There are 165 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

The 49ers are victims of groupthink and what should happen to fix it

  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,196
The 49ers are falling victim to groupthink, which is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an incorrect or deviant decision-making outcome.

Basically, they've been together for so long that behavior that would normally be reprimanded, punished or changed goes unchallenged because it has become the norm in our locker room.

I just thought this is the best way explain our consistent problems that plague us week in and week out. Harbaugh hired Roman prior to the 2009 at Stanford and Fangio prior to the 2010 season -- it is natural and frankly it is expected that they fall into a pattern or synchronized way of operating the team.

Fangio is granted a greater amount of autonomy because Harbaugh is an offensive minded coach but it will eventually become an issue on the defensive side of the ball as well if it becomes as systemic of a problem when it comes to the ultimate goal of winning a SB. Right now and for the past 2+ years the defense has been the primary reason why we've had the success that we've had.

Jim Harbaugh and Roman are approaching the same amount of time that John Harbaugh and Cam Cameron were working together before Harbaugh decided, midseason no less, that the level of sustained above average success without true results(4 seasons with at least 1 playoff win but no SB) was not worth the continuity of keeping Cameron as OC. After 4.5 years or the 2008 season to the middle of 2012 Cameron was fired and entire offensive philosophy was retooled, which is PART not ALL but part of the reason for their resurgence last year.

Jim and Roman are at that same crossroads and Jim needs to have the guts to realize that winning is more important than familiarity. Last season we had the midseason injury to Alex Smith the the X-factor that was Colin Kaepernick propel us to the brink of an SB victory. His talent and dynamic skill set allowed for us to catch the rest of the NFL off-guard but now after a full offseason we've all seen that for 1 reason or an other the team has revert to the same type of small ball that was so successful in 2011 and 2012. While that is not inherently an issue we've seen that in the past 2 weeks we can not beat playoff (Carolina) or SB (New Orleans) caliber teams with this small ball full of clear out routes and short gainers.

The real issue is something we've all noticed but because of the sudden success that ranged from a 9 game win streak in 2011 and a push to SB in 2012 we were willing to excuse but always pointed out after wins and especially after loses. Those are

a. lack of creativity
b. inability to get play in on time due to complicated terminology and the convoluted process of Roman sending to Harbaugh to veto or okay before sending it in
c. inexplicably deviating from a game plan that is working
d. inexplicably sticking to a game plan that is NOT working
e. Inability to maximize the talent and skill of many players on the roster

Much like the 1-2 start was made out to be the "first real crisis of the Harbaugh era" it can and should be said the entire 2013 is crucible and that the 49ers must make a choice and see where it takes them. Just as sticking with the "hot hand" in Kaepernick helped send us to the SB, this year it may be Jim taking a page from his brother and sending Roman packing and living with the consequences.

Before those who absolutely oppose Chryst or those who support the idea of Rathman being the OC chime in consider that it may be wise to seek out an outside candidate should this decision be made.

What is everybody's thoughts on the issue? Agree, disagree? What would you do to address the problems?
Originally posted by sfout:
The 49ers are falling victim to groupthink, which is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an incorrect or deviant decision-making outcome.

Basically, they've been together for so long that behavior that would normally be reprimanded, punished or changed goes unchallenged because it has become the norm in our locker room.

I just thought this is the best way explain our consistent problems that plague us week in and week out. Harbaugh hired Roman prior to the 2009 at Stanford and Fangio prior to the 2010 season -- it is natural and frankly it is expected that they fall into a pattern or synchronized way of operating the team.

Fangio is granted a greater amount of autonomy because Harbaugh is an offensive minded coach but it will eventually become an issue on the defensive side of the ball as well if it becomes as systemic of a problem when it comes to the ultimate goal of winning a SB. Right now and for the past 2+ years the defense has been the primary reason why we've had the success that we've had.

Jim Harbaugh and Roman are approaching the same amount of time that John Harbaugh and Cam Cameron were working together before Harbaugh decided, midseason no less, that the level of sustained above average success without true results(4 seasons with at least 1 playoff win but no SB) was not worth the continuity of keeping Cameron as OC. After 4.5 years or the 2008 season to the middle of 2012 Cameron was fired and entire offensive philosophy was retooled, which is PART not ALL but part of the reason for their resurgence last year.

Jim and Roman are at that same crossroads and Jim needs to have the guts to realize that winning is more important than familiarity. Last season we had the midseason injury to Alex Smith the the X-factor that was Colin Kaepernick propel us to the brink of an SB victory. His talent and dynamic skill set allowed for us to catch the rest of the NFL off-guard but now after a full offseason we've all seen that for 1 reason or an other the team has revert to the same type of small ball that was so successful in 2011 and 2012. While that is not inherently an issue we've seen that in the past 2 weeks we can not beat playoff (Carolina) or SB (New Orleans) caliber teams with this small ball full of clear out routes and short gainers.

The real issue is something we've all noticed but because of the sudden success that ranged from a 9 game win streak in 2011 and a push to SB in 2012 we were willing to excuse but always pointed out after wins and especially after loses. Those are

a. lack of creativity
b. inability to get play in on time due to complicated terminology and the convoluted process of Roman sending to Harbaugh to veto or okay before sending it in
c. inexplicably deviating from a game plan that is working
d. inexplicably sticking to a game plan that is NOT working
e. Inability to maximize the talent and skill of many players on the roster

Much like the 1-2 start was made out to be the "first real crisis of the Harbaugh era" it can and should be said the entire 2013 is crucible and that the 49ers must make a choice and see where it takes them. Just as sticking with the "hot hand" in Kaepernick helped send us to the SB, this year it may be Jim taking a page from his brother and sending Roman packing and living with the consequences.

Before those who absolutely oppose Chryst or those who support the idea of Rathman being the OC chime in consider that it may be wise to seek out an outside candidate should this decision be made.

What is everybody's thoughts on the issue? Agree, disagree? What would you do to address the problems?

Your concept of group think is worthy of consideration. They have all been together and lack succesful pro experience, especially on the offensive of the ball. I would opt for an offensive coordinator from without, someone who has proven, successful experience. The reason for this is that it would bring in a whole new mindset and perspective on how to run the offense. Harbaugh could benefit from this immensely.
I agree with your. The innovativeness of Harbaugh and Roman, the athletisicm and unique skill set of Kap it all synergized last year to propell them to the SB. This year, the NFL caught up. Now there "closed culture" from Stanford days may be a real limitation. Maybe that's why they brought Mangini in. It certainly hasn't seemed to be helpful.
Interesting post, sfout. I think what you're saying is a very plausible scenario. I feel there is a certain degree of complacency within this coaching staff. They know something is wrong, but have been together for so long that Harbaugh or anyone else in position of authority does not have the guts to make the tough, necessary decisions.

You point to John Harbaugh's situation with Cam Cameron. Cameron was a very successful O coordinator for a long time, and had a history with John. That didn't stop him from making the tough decision and parting ways when things weren't working. Jim could be at a similar cross roads.

It's funny how the media's and fan's perception of Roman is completely different. The media says he's a genius, future HC. We want him fired on the spot. It's historic how little Roman gets out of our offensive talent. I don't think you can find an OC who gets less with more. Harbaugh needs to sit down and have a heart to heart with Roman. Turn this around or you're s**t canned. This offense is completely unacceptable. An embarrassment to the profession.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Nov 17, 2013 at 8:43 PM ]
I don't disagree, everyone Harbaugh brought in is basically a buddy of his. Morton, Roman, Curry....etc. On defense it seemed to have worked out, on offense, not so much.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Interesting post, sfout. I think what you're saying is a very plausible scenario. I feel there is a certain degree of complacency within this coaching staff. They know something is wrong, but have been together for so long that Harbaugh or anyone else in position of authority does not have the guts to make the tough, necessary decisions.

You point to John Harbaugh's situation with Cam Cameron. Cameron was a very successful O coordinator for a long time, and had a history with John. That didn't stop him from making the tough decision and parting ways when things weren't working. Jim could be at a similar cross roads.

It's funny how the media's and fan's perception of Roman is completely different. The media says he's a genius, future HC. We want him fired on the spot. It's historic how little Roman gets out of our offensive talent. I don't think you can find an OC who gets less with more. Harbaugh needs to sit down and have a heart to heart with Roman. Turn this around or you're s**t canned. This offense is completely unacceptable. An embarrassment to the profession.


Cam Cameron had no business being an OC in the NFL and neither doe Greg Roman, hopefully this time next season Roman is off being a head coach or an offensive coordinator for a college team in the same manner that Cameron is.



Another connection? Cam Cameron was also at Michigan where he was largely influenced by Bo Schembechler's offense. He was a coach while Jim Harbaugh was a QB there too.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 17, 2013 at 9:00 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I don't disagree, everyone Harbaugh brought in is basically a buddy of his. Morton, Roman, Curry....etc. On defense it seemed to have worked out, on offense, not so much.

The "Good Ole Boys" system.
Originally posted by robniner:
The "Good Ole Boys" system.

It is how Hostler ended up as OC of the 49ers. My worry is that even if Harbaugh cuts ties with Roman, it would only result in Chryst being promoted to that position rather than bringing in someone from outside the organization who may have a different perspective and new ideas/vision.
Bring back Martz!
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Bring back Martz!

I'd take Martz back in a heartbeat, at least the passing offense wasn't ranked dead last in the NFL. It was the last 49ers passing offense that ranked in the top 15 in the NFL. If you could perform a scientific experiment to mold Martz and Roman together, you might end up with a pretty good all-around OC.
Great post. I do believe these guys need to do something to upgrade the offense. We don't seem to run any offensive plays that other teams run every week at least once or twice a drive. It is very aggravating to watch this every week with no change.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by robniner:
The "Good Ole Boys" system.

It is how Hostler ended up as OC of the 49ers. My worry is that even if Harbaugh cuts ties with Roman, it would only result in Chryst being promoted to that position rather than bringing in someone from outside the organization who may have a different perspective and new ideas/vision.

Yup
Or Rathman or Morton
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Bring back Martz!

I'd take Martz back in a heartbeat, at least the passing offense wasn't ranked dead last in the NFL. It was the last 49ers passing offense that ranked in the top 15 in the NFL. If you could perform a scientific experiment to mold Martz and Roman together, you might end up with a pretty good all-around OC.

Remember those days when JT O'Sullivan was initially throwing lightning bolts around the field and we thought he was the second coming of Dan Marino.
I think Norv Turner would be the ideal OC for this team, unfortunately he's taken.

If Kaepernick is ideally an attacking deep ball QB, and we are a power run team at heart......no better OC, IMHO.

If he made Alex Smith a gunslinger in '06, that's all you need to know.
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
I think Norv Turner would be the ideal OC for this team, unfortunately he's taken.

If Kaepernick is ideally an attacking deep ball QB, and we are a power run team at heart......no better OC, IMHO.

If he made Alex Smith a gunslinger in '06, that's all you need to know.

i remember 06 a little differently than you lol. all we did was run gore all game long from what i remember. id be happy bringing martz back in. kap is built to throw deep. get some fast receivers and get a spread OC and embrace the change.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's funny how the media's and fan's perception of Roman is completely different. The media says he's a genius, future HC. We want him fired on the spot.

The average paying fan probably doesn't even know who Greg Roman is and all they know is what they see on the TV screen. As far as they're concerned, Kaepernick sucks and Alex Smith is 9-1. Kaepernick deserves plenty of blame, but Roman needs to go. I think it would be harder for Jim to can him than John to can Cameron because John hired Cam from the ouside but Jim and Greg came up together from college to the pros. There's bound to be a bit more camaraderie there.

Also, even as Grant Cohn called out Harbaugh in the press conference last week for not running any screen plays, he said "point well taken" and well, you saw what I saw during this game.