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The one and only one way to beat the Saints...and SEA.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Our QB and OC have proved beyond reasonable doubt that kap cannot complete a 5 or 7 step drop pass (greater than 3 seconds) against elite teams with the BIG RUSH. We didn't against all the last 3 elite teams we played. There is only one way for a "one or two read QB" to complete a pass against the big rush, of elite teams. And that is to throw the ball in under 3 seconds. That means each and every pass play must be a 1 to 3 stepper, under 3 seconds, and both TE and WRs must be looking for the ball the moment they leave the LOS. If we do that, our QB who cannot read progressions past 2...or 3, will have to snap it and sling it. This is so simple it is ridiculous. Yet we have the amazing roman, calling 5-7 step plays that get blown up as kap is run to ground, sacked or hit..Completions for a kid who isn't good at reading Ds nor is he accurate, nor does he have a delicate touch pass....The answer there is to have him practice quick hitters all week long (too late already for saints), to the WR,either slot or WR split wide, or the TEs..or to Hunter of frank or LMJ. But don't give kap more than 2 targets up close because he has to do this bang, bang, bang and gone. Do this and we may get the opponents D to back off the LOS when we can try intermediate, 20 yd passes occasionally, and with luck, open up some holes for Frank, who has trouble running into a 10 man box.

If we don't do this we lose. Pure and simple. Also, kick roman off the team and let our HC be his own OC. Keeping roman will kill our shot at the playoffs....and with this talented team, that is inexcusable. C'mon Coach, fire roman before he pulls your team down with him. Oh, I forgot. Roman is a college coach and all you have to do there is win 10 games and you get to keep your job...well roman, this is the NFL...as in Not For Long...and that is you bubba. Adios.

In my opinion, Kaepernick is having similar problems that Alex is having at the start of his career. Since Kaepernick is not used to taking snaps under center, his dropbacks are long and slow, he gets the ball out too late, rarely does the ball come out on a 3 step drop. He also is impatient and missing a lot of open receivers because he locks onto his primary target. Basically, he doesn't do any favors for his line when they are pass blocking. The coaching staff has tried to rely on Kaepernick's cerebral abilities instead of his physical talent. It's almost as if they are expecting to go through hard times in order to train him and make him into the QB that they want him to be instead of what he really is.

All defenses have to do is double cover the primary target, be it Vernon or Boldin. But it seems like most secondaries can cover Boldin in single coverage, which is really quite sad for a #1 receiver. He obviously wasn't intended to be the number one guy but still...They can also keep their safeties up near the line to help stop the rush because there are no consistent deep threats over the top. Having the safeties near the line also makes it difficult to get an effective short passing game. In short, because of Kaepernick limitations, the current Niners offense is easy to defend for top defenses.
Originally posted by Psinex:
The coaching staff has tried to rely on Kaepernick's cerebral abilities instead of his physical talent.

This much is certainly untrue IF this AR1 / AR2 business is as prominent as some claim it to be.
Originally posted by Psinex:
But it seems like most secondaries can cover Boldin in single coverage, which is really quite sad for a #1 receiver.

See, I don't get this part. Boldin was SLAYING it weeks ago. He was making fantastic grabs and everyone was creaming their pants. Now all of the sudden, he can't do jack? Boldin is the same guy he was weeks ago... if he has single coverage? He IS open. Have we learned nothing from what he can do?
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Psinex:
But it seems like most secondaries can cover Boldin in single coverage, which is really quite sad for a #1 receiver.

See, I don't get this part. Boldin was SLAYING it weeks ago. He was making fantastic grabs and everyone was creaming their pants. Now all of the sudden, he can't do jack? Boldin is the same guy he was weeks ago... if he has single coverage? He IS open. Have we learned nothing from what he can do?

Slaying it against who, exactly? He's had a solid year, but against Seattle he caught one pass. He can make some amazing catches, but against the top secondaries, we can't rely on him for more than a few clutch catches. The offense needs plays to eat up chunks of yards, the way Tampa Bay did against Seattle with Mike James and St. Louis did with Zac Stacy. Why did those two teams have so much success running the ball against the Seahawks, while the Niners couldn't move the ball downfield?
Originally posted by ram29jackson:
all that will mean is he is one dimensional in the first place. If that's all SF did ,they will be adjusted to quickly and another plan is foiled. You try to play to a players strengths but its not that simple or so it seems

Doubt that was the point being made. You don't go with short, quick hits to abandon longer routes, but to open them up. If they mixed it up more and were able to establish the passing game right out of the shoot, Gore would still be very effective (even more than he is) and the vertical game would open up. Right now good defenses are trying to jam receivers and stop them from getting into their longer routes, blitzing to limit CK's time, while CK is trying to wait for them to break open. The smart play is to go with the defense and say...OK, we'll kill you with five to eight yard plays until you start respecting our short game. Smith has been doing this very effectively over the past two years, here and in KC. CK has the ability to do this if Roman manages to call the right plays.

To me, it all goes back to the Baltimore game two years ago when the Balt defense totally confused the 9ers and Smith was almost killed trying to figure out what the bleep they were doing. Now all teams know the niners have a young QB and if they play multiple defensive sets, and move out in different blitz/cover packages from those sets, the 9ers will become frustrated.

Defenses have also caught on to Harbaugh's terrible notion that putting all eleven players inside the tackles is a good idea... The defense can collapse on the pocket from everywhere, tackle the receivers before they can get out and jam up the whole ball of wax...drives me crazy! I'm sorry, the niner offensive line is not so great that they can just bull doze down the field in this formation. VD is the only receiver strong enough to get off the line of scrimmage in these sets.

OK...enough of a rant for this morning! Did I mention I miss the WCO?
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by ram29jackson:
all that will mean is he is one dimensional in the first place. If that's all SF did ,they will be adjusted to quickly and another plan is foiled. You try to play to a players strengths but its not that simple or so it seems

Doubt that was the point being made. You don't go with short, quick hits to abandon longer routes, but to open them up. If they mixed it up more and were able to establish the passing game right out of the shoot, Gore would still be very effective (even more than he is) and the vertical game would open up. Right now good defenses are trying to jam receivers and stop them from getting into their longer routes, blitzing to limit CK's time, while CK is trying to wait for them to break open. The smart play is to go with the defense and say...OK, we'll kill you with five to eight yard plays until you start respecting our short game. Smith has been doing this very effectively over the past two years, here and in KC. CK has the ability to do this if Roman manages to call the right plays.

To me, it all goes back to the Baltimore game two years ago when the Balt defense totally confused the 9ers and Smith was almost killed trying to figure out what the bleep they were doing. Now all teams know the niners have a young QB and if they play multiple defensive sets, and move out in different blitz/cover packages from those sets, the 9ers will become frustrated.

Defenses have also caught on to Harbaugh's terrible notion that putting all eleven players inside the tackles is a good idea... The defense can collapse on the pocket from everywhere, tackle the receivers before they can get out and jam up the whole ball of wax...drives me crazy! I'm sorry, the niner offensive line is not so great that they can just bull doze down the field in this formation. VD is the only receiver strong enough to get off the line of scrimmage in these sets.

OK...enough of a rant for this morning! Did I mention I miss the WCO?

In reference to the Baltimore game in which Smith was playing, I remember very clearly when Adam Snyder went down and Chilo Rachal was lined up against Terrell Suggs, Smith had no chance to stand in the pocket for more than 2 seconds. The right side of the line might as well have been on the sideline because they weren't blocking anything except the stadium lights.

Speaking of WCO, the one play I remember seeing was the slant pass that Kaepernick threw out of the end zone to Manningham for the critical 1st down. It was a thing of beauty. I don't know why we don't just run that play like 10 times a game.
We need to sign Brett Favre and TO to win on Sunday.
Originally posted by Psinex:
In reference to the Baltimore game in which Smith was playing, I remember very clearly when Adam Snyder went down and Chilo Rachal was lined up against Terrell Suggs, Smith had no chance to stand in the pocket for more than 2 seconds. The right side of the line might as well have been on the sideline because they weren't blocking anything except the stadium lights.

Speaking of WCO, the one play I remember seeing was the slant pass that Kaepernick threw out of the end zone to Manningham for the critical 1st down. It was a thing of beauty. I don't know why we don't just run that play like 10 times a game.
I thought the same thing. And then not another play like that? You get success and you stop? Should have thrown several slants and screens to slow down the pass rush. One big slant or screen pass and the pass rush slows down. I agree with several posters, this is NOT the WCO we were looking for.

I still think Kaepernick is a very good QB, but no QB can have success when his OC is calling crap plays that feeds right into what the opposing defenses strength is, AND his offensive line can not pass block for more than 2 seconds!
the coles notes version: score more points than them
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Our QB and OC have proved beyond reasonable doubt that kap cannot complete a 5 or 7 step drop pass (greater than 3 seconds) against elite teams with the BIG RUSH. We didn't against all the last 3 elite teams we played. There is only one way for a "one or two read QB" to complete a pass against the big rush, of elite teams. And that is to throw the ball in under 3 seconds. That means each and every pass play must be a 1 to 3 stepper, under 3 seconds, and both TE and WRs must be looking for the ball the moment they leave the LOS. If we do that, our QB who cannot read progressions past 2...or 3, will have to snap it and sling it. This is so simple it is ridiculous. Yet we have the amazing roman, calling 5-7 step plays that get blown up as kap is run to ground, sacked or hit..Completions for a kid who isn't good at reading Ds nor is he accurate, nor does he have a delicate touch pass....The answer there is to have him practice quick hitters all week long (too late already for saints), to the WR,either slot or WR split wide, or the TEs..or to Hunter of frank or LMJ. But don't give kap more than 2 targets up close because he has to do this bang, bang, bang and gone. Do this and we may get the opponents D to back off the LOS when we can try intermediate, 20 yd passes occasionally, and with luck, open up some holes for Frank, who has trouble running into a 10 man box.

If we don't do this we lose. Pure and simple. Also, kick roman off the team and let our HC be his own OC. Keeping roman will kill our shot at the playoffs....and with this talented team, that is inexcusable. C'mon Coach, fire roman before he pulls your team down with him. Oh, I forgot. Roman is a college coach and all you have to do there is win 10 games and you get to keep your job...well roman, this is the NFL...as in Not For Long...and that is you bubba. Adios.

Unfortunately, the defense would react in an opposite manner if this were our gameplan. If we are ONLY hitting them with quick passes and 1-3 step drops, that gives the defense all the more reason to play up close, which increases their likelihood of stopping both short passes and the run -- then we'd be really screwed. Aside from awful teams like the Jaguars or Raiders, I don't know any professional defense that would back off the line of scrimmage because of a short passing game.

It would be an intermediate/deep threat that relieves the tension of a defense that wants to stacks the box and/or plays tight to the LOS. That said, we absolutely cannot be one-dimensional. There is too much film out there and teams nowadays are too smart to get beat by one thing and, unfortunately, while your solution is logical, it is too simple for the professional game.

In my opinion, the only answer to our deficiencies against quality, playoff-caliber opponents, is balance. As bad as we are at 5-7 step drop progressions, if we do not get better, we will not win. Period. Ridding our offense of it will only make things worse, because the easiest thing to defeat in the monster that is the film-driven NFL is predictability.
[ Edited by Imfasterthanur on Nov 16, 2013 at 8:30 AM ]
Funny enough, the tough games (teams with good DC's and good front 7's and press CB's) are the ones where Roman DOES need to go down in the WCO basement and watch some film...quick slants, crossing patterns, quick outs, swing passes to the RB, flare outs by the RB's and FB's, use of the TE's in the short, soft zones in the middle of the field and even open up an ACTUAL post pattern if the WR is isolated. Most of all, while most of the AR passing plays ARE designed to get the ball out under 3 seconds, HaRoMan need to scheme the other WR's not named Boldin/VD to back the defense off and spread the ball around...use the entire field. Go back to CK taking the majority of the snaps under C as well. Add in many many more pro-style passing plays where CK is allowed to scan for the best receiving option. Progression reads are key if the AR is taken away (and they usually are against good DC's/personnel). Also, think outside the box on a few plays...DC's are all OVER our basic passing plays...way too many telegraphed formations; super predictive. So actually RUN a WR reverse. Then fake it. Run it again but make it a swing pass. Stuff like that...make the defense defend the entire field AND keep them on their heels and not playing down hill in attack-mode. This is not hard for a quality offensive coaching staff. They should be able to ID weakness in the Saints D and take advantage of them (scheme).
Agree w/most here.

1). Variety - keep mixing it up like the Walsh days. Some 3 step drops, some 5 step drops, slants, screens, runs.

Even a fake screen would be an improvement!

2). Harbs would NEVER fire Roman. He doesn't throw anyone under the bus - he hasn't done it once since he's been here. He even spoke highly of AJ just before we sent him packing.

3). IMO, this is a "Statement Game" for us. Frankly, more of a Statement Game for our coaching staff.

Last week, w/2 weeks to plan for the game and the results were pathetic. These guys, coaches, have to know they FAILED! It's on their shoulders to have a better plan going against a top tier team like the Saints.

4). IMO, it's not over completely if we lose. More so on how we lose. No loss is good but - If we get blown out I think it's time for Trent to step in and let him fire Roman.
Seattle gets way too much love around here. It's disgusting, really. We've lost two games at their house. One coming off a big win in NE and another in a year where its clear our offense is in shambles. Get at me when they beat us at home and have a deep playoff run in back to back seasons. As it stand, they are squeaking by mediocre teams with a little luck. So please, get off their nuts.
Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:
Don't forget to pound the rock to keep Brees off the field. Churn that clock. T.O.P. and red-zone conversions win the game, IMO.

This. Keep him off the field and make them one dementional. Control the the clock and score so they have all the pressure on them
If thats the ONLY way to beat the 'Aints and Seacawks then they both should be 0-9..