There are 68 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Can Someone Explain How It Wasn't a Penalty?

Originally posted by 4ML:
There is no point even complaining about this. This is the new NFL and players have to adjust. Last week against Panthers, refs did us a favor and we still lost the game. Good teams over-come refs mistakes...bad teams make excuses.


LOL!! Americans and their over noble ideologies. Here are a few counter analogies. "This is the new America, they want your privacy and people should just adjust". "This is the new accounting dept of your job, they shorted your pay now you should just adjust". "This is the new American woman, she's promiscuous and you just need to adjust". So I guess my question is, why is your logic suggesting that the burden be on the victim and not the offender? It is ok to say that an official cost you a game. Football is a game of inches, opportunities, and circumstances. If any one of these is taken away by the mediator of the game is it not logical cause for not getting the job done?

For the record, lets get rid of this ridiculous macho dribble and be realistic here. Great teams DO NOT overcome refs calls, they are afforded more opportunities. Nobody "overcomes" refs. Because if you ever played football, you know that once a ref has you on his sh*t list, you are done.
It was a very IFFY call to say the least, and I think we ALL know that if the Saints would have done the same thing to Kaeperinck there is no chance in he!! that we get the flag, We all know i'm right!!!!!! I think that's why soo many of us are upset.
Originally posted by tmpluff:
It was a very IFFY call to say the least, and I think we ALL know that if the Saints would have done the same thing to Kaeperinck there is no chance in he!! that we get the flag, We all know i'm right!!!!!! I think that's why soo many of us are upset.

Yup. Carolina almost ripped KAps face off last week. Several saints players went high on Kap as well. I just want to see consistent calls. Not game changing ticky tack calls.
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Originally posted by 4ML:
There is no point even complaining about this. This is the new NFL and players have to adjust. Last week against Panthers, refs did us a favor and we still lost the game. Good teams over-come refs mistakes...bad teams make excuses.


LOL!! Americans and their over noble ideologies. Here are a few counter analogies. "This is the new America, they want your privacy and people should just adjust". "This is the new accounting dept of your job, they shorted your pay now you should just adjust". "This is the new American woman, she's promiscuous and you just need to adjust". So I guess my question is, why is your logic suggesting that the burden be on the victim and not the offender? It is ok to say that an official cost you a game. Football is a game of inches, opportunities, and circumstances. If any one of these is taken away by the mediator of the game is it not logical cause for not getting the job done?

For the record, lets get rid of this ridiculous macho dribble and be realistic here. Great teams DO NOT overcome refs calls, they are afforded more opportunities. Nobody "overcomes" refs. Because if you ever played football, you know that once a ref has you on his sh*t list, you are done.

#Boom #Truth Thanks for sharing that.!!!!!
SonocoNinerFan made a great point in another thread. Here it is

The contact point wasn't close then Brooks' arm slid up and over Bree's mask. It was a "didn't have to be" call.

If that call DOESN'T get made NOBODY would be talking about the Saints getting jobbed, as opposed to being the semi-national story that it is now.

On to Washington.
Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/175744-im-done/page6/#We17JG8vS5qDqKLp.99

That right there tells you all you need to know. If that call isn't made, NOBODY would be saying the Saints got robbed, or that the officials should have thrown the flag . It was a good FOOTBALL play. This is a perfect example of the referees abusing their power and recklessly effecting the outcome of a football game.

But I don't really blame the officials all too much. It's not the refs, it's the rules. They are brainwashed into making these types of calls by the NFL power structure. They are told "If you have any doubt, throw the flag". It should be the opposite -- "If you have any doubt, DON'T throw the flag. If it was a dirty hit, we'll fine/suspend the player after the game".

The call was terrible for the simple fact that it took the game out of the player's hands, and into the officials. That is the definition of bad officiating, and it is harmful to the game. It just felt wrong. We were essentially punished for beating their o-line and sacking Brees. We made that play. We earned that sack and fumble. But we were punished for it. That's wrong.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by KB94605NINERS:
The NFL should make the QB's wear florescent pink from the collarbone down to the knees. The pink zone will let the defense will know where they can hit the QB.

Actually not a horrible idea lol. Maybe not pink but some florescent color. Then make it reviewable. If hands or hit is in the area call a foul and review it.

Sucks it's come to this, but it is what it is.

Totally...this topic spun off big time today; lots of input but I personally like Eric's take here. The whole point of the rule is to protect a vulnerable (and marketable $) player. This is the same as a defenseless receiver. A QB's eyes are down field while bodies are flying around. But this is the part that needs to be taken into account and that currently, is not (for the big 4):

Eric Allen also went on to say (to paraphrase) the offensive player needs to be taken into account on these judegment calls (if the QB or RB ducks his head, turns his body, etc.) THAT needs to be written into the rule book. He went on to say as long as the defender is targeting the stike zone and is not LAUNCHING himself into the player (a malicious act with the intent to injure) the defensive player should be given the benefit of the doubt here esp. in the case where no helmet-hitting was involved. And there is no doubt Brooks was aiming for (and hit) the strike zone initially and had zero intent to injury.

....you want to see launching of the helmet with the intent to injure? Go rewatch the Superbowl, 2nd to last play, where their DB launched the crown of his helmet up into the face mask of Crabtree, giving him a mild concussion. We all know what happened after that...

He goes onto say that he coached high school, youth football programs (think about this for a second) and in his words, "That was a perfect tackle. We talk about the head behind the bow with the arm in front so that there is no crown-to-facemask tackle. As you notice, his arm was in front. It was a perfect arm tackle. If you're going to penalize him for that, we're in a world of trouble!"

This whole sequence had me thinking... If the NFL really does want to protect players, especially QB's, why not make the QB's wear some sort of uniform that indicates where it's okay to hit them? I did this below quickly on photoshop(obviously it would look much cleaner), but I think it would protect the QB in area's needed and also let the defender have an idea of where it's okay to hit and grab. It doesn't have to be yellow or anything significant, but just something recognizable.


Make "illegal contact to the qb" or something reviewable. Any "forceful" contact to the area will be a (insert number here) yard penalty. Again, I think it would keep the QB's safe and also help defenders be more instinctually aware and also help them adapt to no longer hitting these areas.

And sure it may take away some of the game, but unfortunately these players have to be protected. A lot of people want to blame the NFL and the refs, but their hands are pretty much tied with all the law suits.

I don't know, maybe there are holes in this idea, but just started thinking about it.

it's a great idea..but if the QB stays still and stands straight up.

most QBs duck and move which makes it more difficult for the defender

Agreed. Even the "neck area" really comes down in the target area (the chest/shoulder). I loved Allen's idea of the refs having to consider what the offensive player did in conjunction with the defenders play. Did Brees turn into Brooks, duck his head, where was the initial contact, was that legal, did Brooks wrap-up arms do anything, what happened AFTER the initial contact (one player fell, one tried to stay up), etc. Could the defender made an additional move, drop down and hit him lower while still forcing the sack and fumble within the context of the play? Essentially, take the entire play into account as well as the state of the game (significance of the play/timing) before making the call; otherwise, allow instant replay to review critical calls at critical junctures of the game. There are only 16 games in the NFL...this isn't baseball here.

I have still yet to see proof he "hit him in the head." If he had tied his right arm to his back the play would still have ended exactly the same way...chest tackle-to-shoulder blowing up Brees, whip lash and ball flying loose. The difference is, Brooks would most likely have fallen ON top of Brees while he was folded on the ground in 1/2.

Here is the deal: If Brooks had hit Brees in the head OR tackled him by the neck, you would NOT see his head whiplash like it did. He was basically sitting in a car accident with his seat belt on.
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by tmpluff:
It was a very IFFY call to say the least, and I think we ALL know that if the Saints would have done the same thing to Kaeperinck there is no chance in he!! that we get the flag, We all know i'm right!!!!!! I think that's why soo many of us are upset.

Yup. Carolina almost ripped KAps face off last week. Several saints players went high on Kap as well. I just want to see consistent calls. Not game changing ticky tack calls.

from week to week its not going to be consistent. should it? yes of course, but each crew is a bit different. i lose it when its not consistent within the same game for both teams, thats where i draw the line.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by tmpluff:
It was a very IFFY call to say the least, and I think we ALL know that if the Saints would have done the same thing to Kaeperinck there is no chance in he!! that we get the flag, We all know i'm right!!!!!! I think that's why soo many of us are upset.

Yup. Carolina almost ripped KAps face off last week. Several saints players went high on Kap as well. I just want to see consistent calls. Not game changing ticky tack calls.

from week to week its not going to be consistent. should it? yes of course, but each crew is a bit different. i lose it when its not consistent within the same game for both teams, thats where i draw the line.

That's part of it. Maybe on hard hits like that the refs let them play and the League and enforce the rules after the fact with fines. Unless its something intentional like a punch to the face.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Nov 18, 2013 at 3:44 PM ]
Originally posted by SofaKing:
SonocoNinerFan made a great point in another thread. Here it is

The contact point wasn't close then Brooks' arm slid up and over Bree's mask. It was a "didn't have to be" call.

If that call DOESN'T get made NOBODY would be talking about the Saints getting jobbed, as opposed to being the semi-national story that it is now.

On to Washington.
Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/175744-im-done/page6/#We17JG8vS5qDqKLp.99

That right there tells you all you need to know. If that call isn't made, NOBODY would be saying the Saints got robbed, or that the officials should have thrown the flag . It was a good FOOTBALL play. This is a perfect example of the referees abusing their power and recklessly effecting the outcome of a football game.

But I don't really blame the officials all too much. It's not the refs, it's the rules. They are brainwashed into making these types of calls by the NFL power structure. They are told "If you have any doubt, throw the flag". It should be the opposite -- "If you have any doubt, DON'T throw the flag. If it was a dirty hit, we'll fine/suspend the player after the game".

The call was terrible for the simple fact that it took the game out of the player's hands, and into the officials. That is the definition of bad officiating, and it is harmful to the game. It just felt wrong. We were essentially punished for beating their o-line and sacking Brees. We made that play. We earned that sack and fumble. But we were punished for it. That's wrong.

Thanks. I agree with your follow-up point. The target area for the media darling QB's might as well be a postage stamp between the belt and the middle of the numbers. If you stray out of that zone when the QB is standing in the pocket it's 50-50 that yellow laundry hits the turf for a high or a low shot.
Wow I've never seen so many cry babies in my life! (Including your coach) instead of latching on to one play which was the correct call please talk about your inept offense and how you were rewarded 17 points and still lost. 3 turnovers gave you guys points because you started inside the 30 twice. This game shouldn't have even been close. Gore was contained and your quarterback can't throw thats the issue here so stop whining about one penalty. What makes me mad is when the pats screwed us over the entire game i didn't see one of our players in the media crying on camera. I didn't see our coach whining on camera. We took the loss for what it was because we had two chances to put the game away and failed. Its called ownership and now deflecting the blame to someone who you know will call that a penalty 9 times out of 10! If they would throw a flag for the qb simply being slapped on the helmet you don't think they will for one getting close lined??? If you don't lay an egg at home to Carolina last week this lost isn't even that bad. Blame your coaching staff and your offense!
This was a legal hit in my opinion; the shoulder pad is the new neck I guess; A very big strong man moving fast hit an undersized QB across the top of his breast plate and the shock snapped his neck. That is a bad call. The offense was shoddy but no need to take away from the defensive effort they played well enough to win thats football offense and defense are not always in sync playing well at the same time. Two good teams one made the game changing play and it was taken away leaving the other enough air to breathe and win at home, but it happens.
Originally posted by ImagineDAT_1963:
Wow I've never seen so many cry babies in my life! (Including your coach) instead of latching on to one play which was the correct call please talk about your inept offense and how you were rewarded 17 points and still lost. 3 turnovers gave you guys points because you started inside the 30 twice. This game shouldn't have even been close. Gore was contained and your quarterback can't throw thats the issue here so stop whining about one penalty. What makes me mad is when the pats screwed us over the entire game i didn't see one of our players in the media crying on camera. I didn't see our coach whining on camera. We took the loss for what it was because we had two chances to put the game away and failed. Its called ownership and now deflecting the blame to someone who you know will call that a penalty 9 times out of 10! If they would throw a flag for the qb simply being slapped on the helmet you don't think they will for one getting close lined??? If you don't lay an egg at home to Carolina last week this lost isn't even that bad. Blame your coaching staff and your offense!

We have other threads for that open and doing brisk business. This thread however is about the call. Please notice that the OP agreed with the call. Buh bye now
Originally posted by ImagineDAT_1963:
Wow I've never seen so many cry babies in my life! (Including your coach) instead of latching on to one play which was the correct call please talk about your inept offense and how you were rewarded 17 points and still lost. 3 turnovers gave you guys points because you started inside the 30 twice. This game shouldn't have even been close. Gore was contained and your quarterback can't throw thats the issue here so stop whining about one penalty. What makes me mad is when the pats screwed us over the entire game i didn't see one of our players in the media crying on camera. I didn't see our coach whining on camera. We took the loss for what it was because we had two chances to put the game away and failed. Its called ownership and now deflecting the blame to someone who you know will call that a penalty 9 times out of 10! If they would throw a flag for the qb simply being slapped on the helmet you don't think they will for one getting close lined??? If you don't lay an egg at home to Carolina last week this lost isn't even that bad. Blame your coaching staff and your offense!

You can't beat Seattle and you won't beat the Niners if we play again...Go celebrate with some moonshine and frog legs with your cousin/wife.
Ray Lewis just said he would pay half Ahmad's fine. He pulled out his credit card lol
Holy #$%^&*. Ray Lewis just said that he will pay 1/2 of Brooks fine if they fine him...dude, he is livid! Wow. I may have to take back the deer antler spray comments now. LOL