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Can Someone Explain How It Wasn't a Penalty?

  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,750
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.
[ Edited by 4ML on Nov 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM ]
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
His forearm hit the upper chest. If he did really hit the neck, it wouldnt be flying out like it did when Brooks smashed him.

Not a penalty.


Exactly!! If this was a blow TO the neck, his head would not have the room it needed to pop forward as it did. The rules never subjected defenses to make absolutely no contact below the knees neck or helmet. If that was the case, it would be impossible to not commit this penalty. Its dependent on whether its a direct blow to these areas. His arm "sliding to the neck", is a pool of BS.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.

well put....it's just the nfl protecting the select few...where is the penalty on Tolbert for lowering his head and hiting Reid...where is the nfl reviewing that tape and slapping Tolbert with a fine...all off season we were told that would be called on the offense and i have yet to see it called once...so don't give me that crap about the ref had to call it cause it was the rules...they call it cause the name on the back of the jersey says Bress, Manning, Brady....I don't see them calling that on a QB like Pryor....
[ Edited by Hitman49 on Nov 18, 2013 at 2:54 PM ]
This wasn't a penalty because the initial contact was below the head. Brooks momentum and Brees' falling caused the secondary contact to the head. Do the NFL and the refs expect the laws of physics to be suspended when contact is made? This was an understandable call only because when everything is going full speed, it's hard to differentiate sometimes. However, for someone to review it after the fact and state it was a penalty, is stretching things, and that's being diplomatic!
  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,750
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.

There is no point even complaining about this. This is the new NFL and players have to adjust. Last week against Panthers, refs did us a favor and we still lost the game. Good teams over-come refs mistakes...bad teams make excuses.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.

There is no point even complaining about this. This is the new NFL and players have to adjust. Last week against Panthers, refs did us a favor and we still lost the game. Good teams over-come refs mistakes...bad teams make excuses.

i agree 100%
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.

well put....it's just the nfl protecting the select few...where is the penalty on Tolbert for lowering his head and hiting Reid...where is the nfl reviewing that tape and slapping Tolbert with a fine...all off season we were told that would be called on the offense and i have yet to see it called once...so don't give me that crap about the ref had to call it cause it was the rules...they call it cause the name on the back of the jersey says Bress, Manning, Brady....I don't see them calling that on a QB like Prior....

Even then. In a game ending situation like that, unless Brooks intentionally and maliciously went for the neck and head, the refs need to keep that flag in their zebra thongs.

Damn refs in the superbowl kept their flag in their thongs all night, even when a Rven gave a ref a two arm body shove in the first quarter. Stupid NFL can't stay consistant in their calls and thats the most frustrating thing.

So many judgement rules are left for interpretation from 55+ year old half diabetic guys with vision problems. At least let these idiots use instant replay to get the call right, especially in the fourth quarter.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.

There is no point even complaining about this. This is the new NFL and players have to adjust. Last week against Panthers, refs did us a favor and we still lost the game. Good teams over-come refs mistakes...bad teams make excuses.

I agree. Last week's loss was on us even though the refs and CArolina wanted to give us the game.

This time, we were able to actually beat the tough Brees and the saints in their house and it was taken from us, despite the multiple breaks the saints were given by the refs.

That last call shouldn't be a penalty anyway you look at it. This is football, not patty-cake.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
What's funny is that Mike Perreira said today that if that play happened 10 different times with 10 different refs it would be called every time. Sorry, but that's total BS. I remember last year when we were playing the Lions and Alex Smith was sliding, the Lions safety took his forearm and bashed Alex's face. Alex got up bleeding from his upper nose and no call was made. I've seen other QBs take worse hits than that without a flag being thrown. There is definite favoritism in the league.

If Mike Perreira feels this way, then the rule extends beyond just the neck, meaning that there is no definitive place to make contact with the refs and not get a potential flag. I think he needs to be honest at times and not try to save face for the NFL refs at times. A easy fix would be to enable a review of the call.
[ Edited by Puckdaddy on Nov 18, 2013 at 3:01 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by KB94605NINERS:
The NFL should make the QB's wear florescent pink from the collarbone down to the knees. The pink zone will let the defense will know where they can hit the QB.

Actually not a horrible idea lol. Maybe not pink but some florescent color. Then make it reviewable. If hands or hit is in the area call a foul and review it.

Sucks it's come to this, but it is what it is.

Totally...this topic spun off big time today; lots of input but I personally like Eric's take here. The whole point of the rule is to protect a vulnerable (and marketable $) player. This is the same as a defenseless receiver. A QB's eyes are down field while bodies are flying around. But this is the part that needs to be taken into account and that currently, is not (for the big 4):

Eric Allen also went on to say (to paraphrase) the offensive player needs to be taken into account on these judegment calls (if the QB or RB ducks his head, turns his body, etc.) THAT needs to be written into the rule book. He went on to say as long as the defender is targeting the stike zone and is not LAUNCHING himself into the player (a malicious act with the intent to injure) the defensive player should be given the benefit of the doubt here esp. in the case where no helmet-hitting was involved. And there is no doubt Brooks was aiming for (and hit) the strike zone initially and had zero intent to injury.

....you want to see launching of the helmet with the intent to injure? Go rewatch the Superbowl, 2nd to last play, where their DB launched the crown of his helmet up into the face mask of Crabtree, giving him a mild concussion. We all know what happened after that...

He goes onto say that he coached high school, youth football programs (think about this for a second) and in his words, "That was a perfect tackle. We talk about the head behind the bow with the arm in front so that there is no crown-to-facemask tackle. As you notice, his arm was in front. It was a perfect arm tackle. If you're going to penalize him for that, we're in a world of trouble!"

This whole sequence had me thinking... If the NFL really does want to protect players, especially QB's, why not make the QB's wear some sort of uniform that indicates where it's okay to hit them? I did this below quickly on photoshop(obviously it would look much cleaner), but I think it would protect the QB in area's needed and also let the defender have an idea of where it's okay to hit and grab. It doesn't have to be yellow or anything significant, but just something recognizable.


Make "illegal contact to the qb" or something reviewable. Any "forceful" contact to the area will be a (insert number here) yard penalty. Again, I think it would keep the QB's safe and also help defenders be more instinctually aware and also help them adapt to no longer hitting these areas.

And sure it may take away some of the game, but unfortunately these players have to be protected. A lot of people want to blame the NFL and the refs, but their hands are pretty much tied with all the law suits.

I don't know, maybe there are holes in this idea, but just started thinking about it.
[ Edited by JiksJuicy on Nov 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM ]
  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,750
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Brooks is going around an offensive tackle at 100 mph trying to sack a moving target in the 6' Brees in a split second. It's easy for us to sit back today and say if he aimed his arm a little lower it would not have been a penalty. But doing it at game speed on such a crucial drive is totally different.

Yet...you expect the refs to make the correct call. Look...either players can learn from this or keep blaming the refs. He goes 3 inches lower and we aren't talkin' about this today. You put the onus on the ref and more often than not - ref are going to make the call in favor of the defenseless player. That's just how NFL is today and defensive players must adjust to it.

dude gve him a bear hug. Get these wiener QBs out of here and let the real men play. Brees has to stertch his neck and keep his head up just to see over the line. If he gets blind sided by a DE.OLB at full speed, he's gonig to get blown the f**k up.

god damn sissy NFL finally cost us a big one. Now we have to chase teams for a Wildcard spot. How pathetic. f**king hate this new NFL.

There is no point even complaining about this. This is the new NFL and players have to adjust. Last week against Panthers, refs did us a favor and we still lost the game. Good teams over-come refs mistakes...bad teams make excuses.

I agree. Last week's loss was on us even though the refs and CArolina wanted to give us the game.

This time, we were able to actually beat the tough Brees and the saints in their house and it was taken from us, despite the multiple breaks the saints were given by the refs.

That last call shouldn't be a penalty anyway you look at it. This is football, not patty-cake.

I know it shouldn't have been a penalty...but refs aren't going to get every call right...just like Peyton Manning is not going to hit every WR in stride. It is a well known fact by now that refs will give the benefit of doubt to the defenseless player. That's just how it is. Brooks needs to be aware of that...and hit slightly lower. That's all. He had the time to drill his rib cage and hit him under his shoulder. You can't make borderline hits anymore...more often than not - you'll be flagged.
I get why we as fans need to chill out but Brooks should be pissed because he is the one that will probably pay a fine and lose his money for what was simply a good hard clean football play. Brees sank into the hit and Brooks attempted a shoulder chest area shot. He even actually struck Brees in the shoulder chest area initially. Well rules are rules but there's not much Brooks could have done differently given the force at which he arrived at Brees. If this is the outcome of the play he may as well have hit him in the head just as Crabtree was hit in the super bowl on third and five
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Nov 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM ]
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I get why we as fans need to chill out but Brooks should be pissed because he is the one that will probably pay a fine and lose his money for what was simply a good hard clean football play. Brees sank into the hit and Brooks attempted a shoulder chest area shot. He even actually struck Brees in the shoulder chest area initially. Well rules are rules but there's not much Brooks could have done differently given the force at which he arrived at Brees. If this is the outcome of the play he may as well have hit him in the head just as Crabtree was hit in the super bowl on third and five

That's the most annoying part. The inconsistent preferreing. Either take judgement out of the calls and make things black and white or allow the refs to review critical penalties like that under replay. Brooks didn't strike the neck, it was just a violent collision and the refs just threw the flag for that reason only. I've seen it happen many times this year such as Whitner's hit on the Tennesse player. It was hard and heavy and clean but the refs just saw a blow up shot and threw a fl;ag for no reason. If they reviewed that Whitner hit they would of saw a clean hit and picked it up.

Its time to just wrap guys up, but then little slippery s**ts like Brees and wilson move around the pocket and torch us. This is total b******t and cost us a run at the division and we are now looking at an uphill dogfight to get a wildcard spot.

f**k f**k f**k!
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Nov 18, 2013 at 3:16 PM ]
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by KB94605NINERS:
The NFL should make the QB's wear florescent pink from the collarbone down to the knees. The pink zone will let the defense will know where they can hit the QB.

Actually not a horrible idea lol. Maybe not pink but some florescent color. Then make it reviewable. If hands or hit is in the area call a foul and review it.

Sucks it's come to this, but it is what it is.

Totally...this topic spun off big time today; lots of input but I personally like Eric's take here. The whole point of the rule is to protect a vulnerable (and marketable $) player. This is the same as a defenseless receiver. A QB's eyes are down field while bodies are flying around. But this is the part that needs to be taken into account and that currently, is not (for the big 4):

Eric Allen also went on to say (to paraphrase) the offensive player needs to be taken into account on these judegment calls (if the QB or RB ducks his head, turns his body, etc.) THAT needs to be written into the rule book. He went on to say as long as the defender is targeting the stike zone and is not LAUNCHING himself into the player (a malicious act with the intent to injure) the defensive player should be given the benefit of the doubt here esp. in the case where no helmet-hitting was involved. And there is no doubt Brooks was aiming for (and hit) the strike zone initially and had zero intent to injury.

....you want to see launching of the helmet with the intent to injure? Go rewatch the Superbowl, 2nd to last play, where their DB launched the crown of his helmet up into the face mask of Crabtree, giving him a mild concussion. We all know what happened after that...

He goes onto say that he coached high school, youth football programs (think about this for a second) and in his words, "That was a perfect tackle. We talk about the head behind the bow with the arm in front so that there is no crown-to-facemask tackle. As you notice, his arm was in front. It was a perfect arm tackle. If you're going to penalize him for that, we're in a world of trouble!"

This whole sequence had me thinking... If the NFL really does want to protect players, especially QB's, why not make the QB's wear some sort of uniform that indicates where it's okay to hit them? I did this below quickly on photoshop(obviously it would look much cleaner), but I think it would protect the QB in area's needed and also let the defender have an idea of where it's okay to hit and grab. It doesn't have to be yellow or anything significant, but just something recognizable.


Make "illegal contact to the qb" or something reviewable. Any "forceful" contact to the area will be a (insert number here) yard penalty. Again, I think it would keep the QB's safe and also help defenders be more instinctually aware and also help them adapt to no longer hitting these areas.

And sure it may take away some of the game, but unfortunately these players have to be protected. A lot of people want to blame the NFL and the refs, but their hands are pretty much tied with all the law suits.

I don't know, maybe there are holes in this idea, but just started thinking about it.

it's a great idea..but if the QB stays still and stands straight up.

most QBs duck and move which makes it more difficult for the defender
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