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Defensive Coordinators Must Laugh At Us

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SDDAVE:
I would bet that most DC's spend about a day on planning how to defend us if they are honest and see what we see. They see a team that does
not stretch the field vertically or horizontally. With no WR speed to account for excepting Vernon who can be doubled, the length of the field is greatly shortened. With no safety valve or outlet passes for the QB to go to, no screens, flare passes, slants, and speedy, elusive running backs being called to run up the gut most of the time, the defense does not have to cover the field horizontally. The outside LB's have nothing to do. Talk about creating a small box for the defense to have to cover! As a consequence, the OL is assaulted by seven or eight pass rushers, creating incredible mismatches and quick, severe pressure on CK. With his outside running lanes contained, he has nowhere to go with the ball and looks horrible. We are not even close to looking like a WCO. It's serial fraud to state that we are. It's as believable as Obama telling us we can keep our policies if we like them. LOL

Bill Walsh's whole plan was to make the defense cover the entire field and I mean all of it. Let's take 1989 as an example when the Niners went to the Super Bowl. Yes we had Jerry Rice and John Taylor at WR and use them to illustrate I am not taking the easy way out. And we had a superb TE in Brent Jones. But what made the offense was the way we got the ball to the RB's to make plays and force the defense to cover the entire field. With Tom Rathman and Roger Craig together in the same backfield, they accounted for 122 pass receptions for 1,089 yards and 1,359 yards rushing. So the defense literally had to cover the whole field. Often times the LB's were confused in coverage creating big plays. The pressure put on the defense probably made the OL look better than they were, since a majority of the defenders were assigned coverage responsibilities. The scheme was magnificent.

Which brings me to the negative news that today we have 4 potential receivers in our offense who are being completely wasted. Their names are Gore, Hunter, James and Dixon, guys who know how to really run in space. Between them they have 13 catches for 133 yards which extrapolates to a season totals of 24 catches for 240 yards. Compare to Craig and Rathman above. And that is how you move the chains. So there are only two reasons why this is happening - Roman is really out of his element as an OC, or more frightening is the hearsay that CK is not really comfortable throwing the short passes required in the WCO. If this is the case we are in deep doo-doo, with no hope in sight. The Chiefs to not look like the toast of the NFL offensively, but they are running the WCO the way it is supposed to be run - moving the chains, eating up clock, resting the defense.

.

You, clearly, are a smart fan who gets it! Nice post (although this one could probably go under the Roman thread).

I understand the easy cop out is to blame our piss poor passing attack (esp. when it matters) on injuries that happened last year/off season but give me a break, it's not like we didn't have PLENTY of time to prepare and counter with competent game planning and receiver development. Even w/o Crabtree and Manningham out for the majority of the year, NOBODY is going to convince me we still don't have x10 the talent other teams currently have (and are getting x5 more production out of compared to us). THAT is 100% on the coaches. Period. All this blame on CK? Laughable IMHO. I'd love to hear someone convince me that we don't have ENOUGH talent with players such as: Gore, Hunter, James, Miller, McDonald, VD, Boldin, Baldwin, Patton, hell even Moore (brought in to stretch the field) and Williams (best ideal in the slot) plus we had others developing like Marqueis Gray and Chris Harper in to develop as H-backs, Harbaugh's favorite FB of all time, etc. That is a TON of receiving talent that could be used to compliment the already-effective Gore/Hunter run-game.

At bare mimimum, we essentially have the best FB and TE in the game, one of the very best WR's in Boldin...coupled with a #1 rushing attack. The excuses are running out people. Again, why do we need a "full aresenal" with 3 Calvin Johnson's, 2 Jimmy Graham's and a Darren Sproles before we can be a dominate passing offense that compliments our top rushing attack and defense?
yep I agree,your are on point,The porblems are with COACHING...this Smell Likes the crap that Nowin and Singleminded were Spreading not long ago.

Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
In my opinion, the frustrating thing about a topic like this is that it lacks perspective. Here are some facts:

1) Carolina is an elite defense. Right now, at this moment, their defense might be even better than ours. They shut down our offense, yes. They have also shut down a @$#%^load of other offense this year. It's what they do.

2) Our offense also got shut down in Seattle. Right now, at this moment, Seattle's defense might be even better than ours. They shut down our offense, yes. They have also shut down a @$#%^load of other offense this year. It's what they do.

3) Against the weaker teams, we did not need to pass as much, so we didn't. This lead to lower statistical passing numbers.

4) Our biggest passing struggles have come when Vernon Davis is out of the game. Which also happen to be at the same time when Michael Crabtree is out of the game as he has been all year. Also, #3 WR Mario Manningham is still gimpy. (I wonder how good Drew Brees would do today if Jimmy Graham, Marcus Colston and Lance Moore all had to leave the game because of injuries.)

5) Our offensive line is really struggling in pass protection.

6) Kaepernick is still a VERY young QB, and still adjusting to the pro game.

7) We have scored the 10th most points in the league. That's right, despite all of the above obstacles, we have still scored the 10th most points.

More or less, those are the facts. Our offense is not terrible, or laughable. Why? Because 2/3 of the league scores LESS. The problem I have with this type of topic is that it is hyperbole. It's over-stated.

Yes, our offense has struggled. We have, perhaps, the best running attack in the league, however, when Vernon Davis is out we really struggle passing the ball. But why is this surprising? Why is this generating so much reaction? Why is Kaepernick getting so much attention? It's not like Alex Smith was ever able to light it up. I seem to recall a couple of godawful offensive performances, such as at Baltimore on Thanksgiving 2011 and against the New York Giants 2012. Those were Alex Smith led offenses (off the top of my head, I don't think we scored a TD in either of those games.)

I suggest the reason this is causing such enormous reaction is because of the enormous success that Kaepernick, Greg Roman, and Harbaugh achieved in the passing game at the end of last year. Because of that success, everybody saw the raw talent that Kaepernick possessed. Because of that success, everybody got to see the creative genius of Greg Roman on full display when everything is working right. Big plays in the passing game. Runs that gashed the defense. The expectations were that we would be a top 5 offense in the NFL.

However, when we struggle to put up points, it is contrary to the above expectations. And it is frustrating. But don't "bite the hand that feeds you"! Alex Smith is not better than Colin Kaepernick. Colin Kaepernick can still develop into a top 5 QB, and he will. There may be good offensive coordinators out there, but keep in mind that Greg Roman is a very bright and very talented offensive coordinator. He has proven as much in the past. Yes, Kaepernick must take some of the blame here. He needs to be more decisive and spread the ball around more. Yes, the lack of receiving options is part of the blame here. Yes, the poor pass protection is some of the blame here. Yes, the play calls have been part of the blame here. Yes, we need to show some improvement if we are to make a legitimate Super Bowl run this year.

But our offense isn't LAUGHABLE.

Greg Romlan is a VERY Stubborn OC
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by hofer36:
yet some on the board continue to maintain that the niners offense strikes fear in opposing defenses

so many keep saying" if roman gets his head out of his ass" we will be unstoppable. when do we stop saying that because his head is stuck up his ass against good teams and JH lets him go. if we are not careful we will find ourselves on the outside looking in come playoff time still saying,,," well if roman gets his s**t together we will be unstoppable"
X2
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
A loss would "do some serious damage" is different than we are not making the playoffs. I am not advocating that a loss is a good thing, that it is ok, or that we should turn a blind eye to offensive struggles. But don't say at 6-3 that we can't lose another game. Frankly, even saying a loss would do some serious damage is an overstatement. We could lose another game, two, and probably three and still make the playoffs.

The "message" sent by Harbaugh by kicking a field goal on 4th down? This has nothing to do with the passing offense. We are the best (or one of the very best) running offenses in the league. I still believe that kicking the field goal was the right tactical decision. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

But your comment "If the team ends up not ready to play the game and gets blown today we could be headed for a free fall." is the most revealing. It is exactly the kind of hyperbole that I do not believe in and is evidence of a "the sky is falling" type of mindset. We may lose today, we may win. But it isn't the be all and end all of the season. If Kaepernick throws for 400 yards today and we win by 30 points, it doesn't solve all problems. We may get blown out, and that doesn't mean that the season is lost.

How to other teams deal with adversity (injuries) like we have dealt with? Well, one example would be the Atlanta Falcons. They are pushing a 2-8 after going 13-3. For them, the sky is falling. For us, we hit some bumps in the road.
why are injuries all of a sudden an excuse for last sundays poor play. we had injuries and no aldon when we won five games in a row, now all of a sudden that is the excuse we use, b******t, if we are the elite team we have been led to believe we are,, then we should rise above that stuff. in reality good teams know how to expose us and our coaches can not adjust, if they were able to adjust we would not have been stumbling around like fools last sunday messing with field goals. the bumps we have hit are against teams with winning records and the same things have lead to each loss which tells me they are not bumps
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
ya im sure the six teams weve utterly destroyed on defense laughed at us a lot.

we constantly get exposed vs good teams and its not being fixed, that is laughable , sad, upsetting, whatever
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by cciowa:
the phrase kicking the can down the road and whistling past the endzone would love to just leap right off my keyboard. i know it is illegal to question the offense during the season to some fans but I am sorry, I think there are serious issues with this team when we play good people that need to be looked at now. have you been paying attention sir? the bad offense comes vs good teams, the same things keep happening. so we should just enjoy a game like last sunday and the colts and seattle and just worry about when the season is over?

When we become the 2013 Atlanta Falcons (going from 13-3 to soon to be 2-8) get back to me... Right now we are in line to make the playoffs, so no you don't get to question the offense, other then to say we are without our best weapons and have a still developing QB.

91 yards passing doe?
Next to dead last in passing yards?
Inability to put up double digit points against above average/elite defenses?

Can you really blame people for being concerned? Who cares if we can beat up scrub teams, teams we're supposed to beat, if we roll over against every team with a winning record? You guys want to talk playoffs but do you seriously think we'll make it far with our offense looking like this? C'mon now...
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by NeonNiner:
91 yards passing doe?
Next to dead last in passing yards?
Inability to put up double digit points against above average/elite defenses?

Can you really blame people for being concerned? Who cares if we can beat up scrub teams, teams we're supposed to beat, if we roll over against every team with a winning record? You guys want to talk playoffs but do you seriously think we'll make it far with our offense looking like this? C'mon now...
neon, sad to say, said nothing wrong. well when a team is backed into a corner they are supposed to come out swinging and not go into a fetal position, we will find out in about five minutes
Roman needs to f*cking go, this offense is rudimentary. The offensive staff is absolutely laughable, they are competing with the Raye gun for worst offense in niners history. And Paraag needs to have his review duties revoked, whoever keeps telling Harbaugh to challenge is a f*cking retard.
Example: let's take Gore and hunter out of the game and have LMJ run up the middle... Like how does Roman still have a job
Originally posted by 5280High:
Example: let's take Gore and hunter out of the game and have LMJ run up the middle... Like how does Roman still have a job

perfect example of these coaches logic. lets lose the game purposely
Just got a text from my buddy who is a Cardinals fan.

"This niner offense is super confusing. Wtf are they trying to do?"

Mind you, this was not normal s88t-talk.

The next text: "It reminds my of Whisenhunt's pass offense"






It is official. The Roman argument is over. Roman sucks. There is no excusing it anymore, so for those blaming the QB or the receivers, just stop.
  • LVJay
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  • Posts: 5,247
They begin laughing the moment they look at Romans (3 chins) face... that's just for starters.
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Just got a text from my buddy who is a Cardinals fan.

"This niner offense is super confusing. Wtf are they trying to do?"

Mind you, this was not normal s88t-talk.

The next text: "It reminds my of Whisenhunt's pass offense"






It is official. The Roman argument is over. Roman sucks. There is no excusing it anymore, so for those blaming the QB or the receivers, just stop.

100% spot on. Roman has been exposed, these plays are so bad it is inexcusable. I've rewatched soo many plays in the first half and I can't even fathom the logic of our pass plays, they are so bad. Keep 10 guys on the line, play action and then send only one receiver on a route?!?! Wtf, half this sh*t won't even trick a highschool defense let alone an NFL one.
I will give him credit this game. They are doing some things they do not usually do. The back shoulder throw and that last TD, for one.

The problems are still visible though. This offense could be much better at controlling the pace of the game if they would just take what was given more.

The Saints almost always have two guys working the short routes to give Brees a dump off, and Roman just does not do this nearly enough.

I still want to see a screen to the RB.
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
When we're not playing above average to elite defenses, maybe.

Well, that's what makes good defenses good. See: Drew Brees' passing numbers vs. the 49ers today. Your point isn't lost on me though, we definitely need to improve on offense.