down.

I also agree that if you saw that hit real time, and didn't wait a tick to be sure a flag wasn't going to be thrown, then you have not been paying attention the last 5 years. You have to hold off celebration on every big hit, every sack, every pass break-up, because in TODAY'S NFL, those things are often called penalties.

It's hilarious that some of you are so up in arms about this call, saying it cost the 9ers the game. They had the ball with 2 min to go and the game tied and could barely manage positive yardage. What makes you think they would have done anything differently with 3 minutes to go? Let's say the exact same sequence of events happened. And around 50-60 seconds were run off the clock before the Saints got the ball back, down 3. Is there any doubt that the outcome would have likely been the same? The offense had done nothing all day, outside of being handed points by only having to go 11 and 16 yards to get a TD. And the Saints had basically moved at will and shot themselves in the foot with TOs. In all likelihood, with 2 minutes to go, Brees drives them down the field and instead of holding up and playing for a FG to tie, they go for the end zone and win it with a TD.

There were plenty of chances to win that game, and the 9ers took advantage of none of them. "Questionable" call or not.

You can tell by the picture that Brooks is clearly grasping and pulling on Brees' facesmask? Hmmm, looks like a homer interpretation if I've ever seen one. From the picture, it could easily be just incidental contact. There's no clear evidence either way. Video evidence, however, shows Brooks let up considerably after the initial hit. Brees' face fell into the tackle but Brooks didn't finish the tackle violently. He let up. Yes, contact to the neck happened, but it was not for forcible and pretty common when two guys to to the ground. It's not like we're in the minority here. Look at the polls, Loisiana and Mississippi are the only states that think it was a good call. And Homerism aside, I think many consider intelligence from that area of the country about as sharp as a marble.
Sing with me, "Blame Canada! Blame Canada!" ~ South Park
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Still a penalty on both accounts IMO, pretty simple. One was called the other wasn't. Never said anything about poor officiating or them not being consistent.

Can't believe people are still over this.

You have a bright future with the NFL! j/k!

To your point, even with the the new justification by the NFL of noting it was a clean hit UNTIL Brooks arm slid up into the neck area (essentially admitting the initial hit was clean, chest-to-shoulder) IYHO, you still think it was a penalty by rule? Despite the ref defining it as a "blow to the neck area?"

If so, no worries, was just curious. Interpretation of the rule, the rule itself, personal judgement of the rule, consistency, the spin by the NFL, the fine, etc. are the real issues here anyhow (now).

I don't think it was a penalty at first but I understand it was borderline. You can't be in that area period... Sucks but with the $750,000,000 the NFL just forked out it's gotta be called. It's that simple to me, not worth 51 pages. It was a hit close to the head and neck area. That right there is the end of story for me.

People don't like it, then blame the former players not the NFL.
Fair enough, I think we can all agree at real-time and the added emphasis on QB protection, that's a tough judgement call in a critical juncture of the game. Understandable.