There are 113 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Progressions

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i dont understand why dilfer is considered a qb genius by the media, he was mediocre at best and was one of the least important pieces of a superbowl team ever.

He knows his stuff. I'm sure he was an all-star during film sessions and team meetings. He just didn't have the physical tools or the calm under pressure to be a good QB. He is very qualified to evaluate QB play. But like Kap said, how can make a broad generalization about his ability to work through progressions when Trent doesn't even know what the progression is on a given play?

Greg Cossel admitted that Dilfer was right. He also watches a lot of film and he seems to be unbiased in his criticism, positive or negative.
This is a really good article on the topic of this post.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/11/13/three-issues-with-the-49ers-passing-game/
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i dont understand why dilfer is considered a qb genius by the media, he was mediocre at best and was one of the least important pieces of a superbowl team ever.

By this logic, all the best players should be the best coaches.

you hit it right on the head. look at our own coach, sure he was the 1995 afc offensive player of the year, but other than that, what exactly did he ever accomplish as a qb? not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. reality is most of the best coaches were very average players or didnt even make it to the highest level of their given sport. i hate it when fans attack a analyst's playing career in an attempt to diminish the value of their analysis. its quite possible they know exactly whats going on but were also never talented enough themselves to implement it into their own game, but they still can identify a problem while watching film.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i dont understand why dilfer is considered a qb genius by the media, he was mediocre at best and was one of the least important pieces of a superbowl team ever.

He knows his stuff. I'm sure he was an all-star during film sessions and team meetings. He just didn't have the physical tools or the calm under pressure to be a good QB. He is very qualified to evaluate QB play. But like Kap said, how can make a broad generalization about his ability to work through progressions when Trent doesn't even know what the progression is on a given play?

Greg Cossel admitted that Dilfer was right. He also watches a lot of film and he seems to be unbiased in his criticism, positive or negative.

Cossel isnt the brightest bulb in the box either. Fans seem to forget that if these media "experts" were truly experts... they would still be employed. They just spout out their opinions on the subject, they dont know any more than what the TV shows, they arent in the huddle, they dont know the playbook, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Blame has to reside with Harbaugh & Roman first, then Kaep. Why Roman stops running Frank in second halves is the most asinine thing Ive ever seen, ranks up their with Raye's handling of this offense. The play caller should be calling plays with quick reads not routes 10+ yards when going against one of the best front sevens in the NFL, that all coaches. The only thing Kaep can do is to audible out of a call, but lets remember he is still relatively young in terms of playing time and usually a good soldier, he may not be sure enough to overide a call from the coach. Its obvious Roman wants to force the deep passes because thats where Kap is comfortable, but game situations need to be taken into account, and they just arent under Roman.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i dont understand why dilfer is considered a qb genius by the media, he was mediocre at best and was one of the least important pieces of a superbowl team ever.

By this logic, all the best players should be the best coaches.

you hit it right on the head. look at our own coach, sure he was the 1995 afc offensive player of the year, but other than that, what exactly did he ever accomplish as a qb? not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. reality is most of the best coaches were very average players or didnt even make it to the highest level of their given sport. i hate it when fans attack a analyst's playing career in an attempt to diminish the value of their analysis. its quite possible they know exactly whats going on but were also never talented enough themselves to implement it into their own game, but they still can identify a problem while watching film.

This!
Why does everyone care so much about Dilfer's comments? Thats what he does. He is a media guy. And he might be right. Kap needs to prove him wrong in NO. Do you guys all want every media member to constantly kiss Kap's ass? And Kap was mad because he has been hearing a lot of negative stuff lately. And he has been playing like s**t and he knows it. What's he supposed to say? Yes, I don't go through my progressions? He doesn't take criticism well, thats why he favorites strangers' tweets.

And, just cause someone sucks at playing QB that doesn't mean that can't be a good analyst or coach. Actually, most coaches and analyst did suck at QB. Not saying Dilfer is a good analyst, but I think he does know what he is talking about. Dude played in the NFL for a long time.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Why does everyone care so much about Dilfer's comments? Thats what he does. He is a media guy. And he might be right. Kap needs to prove him wrong in NO. Do you guys all want every media member to constantly kiss Kap's ass? And Kap was mad because he has been hearing a lot of negative stuff lately. And he has been playing like s**t and he knows it. What's he supposed to say? Yes, I don't go through my progressions? He doesn't take criticism well, thats why he favorites strangers' tweets.

And, just cause someone sucks at playing QB that doesn't mean that can't be a good analyst or coach. Actually, most coaches and analyst did suck at QB. Not saying Dilfer is a good analyst, but I think he does know what he is talking about. Dude played in the NFL for a long time.

its like if the little league coach criticizes your kids play, whether hes right or wrong your first reaction is to run down his list of credentials and ask what the f**k does he know? its typical fan behaviour.
Originally posted by SneakySniper:
Kaep is a one-read QB.
Kaep cannot go through his progressions.
Kaep is remedial.

All this, at least according to Trent Dilfer, whom I must mention is one of the greatest QBs of all time!

In all seriousness, I am glad Trent D***o made these statements because of Kaep's response to them...

"Does he even know what my progressions are?"

Now, Kaep usually responds to criticism by admitting to poor execution or by just flat out saying he does not care what outside people think (which he also did). However, to me Kaep's response seemed like an indirect attack on the structure of the plays being run.

Is this just another response, with no meaning behind it? Or does this show that Kaep's unhappy with the plays being called?

I think it does.

Edit: Decency.

Maybe Kaep doesn't know what his progressions are and was hoping Dilfer could explain it to him.
The reason I don't like most media guys making comments like they are is that a guy will struggle for a game or two and they respond as if it is a season long issue. Some of these guys see one instance and they make claims of a struggle.

It isn't like Carolina has a question on defense either. Every team has had problems putting up points on the Panthers offensively. AZ got 22 on them but they had a bunch of turnovers. If I hear criticism of Kaep or the offense, I would rather it come from someone that really knows the Niners well. Cosell and Dilfer have a national audience to appeal to, I listened to Garcia the other day on the radio and he had some things to say, but he was very realistic about it and is closer to the situation.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Why does everyone care so much about Dilfer's comments? Thats what he does. He is a media guy. And he might be right. Kap needs to prove him wrong in NO. Do you guys all want every media member to constantly kiss Kap's ass? And Kap was mad because he has been hearing a lot of negative stuff lately. And he has been playing like s**t and he knows it. What's he supposed to say? Yes, I don't go through my progressions? He doesn't take criticism well, thats why he favorites strangers' tweets.

And, just cause someone sucks at playing QB that doesn't mean that can't be a good analyst or coach. Actually, most coaches and analyst did suck at QB. Not saying Dilfer is a good analyst, but I think he does know what he is talking about. Dude played in the NFL for a long time.

To me, Dilfer's comments were important because it brought to light an issue a lot of people have with Kaep. Now whether his progressions are really an issue is still unknown (personally, I do not think they are).

What I do know; however, is that Roman said all problems begin with him. This is the first time I have seen someone on the 49ers staff take responsibility, albeit only partially.
Yeah, that's the first time I've heard someone on staff do a mea culpa in front of the media instead of the usual passive aggressive paranoidspeak.

It's a way of owning it. We ask players to do it for behavior both on and off field. Coaches too. I think that's good?
Dilfer says Kaep's struggles are on his inability to go through his progressions.

Jerry Rice says Kaep's struggles are on the lack of receivers.

Hmm.
I don't understand all this "progression" talk? First one needs a view of the QB eyes for the duration of each play which doesnt' exist. Are some watching head movement? If he doesn't move his head, he isn't going through his progressions?

I think it is impossible to determine from tape if someone is going through their progressions. I think only the QB knows .... no one has view of the eyes going through the progression of any QB for a duration of any play.
[ Edited by OldJoe on Nov 15, 2013 at 2:31 PM ]
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,693
Originally posted by OldJoe:
I don't understand all this "progression" talk? First one needs a view of the QB eyes for the duration of each play which doesnt' exist. Are some watching head movement? If he doesn't move his head, he isn't going through his progressions?

I think it is impossible to determine from tape if someone is going through their progressions. I think only the QB knows .... no one has view of the eyes going through the progression of any QB for a duration of any play.

Unless both the reads are on the same side of the field, you can see it from the endzone camera which is available via NFL Rewind. The camera is positioned on one endzone so some quarters it's the front of the QB where you can see his eyes (sort of), some quarters it's the back of the QB's head. But you can see a QB's head rotate (yaw) side to side which suggests he is moving from read to read.
once kaep gets these bad games out of his system, he'll be in the hof