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Jon Baldwin - Another Guy Getting The Blame

Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Unless Baldwin significantly improves his short area burst, he will not be able to consistently create separation on his routes. Last season, nearly all his targets were from running routes that were, more or less, vertical. When he makes a cut, he loses a lot of speed and the CB can close in. I don't know if this is because he's such a big guy, or that he isn't strong in his lower body when it comes to planting and cutting, but he needs to work on that to salvage his career.


If he doesn't improve in this area, he will be relegated to a player that just tries to out jump CBs for 50/50 balls. Which is a skill and talent in itself that any offense can use, but then the playcalls have to give him a chance. He was given several jump balls last season and failed to come down with any of them for various reasons. The one time he actually got separation and had a good chance to catch the ball (go route), the Saints CB grabbed Baldwin's jersey and pulled him back (incomplete, no PI called).

That's a very good analysis. He's the counter to Johnson who is lightning quick off the line and has tons of "shake" to him. With his size, I wonder if he is best served ala Boldin used to block out defenders (like we saw in your film review)...I'm wondering if slimming down might help with his breaks/cuts as well. He certainly has the straight-line speed but like you said, needs more burst off the LOS...more shake to his routes as well.

Agreed. He definitely needs more shake to his game. That quick twitch characteristic we hear about when talking about WRs. Although I'm afraid that it's just one of those qualities that a WR either has or doesn't have at this stage in their career. I hope the WR coaches (ugh) focus on his short area quickness. He already has something you can't teach, size and jumping ability.

Absolutely...don't believe or know enough if this is something that can be taught. That said, I have hope for him b/c I don't believe Boldin or Crabtree really have that either; that explosion at the LOS but they are amazing once they get off the LOS. Stevie Johnson is going to bring that ability you and I talked about when Manningham was healthy. With the beef out wide in Boldin and Crabree and VD's straight-line speed and the short-area burst of Johnson inside, it should give defenses fits and force them to cover 3 very different ways.
  • Giedi
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  • Posts: 2,935
Originally posted by thl408:
Unless Baldwin significantly improves his short area burst, he will not be able to consistently create separation on his routes. Last season, nearly all his targets were from running routes that were, more or less, vertical. When he makes a cut, he loses a lot of speed and the CB can close in. I don't know if this is because he's such a big guy, or that he isn't strong in his lower body when it comes to planting and cutting, but he needs to work on that to salvage his career.


If he doesn't improve in this area, he will be relegated to a player that just tries to out jump CBs for 50/50 balls. Which is a skill and talent in itself that any offense can use, but then the playcalls have to give him a chance. He was given several jump balls last season and failed to come down with any of them for various reasons. The one time he actually got separation and had a good chance to catch the ball (go route), the Saints CB grabbed Baldwin's jersey and pulled him back (incomplete, no PI called).

Great insight. Maybe they try him at the H - back position or backup TE, backing up Vance and VD. I know Delanie survived for a long time playing that swiss army knife role. But I agree. If you look at Harbaugh's Stanford offenses, you had Ousu and Baldwin - guys with great short area quickness and good speed. Baldwin ' s current skill set just doesn't match up with this offense right now, unless they move him inside like Delanie.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by NCommand:
I like this take a lot. I wonder why we rarely run WR's out of the slot (where VD and McDonald line up). There is probably a lot you can do to create mismatches with Baldwin there. Given that he's an excellent blocker as well, he could even stay in like a TE, chip-block, a run a delayed route (slant, go, curl, etc.) and get him out in space with a full head of steam in the open field.

One reason. Is this is still a power run offense, and a tight end centered offense. The WR's just don't seem to play as big a role in this offense as in - say - a pass first green bay offense. Harbaugh employs a lot of deception to get the most out of his WR'S and TE's. Most of his high round draft capital goes to defense. He makes up for lesser talent on offense with - in my opinion - lots of deception to get his slow WR's and bigger TE's in better post up positions regarding the passing game.

I don't really think this changes going forward. We have Lattimore and Hyde coming online with Martin blocking for them. Yes we have Ellington, Patton, Quan, and Crabs - but I don't see Harbaugh going away from brutalizing defenses. We just have younger and bigger players doing it now vs last year.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
It is funny that roman has kap doing a 1,2,3 read and go, when the 2 best QBs, brady and peyton, frequently finish the game with 8 different guys catching passes. Not saying we want kap to be peyton nor brady. Just kap will do. But he needs to be able to find at least 5 different guys with ease. If that means scrambling, ok. It would sure help if he got a little bit of time from the OL, but our OL is great at run blocking, NOT passblocking. A good way around that is quick 1-3 step passes, WCO if you prefer, but it would get more guys involved in the passing game...and would move [...]

We are going to know a lot about who has been at fault in the failed passing game real quick once the season opens up. All else is past history. We definitely have the talent, but do we have the coaching? Or is the QB the problem. IMO, early on we will all know, for it will be painfully obvious. I would love to hear that roman is on the bubble. Nah, that isn't Coach's manner. It would more likely go down that JH just starts calling plays. He knows this game as a QB for 14 yrs and successful coach at 3 different stops and levels. C'mon Coach, show us what you can do.
PaseoDoc, I think you will be very happy with the passing offense this year. We do have more weapons for Kaepernick. Teams that are going to play us 8 men in the box, like seadderall, will pay for playing that defense. Where Ellington and Stevie come in is depth. We have much more depth than we have ever had since Harbaugh has been coach. I'm still disappointed we could not get a pure burner like a Watkins or a Tavaun Austin, but that might come next year as Colin matures and is able to take advantage of his 3rd and 4th options. My ideal WR set is three receivers that have Olympic speed, and two gigantic 6"7' ball control receivers that can block well and jump over the empire state building. But considering what we have on our roster. I'm still pretty happy about it.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I like this take a lot. I wonder why we rarely run WR's out of the slot (where VD and McDonald line up). There is probably a lot you can do to create mismatches with Baldwin there. Given that he's an excellent blocker as well, he could even stay in like a TE, chip-block, a run a delayed route (slant, go, curl, etc.) and get him out in space with a full head of steam in the open field.

One reason. Is this is still a power run offense, and a tight end centered offense. The WR's just don't seem to play as big a role in this offense as in - say - a pass first green bay offense. Harbaugh employs a lot of deception to get the most out of his WR'S and TE's. Most of his high round draft capital goes to defense. He makes up for lesser talent on offense with - in my opinion - lots of deception to get his slow WR's and bigger TE's in better post up positions regarding the passing game.

I don't really think this changes going forward. We have Lattimore and Hyde coming online with Martin blocking for them. Yes we have Ellington, Patton, Quan, and Crabs - but I don't see Harbaugh going away from brutalizing defenses. We just have younger and bigger players doing it now vs last year.

I could not agree more!
  • Phil
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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by thl408:
Unless Baldwin significantly improves his short area burst, he will not be able to consistently create separation on his routes. Last season, nearly all his targets were from running routes that were, more or less, vertical. When he makes a cut, he loses a lot of speed and the CB can close in. I don't know if this is because he's such a big guy, or that he isn't strong in his lower body when it comes to planting and cutting, but he needs to work on that to salvage his career.


If he doesn't improve in this area, he will be relegated to a player that just tries to out jump CBs for 50/50 balls. Which is a skill and talent in itself that any offense can use, but then the playcalls have to give him a chance. He was given several jump balls last season and failed to come down with any of them for various reasons. The one time he actually got separation and had a good chance to catch the ball (go route), the Saints CB grabbed Baldwin's jersey and pulled him back (incomplete, no PI called).

Great insight. Maybe they try him at the H - back position or backup TE, backing up Vance and VD. I know Delanie survived for a long time playing that swiss army knife role. But I agree. If you look at Harbaugh's Stanford offenses, you had Ousu and Baldwin - guys with great short area quickness and good speed. [b]Baldwin ' s current skill set just doesn't match up with this offense right now[/b] unless they move him inside like Delanie.

Didnt match up with KC either. He's just not panning out in the NFL. It happens.