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Kap or playcalling?

Kap or playcalling?

Originally posted by Niners99:
Bad OL play combined with bad playcalling will ALWAYS sink a young QB. Period.

People blaming Kap know nothing about football.

People solely blaming one thing or the other know nothing about football. Kaepernick has been exposed to have pretty lackluster decision making and even worse pocket presence. When he hesitates on wide open passes, either his confidence has been shot or his field vision is just that bad. The guy bails out of the pocket too much which puts him at risk of turnovers and sacks. Even if the pass rush is closing in because he still hasn't gotten the pass out, often times he can step up into the pocket and make a throw before the rushers get to him. He's either unwilling to get hit or doesn't trust his own accuracy.

The playcalling is bad because it doesn't do a young QB any favors. The coaching staff was great at masking Alex Smith's weaknesses with their style of football and plays, but is failing miserably with Kaepernick. You can look to other posters as to more specifics as to why the playcalling isn't good.

The receivers aren't the best either, but at some point you need to make do with what you have. Teams with backup QBs that have worse targets than Vernon Davis, Anquan Boldin, and Mario Manningham have done better. Much better. Coaching has a lot to do with putting players in position to make plays, but even the best coaching finds that the results are often in the hands of the players because improvisation on-the-field is inevitable. Nobody on offense is doing their job in that regard, and generally that comes down to the QB.
The answer is both.

Kap is struggling but he's definitely not getting a whole lot of help from the guys around him from the guys on the field and up in the booth.

You have to remember Roman was the Run Game Coordinator at Standford and now your starting to see why he was just that and not a full on OC. Roman is a brilliant mind when it comes to the running game but he's horrible when it comes to coming up with passing plays and calling passing plays.

I mean just look at the Saint's operate on offense compared to the way we operate.

They've got the screen game going, they've got guys at different parts of the field finding soft spots in defenses, they create plays to get guys open, and Payton has a pretty good feel for calling plays.

Instead of using LMJ like the Saints use Sproles and try to get him into space we'll run him right up the gut on 3rd and 2. And speaking of running right up the gut why don't we do that every 1st down play when they most expect it instead of taking a couple of shots with play action.

The offense is piss poor for a variety of reasons and it's not accurate to put blame on just one guy or position. Everyone has thrown a turd into the big steamy pile of poop that is our offense.
[ Edited by Jikkle49 on Nov 17, 2013 at 6:14 PM ]
It's both, not one or the other.

But Kaep is going to get the bulk of the blame if he keeps making mental mistakes.
I dont know how you can say its Kap right now. LOOK AT THE PLAYS!!!! Has Kap regressed from his playoff run, absolutely... but that is on the coaches. He has done nothing but train hard and do what they tell him to do. Its called managing your managers (Kap as the QB obviously being a manager). This game was the PERFECT example... I wish I had coaches cam to show you guys, but MULTIPLE times I saw:

1) LMJ being brought in to run up the middle... ? seriously! You really think your that sneaky Roman??
2) heavy set personnel only to run a play action fake but only have ONE receiver in coverage against 4 defensive backs.... Please share the crack pipe Roman
3) No adjustments when the saints basically were advertising their defensive coverage.... even the f*cking dumba$$ announcers joe buck and aikmen mentioned how obvious the saints defense was to read.
4) How many wasted timeouts does it take to reach the center of a tootsie pop? Seriously, this offense had tried to take another step forward but what it has actually done is basically handicap this team when its on the road. Of course when we are at home its nice to use multiple formations and a bunch of rope-a-dope to expose the coverage of the defense... but that sh*t dont work on the road!

If Roman is still employed come tuesday Im just gonna have to temper my expectations... at the beginning of the season it was "super bowl or bust", now its "ill be happy if we dont get blown out in our wild card game... if we even make it that far"
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by jreff22:
both

No, kap needs weapons

lol...we could always call up Swain and Hastings
The Gore drop was huge. That being said watch any game and you'll hear every commentator saying no one is open nor is he getting much time. The line gives up sacks at the worst time. The next two games are huge as far as keeping ahead in the final playoff spot. Crabtree coming back will start to open things up.
Originally posted by 5280High:
I dont know how you can say its Kap right now. LOOK AT THE PLAYS!!!! Has Kap regressed from his playoff run, absolutely... but that is on the coaches. He has done nothing but train hard and do what they tell him to do. Its called managing your managers (Kap as the QB obviously being a manager). This game was the PERFECT example... I wish I had coaches cam to show you guys, but MULTIPLE times I saw:

1) LMJ being brought in to run up the middle... ? seriously! You really think your that sneaky Roman??
2) heavy set personnel only to run a play action fake but only have ONE receiver in coverage against 4 defensive backs.... Please share the crack pipe Roman
3) No adjustments when the saints basically were advertising their defensive coverage.... even the f*cking dumba$$ announcers joe buck and aikmen mentioned how obvious the saints defense was to read.
4) How many wasted timeouts does it take to reach the center of a tootsie pop? Seriously, this offense had tried to take another step forward but what it has actually done is basically handicap this team when its on the road. Of course when we are at home its nice to use multiple formations and a bunch of rope-a-dope to expose the coverage of the defense... but that sh*t dont work on the road!

If Roman is still employed come tuesday Im just gonna have to temper my expectations... at the beginning of the season it was "super bowl or bust", now its "ill be happy if we dont get blown out in our wild card game... if we even make it that far"

The coaches want Kaep to learn to throw from the pocket, I can bet they also understand by having Kaep in school right now that the playoffs might be far from a reach at this point. I don't think they count on making it in this year and probably will be ready next season. Even if Crabs comes back, teams will take him away because that will be his first read.
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
The answer is both.

Kap is struggling but he's definitely not getting a whole lot of help from the guys around him from the guys on the field and up in the booth.

You have to remember Roman was the Run Game Coordinator at Standford and now your starting to see why he was just that and not a full on OC. Roman is a brilliant mind when it comes to the running game but he's horrible when it comes to coming up with passing plays and calling passing plays.

I mean just look at the Saint's operate on offense compared to the way we operate.

They've got the screen game going, they've got guys at different parts of the field finding soft spots in defenses, they create plays to get guys open, and Payton has a pretty good feel for calling plays.

Instead of using LMJ like the Saints use Sproles and try to get him into space we'll run him right up the gut on 3rd and 2. And speaking of running right up the gut why don't we do that every 1st down play when they most expect it instead of taking a couple of shots with play action.

The offense is piss poor for a variety of reasons and it's not accurate to put blame on just one guy or position. Everyone has thrown a turd into the big steamy pile of poop that is our offense.



I've been saying for two years now that on offense, this coaching staff has no clue how to use a guy to maximize his abilities, to the contrary, they'll often use guys with completely different abilities almost interchangeably, it doesn't make any damn sense.
The biggest difference is, last year the offense played to Kaepernick's strenghts, and this year they are playing to his weaknesses. Kaepernick is best when he is allowed to move around, and have the option to run or throw outside the pocket. First of all, this buys more time for our receivers to try and get open. Second, this causes the d-backs and LB's to come off the receivers in order to cover Kaepernick's running threat. A perfect example today was that roll-out where Kaep acted like he was going to take off and run, and then dumped it over the d-back to Gore as the d-back came up to defend Kaep. Unfortunately, the ball was dropped, or that play goes for a TD. But because Kaep hardly ever moves outside the pocket on pass plays anymore, the defense doesn't have to worry about him running, and can focus on blanketing our slow receivers. These 7 step drop-backs, standing like a statue have to stop. That's not what Kaepernick does best.
  • MarkD
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,095
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by captain_planet:
Obviously it's partially "both," but this poll is good because it forces a choice between Kap or Roman as the person who is most responsible. I think it's Kap right now. He's still missing open guys, hesitating, not making the proper pre-snap adjustments, etc., FAR TOO OFTEN.

Kaepernick isn't responsible for the playcalling. Fix the playcalling issues, see what Kaepernick does, if he still struggles, look to replace him as well, but the playcalling, first and foremost is the most pressing issue, this offense is incredibly predictable and plays into the hand of the defense, it doesn't force defense's to adapt or adjust, the Saints played their game on defense happily the way they had it drawn up, they took big risks to cheat and stop the run and the 49ers never really made them pay for it.
.
[ Edited by MarkD on Nov 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM ]
Both are f**king pathetic.

Blame goes like this IMO

Harbaugh
Kap
Roman
I think Kap has hit the sophomore wall and I am disappointed because I thought he was better than that but apparently not. Play calling was not the best but players play the game and in big games you have to have big time performances.
Originally posted by Baldie:
Originally posted by 5280High:
I dont know how you can say its Kap right now. LOOK AT THE PLAYS!!!! Has Kap regressed from his playoff run, absolutely... but that is on the coaches. He has done nothing but train hard and do what they tell him to do. Its called managing your managers (Kap as the QB obviously being a manager). This game was the PERFECT example... I wish I had coaches cam to show you guys, but MULTIPLE times I saw:

1) LMJ being brought in to run up the middle... ? seriously! You really think your that sneaky Roman??
2) heavy set personnel only to run a play action fake but only have ONE receiver in coverage against 4 defensive backs.... Please share the crack pipe Roman
3) No adjustments when the saints basically were advertising their defensive coverage.... even the f*cking dumba$$ announcers joe buck and aikmen mentioned how obvious the saints defense was to read.
4) How many wasted timeouts does it take to reach the center of a tootsie pop? Seriously, this offense had tried to take another step forward but what it has actually done is basically handicap this team when its on the road. Of course when we are at home its nice to use multiple formations and a bunch of rope-a-dope to expose the coverage of the defense... but that sh*t dont work on the road!

If Roman is still employed come tuesday Im just gonna have to temper my expectations... at the beginning of the season it was "super bowl or bust", now its "ill be happy if we dont get blown out in our wild card game... if we even make it that far"

The coaches want Kaep to learn to throw from the pocket, I can bet they also understand by having Kaep in school right now that the playoffs might be far from a reach at this point. I don't think they count on making it in this year and probably will be ready next season. Even if Crabs comes back, teams will take him away because that will be his first read.

He knows how to throw from the pocket, look at the statistics from last year. I dont buy it for one second. Crabs coming back will have a substantial beneficial impact you have understated. If the double Crabs, then at the very least one of AB or VD are singled, that is a win. But none of that will even matter within this system because we will have to travel on the road, and this formation changing BS and round robin rotations will do nothing but handicap this offense and give the defense a step up because all they have to do is wait till the play clock hits 1 and go.
It has to be both, but most of the blame is on coaching, because you look around the league and see a number of teams that don't have many weapons (most have fewer) and a QB who isn't that great, yet they still manage to move the ball and establish some rhythm on offense. The 49ers offense today was their defense. If the D hadn't given them short fields all day they would have scored 10 points or fewer, and been blown out. It's sickening to watch this week after week knowing that with a better coaching staff this team would probably be 9-1 right now.
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
It's really a mix of both. Kaep has hit the "sophomore wall" I think. But Roman's play design and calling has been hideous. Couple that with injuries throughout the team and you get a struggling team.

That being said, Kaep absolutely needs to lift this team up if he thinks he's a franchise QB. The intermediate and deep throws have not been happening this year and Kaep is struggling to go through his reads. He also seems extremely reluctant to tuck and run this year. I don't know if that is because of coaching in the offseason or some lingering injury issue. But it has seem pretty apparent to me he's sticking to the pocket and throwing balls away more often.

Ghost of Alex Smith