There are 173 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Defensive Coordinators Must Laugh At Us

I think it would serve us well to employ a split-back set with Gore and James VD, Boldin and Manningham at the receiver spots. It would slow down the pass rush, open both running and passing lanes anr not allow you to double team. It would also allow Kaep to use his legs more if need be.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,859
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by cciowa:
that was then, this is now. are you saying we are supposed to set back and enjoy the offense as it was last sunday and as it has been in games vs good teams just because we have had success in the last two years? Jh will not get fired even if we fail to win a game for the rest of the year however if we continue to struggle on offense vs good teams he needs to make big changes internally . if he refuses then he deserves to get the ax... Oh and bringing in x niners like jerry rice is not the answer. great players do not make great coaches. he expects all wide outs to play and focus the way he did. he would get fed up with things after two days in my opinion

Most fans really stop need this week to week stuff. One bad offensive week doesn't mean the end of the Harbaugh era. Kap is struggling and its compounded by the fact he looked so good last year. He is a young QB still learning and his best offensive weapon (Crabs) has been out all year and his most physically gifted (Davis) has had some injury issues. Its hard when your still learning to be without your best weapons. If you want to question the offense you have a 6 month off season to do it, when you will actually have a full season to review.
the phrase kicking the can down the road and whistling past the endzone would love to just leap right off my keyboard. i know it is illegal to question the offense during the season to some fans but I am sorry, I think there are serious issues with this team when we play good people that need to be looked at now. have you been paying attention sir? the bad offense comes vs good teams, the same things keep happening. so we should just enjoy a game like last sunday and the colts and seattle and just worry about when the season is over?
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,859
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by cciowa:
that was then, this is now. are you saying we are supposed to set back and enjoy the offense as it was last sunday and as it has been in games vs good teams just because we have had success in the last two years? Jh will not get fired even if we fail to win a game for the rest of the year however if we continue to struggle on offense vs good teams he needs to make big changes internally . if he refuses then he deserves to get the ax... Oh and bringing in x niners like jerry rice is not the answer. great players do not make great coaches. he expects all wide outs to play and focus the way he did. he would get fed up with things after two days in my opinion

Dude, stop panicking man. Every post I see from you seems like the sky is falling and the red panic button had already been pushed. Relax!! We'll beat the 'Aints today.
98 per cent of my posts have been very very positive this year before last week,, that is because i woke up and saw this team is unable to beat a good team and these coaches seem to be unwilling to put our players in a position to win a game vs a good team. when it happens vs the hawks, no biggie as the hawks were better up there on that day, the colts was the first clue something was wrong(actually the rams games last year were the first clue something was wrong with roman but thats a whole other story).. when roman ran away from the run to get cute,, we put a band aid on things by playing bad teams for a few games and then it all came back again last sunday. that is just not a bump in the road my friend. that is a disturbing pattern. hope you are right, hope we win today and i can come back on and say i did over react.. However if we lose and our offense stumbles around like it did last week, what are you going to say? are you going to "relax"?
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,859
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Well, there are those fans who honestly believe the sky is falling. Wow.

I guess if you lose today, we can't make the playoffs. Crazy.
well, since we are in the mix with alot of teams with winning records a loss today would do some serious damage. as i said earlier, in a sad way, if we beat all the teams with bad records on our schedule and lose to teams with winning records we can be in the mix. I think alot of people are rightfully concerned about the message roman/jh sent to the team last week that they were not good enough to get a first down on fourth and short from the one. If the team ends up not ready to play the game and gets blown today we could be headed for a free fall. after 1-2, Jh deserves credit for keeping the ship going with no inner team conflict but he also got lucky and played some dogs right after 1-2. the highly motivated saints who are playing very well right now on both sides of the ball at home is not a dog
ya im sure the six teams weve utterly destroyed on defense laughed at us a lot.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SDDAVE:
I would bet that most DC's spend about a day on planning how to defend us if they are honest and see what we see. They see a team that does
not stretch the field vertically or horizontally. With no WR speed to account for excepting Vernon who can be doubled, the length of the field is greatly shortened. With no safety valve or outlet passes for the QB to go to, no screens, flare passes, slants, and speedy, elusive running backs being called to run up the gut most of the time, the defense does not have to cover the field horizontally. The outside LB's have nothing to do. Talk about creating a small box for the defense to have to cover! As a consequence, the OL is assaulted by seven or eight pass rushers, creating incredible mismatches and quick, severe pressure on CK. With his outside running lanes contained, he has nowhere to go with the ball and looks horrible. We are not even close to looking like a WCO. It's serial fraud to state that we are. It's as believable as Obama telling us we can keep our policies if we like them. LOL

Bill Walsh's whole plan was to make the defense cover the entire field and I mean all of it. Let's take 1989 as an example when the Niners went to the Super Bowl. Yes we had Jerry Rice and John Taylor at WR and use them to illustrate I am not taking the easy way out. And we had a superb TE in Brent Jones. But what made the offense was the way we got the ball to the RB's to make plays and force the defense to cover the entire field. With Tom Rathman and Roger Craig together in the same backfield, they accounted for 122 pass receptions for 1,089 yards and 1,359 yards rushing. So the defense literally had to cover the whole field. Often times the LB's were confused in coverage creating big plays. The pressure put on the defense probably made the OL look better than they were, since a majority of the defenders were assigned coverage responsibilities. The scheme was magnificent.

Which brings me to the negative news that today we have 4 potential receivers in our offense who are being completely wasted. Their names are Gore, Hunter, James and Dixon, guys who know how to really run in space. Between them they have 13 catches for 133 yards which extrapolates to a season totals of 24 catches for 240 yards. Compare to Craig and Rathman above. And that is how you move the chains. So there are only two reasons why this is happening - Roman is really out of his element as an OC, or more frightening is the hearsay that CK is not really comfortable throwing the short passes required in the WCO. If this is the case we are in deep doo-doo, with no hope in sight. The Chiefs to not look like the toast of the NFL offensively, but they are running the WCO the way it is supposed to be run - moving the chains, eating up clock, resting the defense.

.

You, clearly, are a smart fan who gets it! Nice post (although this one could probably go under the Roman thread).

I understand the easy cop out is to blame our piss poor passing attack (esp. when it matters) on injuries that happened last year/off season but give me a break, it's not like we didn't have PLENTY of time to prepare and counter with competent game planning and receiver development. Even w/o Crabtree and Manningham out for the majority of the year, NOBODY is going to convince me we still don't have x10 the talent other teams currently have (and are getting x5 more production out of compared to us). THAT is 100% on the coaches. Period. All this blame on CK? Laughable IMHO. I'd love to hear someone convince me that we don't have ENOUGH talent with players such as: Gore, Hunter, James, Miller, McDonald, VD, Boldin, Baldwin, Patton, hell even Moore (brought in to stretch the field) and Williams (best ideal in the slot) plus we had others developing like Marqueis Gray and Chris Harper in to develop as H-backs, Harbaugh's favorite FB of all time, etc. That is a TON of receiving talent that could be used to compliment the already-effective Gore/Hunter run-game.

At bare mimimum, we essentially have the best FB and TE in the game, one of the very best WR's in Boldin...coupled with a #1 rushing attack. The excuses are running out people. Again, why do we need a "full aresenal" with 3 Calvin Johnson's, 2 Jimmy Graham's and a Darren Sproles before we can be a dominate passing offense that compliments our top rushing attack and defense?
yep I agree,your are on point,The porblems are with COACHING...this Smell Likes the crap that Nowin and Singleminded were Spreading not long ago.
The sky is cracked...pieces hanging by a thread...little pieces floating in the atmosphere...storm clouds above...playing in NO...against a very beatable team...oh my!
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,033
Originally posted by cciowa:
the phrase kicking the can down the road and whistling past the endzone would love to just leap right off my keyboard. i know it is illegal to question the offense during the season to some fans but I am sorry, I think there are serious issues with this team when we play good people that need to be looked at now. have you been paying attention sir? the bad offense comes vs good teams, the same things keep happening. so we should just enjoy a game like last sunday and the colts and seattle and just worry about when the season is over?

When we become the 2013 Atlanta Falcons (going from 13-3 to soon to be 2-8) get back to me... Right now we are in line to make the playoffs, so no you don't get to question the offense, other then to say we are without our best weapons and have a still developing QB.
Guess Roman won't be going anywhere... I just don't get how we became so vanilla on offense.
Originally posted by Jcool:
When we become the 2013 Atlanta Falcons (going from 13-3 to soon to be 2-8) get back to me... Right now we are in line to make the playoffs, so no you don't get to question the offense, other then to say we are without our best weapons and have a still developing QB.

Quite a benchmark you set! Is there anything in between? Can we worry if they lose today?
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Well, there are those fans who honestly believe the sky is falling. Wow.

I guess if you lose today, we can't make the playoffs. Crazy.
well, since we are in the mix with alot of teams with winning records a loss today would do some serious damage. as i said earlier, in a sad way, if we beat all the teams with bad records on our schedule and lose to teams with winning records we can be in the mix. I think alot of people are rightfully concerned about the message roman/jh sent to the team last week that they were not good enough to get a first down on fourth and short from the one. If the team ends up not ready to play the game and gets blown today we could be headed for a free fall. after 1-2, Jh deserves credit for keeping the ship going with no inner team conflict but he also got lucky and played some dogs right after 1-2. the highly motivated saints who are playing very well right now on both sides of the ball at home is not a dog

A loss would "do some serious damage" is different than we are not making the playoffs. I am not advocating that a loss is a good thing, that it is ok, or that we should turn a blind eye to offensive struggles. But don't say at 6-3 that we can't lose another game. Frankly, even saying a loss would do some serious damage is an overstatement. We could lose another game, two, and probably three and still make the playoffs.

The "message" sent by Harbaugh by kicking a field goal on 4th down? This has nothing to do with the passing offense. We are the best (or one of the very best) running offenses in the league. I still believe that kicking the field goal was the right tactical decision. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

But your comment "If the team ends up not ready to play the game and gets blown today we could be headed for a free fall." is the most revealing. It is exactly the kind of hyperbole that I do not believe in and is evidence of a "the sky is falling" type of mindset. We may lose today, we may win. But it isn't the be all and end all of the season. If Kaepernick throws for 400 yards today and we win by 30 points, it doesn't solve all problems. We may get blown out, and that doesn't mean that the season is lost.

How to other teams deal with adversity (injuries) like we have dealt with? Well, one example would be the Atlanta Falcons. They are pushing a 2-8 after going 13-3. For them, the sky is falling. For us, we hit some bumps in the road.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Jcool:
When we become the 2013 Atlanta Falcons (going from 13-3 to soon to be 2-8) get back to me... Right now we are in line to make the playoffs, so no you don't get to question the offense, other then to say we are without our best weapons and have a still developing QB.

Quite a benchmark you set! Is there anything in between? Can we worry if they lose today?

Isn't "worrying" different than "not making the playoffs" and "our offense is laughable"?
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Isn't "worrying" different than "not making the playoffs" and "our offense is laughable"?

Sure!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SDDAVE:
I would bet that most DC's spend about a day on planning how to defend us if they are honest and see what we see. They see a team that does
not stretch the field vertically or horizontally. With no WR speed to account for excepting Vernon who can be doubled, the length of the field is greatly shortened. With no safety valve or outlet passes for the QB to go to, no screens, flare passes, slants, and speedy, elusive running backs being called to run up the gut most of the time, the defense does not have to cover the field horizontally. The outside LB's have nothing to do. Talk about creating a small box for the defense to have to cover! As a consequence, the OL is assaulted by seven or eight pass rushers, creating incredible mismatches and quick, severe pressure on CK. With his outside running lanes contained, he has nowhere to go with the ball and looks horrible. We are not even close to looking like a WCO. It's serial fraud to state that we are. It's as believable as Obama telling us we can keep our policies if we like them. LOL

Bill Walsh's whole plan was to make the defense cover the entire field and I mean all of it. Let's take 1989 as an example when the Niners went to the Super Bowl. Yes we had Jerry Rice and John Taylor at WR and use them to illustrate I am not taking the easy way out. And we had a superb TE in Brent Jones. But what made the offense was the way we got the ball to the RB's to make plays and force the defense to cover the entire field. With Tom Rathman and Roger Craig together in the same backfield, they accounted for 122 pass receptions for 1,089 yards and 1,359 yards rushing. So the defense literally had to cover the whole field. Often times the LB's were confused in coverage creating big plays. The pressure put on the defense probably made the OL look better than they were, since a majority of the defenders were assigned coverage responsibilities. The scheme was magnificent.

Which brings me to the negative news that today we have 4 potential receivers in our offense who are being completely wasted. Their names are Gore, Hunter, James and Dixon, guys who know how to really run in space. Between them they have 13 catches for 133 yards which extrapolates to a season totals of 24 catches for 240 yards. Compare to Craig and Rathman above. And that is how you move the chains. So there are only two reasons why this is happening - Roman is really out of his element as an OC, or more frightening is the hearsay that CK is not really comfortable throwing the short passes required in the WCO. If this is the case we are in deep doo-doo, with no hope in sight. The Chiefs to not look like the toast of the NFL offensively, but they are running the WCO the way it is supposed to be run - moving the chains, eating up clock, resting the defense.

.

You, clearly, are a smart fan who gets it! Nice post (although this one could probably go under the Roman thread).

I understand the easy cop out is to blame our piss poor passing attack (esp. when it matters) on injuries that happened last year/off season but give me a break, it's not like we didn't have PLENTY of time to prepare and counter with competent game planning and receiver development. Even w/o Crabtree and Manningham out for the majority of the year, NOBODY is going to convince me we still don't have x10 the talent other teams currently have (and are getting x5 more production out of compared to us). THAT is 100% on the coaches. Period. All this blame on CK? Laughable IMHO. I'd love to hear someone convince me that we don't have ENOUGH talent with players such as: Gore, Hunter, James, Miller, McDonald, VD, Boldin, Baldwin, Patton, hell even Moore (brought in to stretch the field) and Williams (best ideal in the slot) plus we had others developing like Marqueis Gray and Chris Harper in to develop as H-backs, Harbaugh's favorite FB of all time, etc. That is a TON of receiving talent that could be used to compliment the already-effective Gore/Hunter run-game.

At bare mimimum, we essentially have the best FB and TE in the game, one of the very best WR's in Boldin...coupled with a #1 rushing attack. The excuses are running out people. Again, why do we need a "full aresenal" with 3 Calvin Johnson's, 2 Jimmy Graham's and a Darren Sproles before we can be a dominate passing offense that compliments our top rushing attack and defense?
yep I agree,your are on point,The porblems are with COACHING...this Smell Likes the crap that Nowin and Singleminded were Spreading not long ago.

Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
In my opinion, the frustrating thing about a topic like this is that it lacks perspective. Here are some facts:

1) Carolina is an elite defense. Right now, at this moment, their defense might be even better than ours. They shut down our offense, yes. They have also shut down a @$#%^load of other offense this year. It's what they do.

2) Our offense also got shut down in Seattle. Right now, at this moment, Seattle's defense might be even better than ours. They shut down our offense, yes. They have also shut down a @$#%^load of other offense this year. It's what they do.

3) Against the weaker teams, we did not need to pass as much, so we didn't. This lead to lower statistical passing numbers.

4) Our biggest passing struggles have come when Vernon Davis is out of the game. Which also happen to be at the same time when Michael Crabtree is out of the game as he has been all year. Also, #3 WR Mario Manningham is still gimpy. (I wonder how good Drew Brees would do today if Jimmy Graham, Marcus Colston and Lance Moore all had to leave the game because of injuries.)

5) Our offensive line is really struggling in pass protection.

6) Kaepernick is still a VERY young QB, and still adjusting to the pro game.

7) We have scored the 10th most points in the league. That's right, despite all of the above obstacles, we have still scored the 10th most points.

More or less, those are the facts. Our offense is not terrible, or laughable. Why? Because 2/3 of the league scores LESS. The problem I have with this type of topic is that it is hyperbole. It's over-stated.

Yes, our offense has struggled. We have, perhaps, the best running attack in the league, however, when Vernon Davis is out we really struggle passing the ball. But why is this surprising? Why is this generating so much reaction? Why is Kaepernick getting so much attention? It's not like Alex Smith was ever able to light it up. I seem to recall a couple of godawful offensive performances, such as at Baltimore on Thanksgiving 2011 and against the New York Giants 2012. Those were Alex Smith led offenses (off the top of my head, I don't think we scored a TD in either of those games.)

I suggest the reason this is causing such enormous reaction is because of the enormous success that Kaepernick, Greg Roman, and Harbaugh achieved in the passing game at the end of last year. Because of that success, everybody saw the raw talent that Kaepernick possessed. Because of that success, everybody got to see the creative genius of Greg Roman on full display when everything is working right. Big plays in the passing game. Runs that gashed the defense. The expectations were that we would be a top 5 offense in the NFL.

However, when we struggle to put up points, it is contrary to the above expectations. And it is frustrating. But don't "bite the hand that feeds you"! Alex Smith is not better than Colin Kaepernick. Colin Kaepernick can still develop into a top 5 QB, and he will. There may be good offensive coordinators out there, but keep in mind that Greg Roman is a very bright and very talented offensive coordinator. He has proven as much in the past. Yes, Kaepernick must take some of the blame here. He needs to be more decisive and spread the ball around more. Yes, the lack of receiving options is part of the blame here. Yes, the poor pass protection is some of the blame here. Yes, the play calls have been part of the blame here. Yes, we need to show some improvement if we are to make a legitimate Super Bowl run this year.

But our offense isn't LAUGHABLE.

Greg Romlan is a VERY Stubborn OC
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,859
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by cciowa:
the phrase kicking the can down the road and whistling past the endzone would love to just leap right off my keyboard. i know it is illegal to question the offense during the season to some fans but I am sorry, I think there are serious issues with this team when we play good people that need to be looked at now. have you been paying attention sir? the bad offense comes vs good teams, the same things keep happening. so we should just enjoy a game like last sunday and the colts and seattle and just worry about when the season is over?

When we become the 2013 Atlanta Falcons (going from 13-3 to soon to be 2-8) get back to me... Right now we are in line to make the playoffs, so no you don't get to question the offense, other then to say we are without our best weapons and have a still developing QB.
what is this, nazi germany? we are now not allowed to question the offense despite the fact there are some serious issues, our passing game is next to last, our oc s**ts the bed against a good team, our third down conversion rate is bad. may god man, we were without our best weapons and won five games in a row,, why is that all of a sudden an excuse for the teams poor play vs good teams? so we got guys hurt and a young quarterback and that is the only issues you see on offense at this point in time? now the phrase head buried in sand comes to mind