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The one and only one way to beat the Saints...and SEA.

Originally posted by Psinex:
In reference to the Baltimore game in which Smith was playing, I remember very clearly when Adam Snyder went down and Chilo Rachal was lined up against Terrell Suggs, Smith had no chance to stand in the pocket for more than 2 seconds. The right side of the line might as well have been on the sideline because they weren't blocking anything except the stadium lights.

Speaking of WCO, the one play I remember seeing was the slant pass that Kaepernick threw out of the end zone to Manningham for the critical 1st down. It was a thing of beauty. I don't know why we don't just run that play like 10 times a game.

Suggs was in the offensive backfield more than Gore and got there from all sorts of angles. They bunched players at the LOS, backed off when the snap came and Suggs came a hesitation later...or without a hesitation...or from the air...our line was just totally outmatched in that game. It was one of the most embarrassing games I have seen in a long time...though they were at least a good team the 9ers lost to.

It has been killing me that they don't go back to what worked. It's as if Roman has the entire game scripted and won't stray from the paper. Terrible adjustments, or non-adjustments!
Lifelong9er and Dtg had it right. The 2-3 second pass, or 1-3 stepper if you will, is needed to get 8,9, 10 guys off the LOS. If kap completes a handful of 6-8 yarders, watch the D adjust and some back off the LOS, thus opening holes for frank. It is darn near impossible to run against an 8-10 man line, and yet those are the plays roman continues to call or kap switches to...and they don't work. Back to initial reasoning, it then sets up all the different types of O plays that NC so beautifully laid out. It happens tho, only after we get the perpetual 8-10 men off the dam LOS. And then once backed off , go back and look at plays NC enumerated. I won't restate, because he had 95% of them, with wrinkles off each one.

Another well made point is that now, our playcalling is so predictable, that half the webzone knows the play before it happens...and don't think the opponents D didn't figure them out also. What I can't get is how we ended up looking like the Girl Scouts on our O play calls. If this isn't reason to fire roman, nothing is. It is unthinkable that a squad with not just playoff talent as well as SB talent has become so mired in roman's ( and JH's ) incredibly pizz poor play calls.. If anybody on the WZ knows which play is coming, we are DOA. And that, I believe , is where we are. JH had the balz to fire alex who was doing excellently. He replaced him with an inexperienced kid with way more talent and NO experience. Since then Kap has backslid, and I believe a very large part of that is directly due to roman, who has single handedly, destroyed our Offense. C'mon, Coach, do your job. You fired alex for doing a good job, now fire roman for doing a bad job. Save our team. Fire roman and call your own O calls. What? you really think you could call a worse game than roman? My gosh man, look at our W/L record and then go review the SEA, INDY, Panthers games, and if you don't see a bucket of horse pukey every time a play is called, well then you aren't half the coach 99% of us think you are. If you think it is gentlemanly to keep a loser like roman on board, bubba, you need to recalibrate your values...esp about the 49ers OC and his total, futile failure to do his job. We are on the brink of getting eliminated from even making the playoffs and you keep a guaranteed loser on board. Why.? Merciful heavens why, JH?

Who in the world ever would have thot at this point in the season we are about to be eliminated from even making the playoffs, when most everyone had us in the SB again, only to win it this time? That Jim Harbaugh, is what you have gotten by keeping a bona fide loser on as OC. If you don't want to completely cut ties with roman, keep him on til end of season as a scout for the upcoming opponent. But for goodness sakes, man, get him out of the OC field box, off the field and keep him away from our team...last I checked, Coach, it WAS your team too. Hey, maybe we were all wrong and you aren't the coach we thot you were. Firing roman would sure make most fans feel a whole lot better. Better we lose with you calling plays than roman. He has his head in the sand and apparently isn't paying attn. to the majority of his plays that continue to fail, one after another. I don't know what the bond is with you and roman, but cut it.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Nov 16, 2013 at 11:23 PM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Our QB and OC have proved beyond reasonable doubt that kap cannot complete a 5 or 7 step drop pass (greater than 3 seconds) against elite teams with the BIG RUSH. We didn't against all the last 3 elite teams we played. There is only one way for a "one or two read QB" to complete a pass against the big rush, of elite teams. And that is to throw the ball in under 3 seconds. That means each and every pass play must be a 1 to 3 stepper, under 3 seconds, and both TE and WRs must be looking for the ball the moment they leave the LOS. If we do that, our QB who cannot read progressions past 2...or 3, will have to snap it and sling it. This is so simple it is ridiculous. Yet we have the amazing roman, calling 5-7 step plays that get blown up as kap is run to ground, sacked or hit..Completions for a kid who isn't good at reading Ds nor is he accurate, nor does he have a delicate touch pass....The answer there is to have him practice quick hitters all week long (too late already for saints), to the WR,either slot or WR split wide, or the TEs..or to Hunter of frank or LMJ. But don't give kap more than 2 targets up close because he has to do this bang, bang, bang and gone. Do this and we may get the opponents D to back off the LOS when we can try intermediate, 20 yd passes occasionally, and with luck, open up some holes for Frank, who has trouble running into a 10 man box.

If we don't do this we lose. Pure and simple. Also, kick roman off the team and let our HC be his own OC. Keeping roman will kill our shot at the playoffs....and with this talented team, that is inexcusable. C'mon Coach, fire roman before he pulls your team down with him. Oh, I forgot. Roman is a college coach and all you have to do there is win 10 games and you get to keep your job...well roman, this is the NFL...as in Not For Long...and that is you bubba. Adios.

Seattle's an elite team? OMG THANK YOU lol
this plan might work for about one driver and then defenses would adjust
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Unfortunately, the defense would react in an opposite manner if this were our gameplan. If we are ONLY hitting them with quick passes and 1-3 step drops, that gives the defense all the more reason to play up close, which increases their likelihood of stopping both short passes and the run -- then we'd be really screwed. Aside from awful teams like the Jaguars or Raiders, I don't know any professional defense that would back off the line of scrimmage because of a short passing game.

It would be an intermediate/deep threat that relieves the tension of a defense that wants to stacks the box and/or plays tight to the LOS. That said, we absolutely cannot be one-dimensional. There is too much film out there and teams nowadays are too smart to get beat by one thing and, unfortunately, while your solution is logical, it is too simple for the professional game.

In my opinion, the only answer to our deficiencies against quality, playoff-caliber opponents, is balance. As bad as we are at 5-7 step drop progressions, if we do not get better, we will not win. Period. Ridding our offense of it will only make things worse, because the easiest thing to defeat in the monster that is the film-driven NFL is predictability.

Agree with that take. 3 step drops are nice but coverage adapts, and defensive line play adapts trying to swat the pass. Kap made a few 3 steppers vs CAR. Ham, Boldin, VD all had quick short catches in the first half. But yes, mix it up within the passing game. OL has to step up its pass protection against good QB pressuring DLs for those deeper drops. Deep drops are the only way VD gets open intermediate to deep.
ponchdemindamouf
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Lifelong9er and Dtg had it right. The 2-3 second pass, or 1-3 stepper if you will, is needed to get 8,9, 10 guys off the LOS. If kap completes a handful of 6-8 yarders, watch the D adjust and some back off the LOS, thus opening holes for frank. It is darn near impossible to run against an 8-10 man line, and yet those are the plays roman continues to call or kap switches to...and they don't work. Back to initial reasoning, it then sets up all the different types of O plays that NC so beautifully laid out. It happens tho, only after we get the perpetual 8-10 men off the dam LOS. And then once backed off , go back and look at plays NC enumerated. I won't restate, because he had 95% of them, with wrinkles off each one.

Can you please explain why would defenses back off the LOS if all we do is short quick 2-3 seconds passes? A stupid defense would do that against quick passes, if they back off the LOS, that means they are leaving the short quick passes uncovered. Im sure no defense in the NFL will do that. The defense's job is to STOP the offense not GIVE them what they want.
The only way you'll back people off the LOS is to attack them vertically and with intermediate passes. Unfortunately, we don't have the personnel for the vertical game. That's why we see a lot of 8-9 man in the box, because no team is afraid of our WRs and the vertical game.
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Lifelong9er and Dtg had it right. The 2-3 second pass, or 1-3 stepper if you will, is needed to get 8,9, 10 guys off the LOS. If kap completes a handful of 6-8 yarders, watch the D adjust and some back off the LOS, thus opening holes for frank. It is darn near impossible to run against an 8-10 man line, and yet those are the plays roman continues to call or kap switches to...and they don't work. Back to initial reasoning, it then sets up all the different types of O plays that NC so beautifully laid out. It happens tho, only after we get the perpetual 8-10 men off the dam LOS. And then once backed off , go back and look at plays NC enumerated. I won't restate, because he had 95% of them, with wrinkles off each one.

Can you please explain why would defenses back off the LOS if all we do is short quick 2-3 seconds passes? A stupid defense would do that against quick passes, if they back off the LOS, that means they are leaving the short quick passes uncovered. Im sure no defense in the NFL will do that. The defense's job is to STOP the offense not GIVE them what they want.
The only way you'll back people off the LOS is to attack them vertically and with intermediate passes. Unfortunately, we don't have the personnel for the vertical game. That's why we see a lot of 8-9 man in the box, because no team is afraid of our WRs and the vertical game.

I think what pas is saying is that right now, DC's don't prepare at ALL for quick slants, crossing patterns, post patterns, TE's dropping down in a soft zone, swing passes to the RB, RB's lining up out of the Q and then flaring out behind the LB's for short quick, passes, etc. In short, the diversity of the play calling would force the defense to defend the entire field AND back the LBers & S's off the LOS more b/c right now, defenses are not only JUST defending the box, they are stacked up in it (LBers are lining up right behind the DL), crowding it and playing down hill. If quick slants, crossing routes, swing passes, McDonald exploiting the short/intermediate zone, many of these plays will go for BIG gains b/c of how close to the LOS the defenses are currently playing us. Ironically, the short passing game could back up the defense and open up our playbook.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
this plan might work for about one driver and then defenses would adjust

Making them adjust is the point. If they can just stay in the game plan and be happy...we won't be.
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Can you please explain why would defenses back off the LOS if all we do is short quick 2-3 seconds passes? A stupid defense would do that against quick passes, if they back off the LOS, that means they are leaving the short quick passes uncovered. Im sure no defense in the NFL will do that. The defense's job is to STOP the offense not GIVE them what they want.
The only way you'll back people off the LOS is to attack them vertically and with intermediate passes. Unfortunately, we don't have the personnel for the vertical game. That's why we see a lot of 8-9 man in the box, because no team is afraid of our WRs and the vertical game.

That's a good question! I had thought (in the past) if they are playing up close the short game is dead...QB has to hold the ball. But in watching Denver highlights this morning commentators pointed out that when the DBs play off the line the medium to long pass routes open up. No jamming off the LOS means the WR has the advantage of knowing where the ball is going and getting there ahead of the DB.

Ideally, the short game uses motion, picks, and other devices to get a short receiver open. If you jam the LOS it's more likely these tactics work...but if you are playing back, and keeping receivers in front, the DB can close quickly and make the sure tackle. It is also more likely the DB misses the tackle and creates a possibility for YAC if they are playing up as they can't hit the receiver until he touches the ball.

But if you have receivers who struggle to get off the LOS then the offensive coordinator needs to use the devices mentioned above. You don't just let the other team take your WRs out of the game!

Edit: you are wrong that we don't have the personnel for the vertical game. VD, James, Patton, and Manningham are all capable of going deep...as is Boldin. You don't need 4.2 speed to be a vertical receiver.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Nov 17, 2013 at 7:50 AM ]
Originally posted by xela510:
I wouldnt, DangeRuss has a way of making big plays.

Silliest nickname ever
We should just forfeit. Seattle is undeniably the champ. Pete Carol is a HOF coach and Richard Sherman makes Deion Sanders look like Ahmad Plummer. I just wish I could fast forward 10 years so I don't have to watch Russell Wilson slowly make people forget about Montana.
C'mon, 4lyphe, read NC's explanation of what I wrote. The 2-3 second passes, or 1-3 steppers, are the START of getting the box 8 or 10 off the LOS. Then once off the LOS, the rest opens up. I wasn't saying the 2-3 step passes are what you throw all game long. That is just the way you back 10 guys off LOS. Please reread NC's simple explanation.

As for not having any of our receivers get off the LOS and thus get open, well, here's a novel thot. I am the first one to think of this. Instead of just having 2 targets in the pattern, have 5. We then would have a 250% greater chance of at least one guy getting open. The way roman has only 2 guys as targets has 1) been picked up by all 31 opposing Ds, and 2) proven that a good part of the time we CAN'T get either of 2 targets off the LOS. Is there anybody else in the NFL in recent memory who just uses a two target system? Not to my recollection. But nope, thru trickery and whatever, roman madly schemes trick plays to get 2 (TWO) receivers open. Besides being stupid that is just plain dumb. The more receivers (WRs, TEs, RBs) in the pattern, the greater chance of finding at least one guy open. OK, I get it, that kap seems unable to go thru a progression of more than 2...or occasionally 3. But make those routes closer, shorter and maybe, just maybe, kap can learn to spot someone open if everybody is just 6-8 yds away. A second or even better idea is to drill kap with going thru progressions, altho all up close. How hard can that be? Yet brain fart roman wouldn't do that. WHY? Because he wants to run brilliant plays, all thot up by him, called by him... and the only one he impresses is himself. Having an OC who thinks up cute trick plays while Rome burns( or the 49ers lose themselves out of the playoffs) is a recipe for disaster. Incidentally, the crack about being the first one to think of having multiple receivers to throw to is tongue in cheek. 31 other NFL teams use that tactic. The fact that we don't is just flat unexplainable, stupid, and futile.

It is possible Kap is just a one trick pony. But just as I said when alex was here, "Hey, get him a decent OL and at least a half decent OC, and THEN let's see what alex...(and now Kap can do)". The book has not yet been written on kap, because he has a stinker for an OC, who inspires no one....especially his Qb. So those calling for kap's head, remember alex. Once he got his good HC, JH, he became all he could be...a very capable QB...some might say a very good one. Well, kap got his HC, but he also got a doofus for an OC...and why in the world Coach Harbaugh has put up with roman's ineptitude is beyond me.

Dtg, yes we do have personnel for the long ball game. But we don't have an OL that gives Kap more than 3 seconds max (against elite teams, all with the BIG RUSH), and worse, kap folds under BIG RUSH pressure. Take off the pressure, say against the jags, Tampa Bay....all the weak sister teams, and hey, the long ball works just fine. Kap has plenty of time to throw the 5-7 step drop. But against the elites, there is no time, so even if we have the personnel, our QB doesn't have the time. So the issue against elite teams is "NO TIME", not "NO PERSONNEL" Wouldn't it be nice if we had an OC who recognizes a totally different game plan has to be used against the big rush teams? Sadly, we don't.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Nov 17, 2013 at 9:44 AM ]
CONTAIN SPROLES AND WATCH FOR


NOTHING BUT SCREENS.


Run n gun.Mostly run due to our WR situation. VD help would be huge.

WE GOT THIS!!!!
Originally posted by 9ers:

I would take Kaep in a shootout over Russel Wilson any day.

You're out of your gourd.