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Wow, Crabtree's not THAT important...is he?

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Its not just Crabtree.

Its also Delanie Walker.

Delaine posed a deep threat that McDonald can't duplicate. Down the road McDonald might develop into a very good TE, but he doesn't have the speed to challenge the way Walker did.

Kap was 19 of 35 on passes that traveled in the air more than 20 yards. That was the highest comp % in the NFL.

It isn't a coincidense that Walker caught 7 of those passes to lead the team and Crab was second with 4.

Great post marvin, once crabs is back, mario knocks some rust off we will be looking good again. We need to try and incorporate gore in recieving game more as well. Harbs n co will get the ship a sailing again
Goniners
Originally posted by thl408:
Kap is not a 1 read QB. Come on guys, he's not that dense. His problem is that he takes too long to move off a read when it is not open. Please allow me to explain the difference between a 1 read QB and a QB that is unable to quickly identify when a read is not open.

A one read QB will look to his pre-determined read once the ball is snapped. This read was determined pre-snap once the defense declared its alignment. If that read is not available, a one read QB will tuck/run, get sacked, or go immediately to his safety valve, if one is available. This is the thought process of a 1 read QB:
1. dropback
2. I was fooled by the defensive disguise, pre snap read is not open
3. Now what?
a. get sacked
b. run
c. throw it away
d. throw it to the safety valve

I do not consider the safety valve a read, as a QB doesn't have to read anything when throwing to his safety valve. He just throws it there when he decides that nothing is open.

This is the mindset of a non 1 read QB:
1. dropback
2. I was fooled by the defensive disguise, pre snap read is not open
3. Analyze defense
4. Now what?
a. move to second read
b. buy time by shuffling around pocket, move to second read
5. Second read not open, now what?
a. onto the 3rd read
b. saftey valve

The problem Kap has is moving from step 2 to step 3. He takes too long to determine that a read is not open. This is due to being unable to instinctively read a defense in 2 seconds. He is fooled by tricky coverage disguises. These are young QB deficiencies. Kap needs more game time reps, not film study, not practices at walk through speed, not hand holding by the coaches with play design that calls for AR (anointed receiver) plays. It's trial by fire with the coaches having to balance QB development with winning a football game.

Here is what may go through the mind of an elite QB:
1. dropback
2. I was fooled by the defensive disguise, pre snap read is not open
3. It's man coverage on the outside, zone underneath. (defense has been analyzed)
4. Throw to the route (route combination) that beats man coverage.

There is a seamless transition from step 2 to step 3 in the mind of Brees and Rodgers. There is a lag time in the mind of Kap and other unpolished, inexperienced QBs.

To take this back to Crabs, I severely underestimated how important Crabs loss was. I thought Kap could have the same success throwing to less talented WRs. Completely wrong. What was happening in 2012 was that Crabs was used as a crutch. Crabs is a damn good WR and could beat man coverage with consistency. This made locking on to Crabs not so bad of a play. Also, in 2012 the defenses were scared to death of Kap running so they were very disciplined in their rush lanes. This made it easy on the Oline to give Kap time.

As mentioned by many posters, the presence of Moss/DWalker opened up a lot of space due to their speed, and in Moss' case, reputation. That allowed Kap to lock onto Crabs and he never really developed the quick thinking he needs in order to be an analytical QB. When Kap has time, he can progress through his reads. When he doesn't have time, he isn't quick enough to get to his secondary reads in a timely manner.

This is a very fine analysis, but what I'm not seeing are throws to the safety valve. Are we running plays that don't have one? Your description of what goes through the mind of a one read QB is exactly what I'm seeing on Sundays - first option covered, and Kaep either gets sacked or throws it away. Sure, this may be a symptom of Kaep having difficulty in quickly assessing the defensive scheme (either pre-snap or post-snap) but if that is his flaw I would assume our coaches would recognize that and call more plays that are friendly to a young QB - screens, TE seams, slants.

The bottom line is that Kaep has talent. But if he consistently has trouble going through his progressions because he can't read defenses, we aren't going to win a championship any time soon. If this is his major flaw right now, I'd rather do with him what Seattle does with Wilson - have him scramble around, causing WRs to break off routes, which disrupts the defensive secondary scheme ... I mean, he either needs to learn how to play in a system, or we abandon the system and have him play three flags up out there.
On an optimistic note the loss of Crabs helped force Kap and Davis to build their chemistry
Baalke made a huge mistake not trading for Josh Gordon when we had the chance. Not having a legit deep threat has crumbled our passing game.
Originally posted by Rascal:
That depends on who is your QB, if is Kap then yes. The guy can only lock on to 1 or at most 2 guys.

I have said this before, if you are a secondary receiver with the 49ers, you have next to no future here.

The more we look at this the more at seems this is right. There's way to much indication that this is a very big issue. God, I hope Harbaugh is the QB genius we think he is. The focus on Kap's development may be the most important thing for us all to watch in these last seven games. Will signs of the franchise QB we thought he was becoming re-emerge?
Crank dat Crabtree.
Originally posted by midrdan:
Crabtree coming back will certainly help. He is a legitimate #1 receiver. But I agree with a lot of the posts about Kaep. He is either a one read and panic QB or the plays only call for one WR to actually run a route. Crabtree coming back won't help that situation - if he's the first read and he's covered, we're screwed. I would have thought that Crabtree's absence would have forced the staff to diversify the play calls but that hasn't happened. I also thought Kaep would take a step forward this year but that hasn't happened. Basically, nothing's happening.

Look at how our season ended last year. Three failed attempts to Crab with open receivers. This is an old story. It was masked last year by many other things like the success in the read option. Everyone is on to it this year. Seattle nailed it in the second game and the teams that have the talent to stop the run and bring pressure are all going to be fatal to us unless Kap gets through this hurdle in his development.
Originally posted by thl408:
Kap is not a 1 read QB. Come on guys, he's not that dense. His problem is that he takes too long to move off a read when it is not open. Please allow me to explain the difference between a 1 read QB and a QB that is unable to quickly identify when a read is not open.

A one read QB will look to his pre-determined read once the ball is snapped. This read was determined pre-snap once the defense declared its alignment. If that read is not available, a one read QB will tuck/run, get sacked, or go immediately to his safety valve, if one is available. This is the thought process of a 1 read QB:
1. dropback
2. I was fooled by the defensive disguise, pre snap read is not open
3. Now what?
a. get sacked
b. run
c. throw it away
d. throw it to the safety valve

I do not consider the safety valve a read, as a QB doesn't have to read anything when throwing to his safety valve. He just throws it there when he decides that nothing is open.

This is the mindset of a non 1 read QB:
1. dropback
2. I was fooled by the defensive disguise, pre snap read is not open
3. Analyze defense
4. Now what?
a. move to second read
b. buy time by shuffling around pocket, move to second read
5. Second read not open, now what?
a. onto the 3rd read
b. saftey valve

The problem Kap has is moving from step 2 to step 3. He takes too long to determine that a read is not open. This is due to being unable to instinctively read a defense in 2 seconds. He is fooled by tricky coverage disguises. These are young QB deficiencies. Kap needs more game time reps, not film study, not practices at walk through speed, not hand holding by the coaches with play design that calls for AR (anointed receiver) plays. It's trial by fire with the coaches having to balance QB development with winning a football game.

Here is what may go through the mind of an elite QB:
1. dropback
2. I was fooled by the defensive disguise, pre snap read is not open
3. It's man coverage on the outside, zone underneath. (defense has been analyzed)
4. Throw to the route (route combination) that beats man coverage.

There is a seamless transition from step 2 to step 3 in the mind of Brees and Rodgers. There is a lag time in the mind of Kap and other unpolished, inexperienced QBs.

To take this back to Crabs, I severely underestimated how important Crabs loss was. I thought Kap could have the same success throwing to less talented WRs. Completely wrong. What was happening in 2012 was that Crabs was used as a crutch. Crabs is a damn good WR and could beat man coverage with consistency. This made locking on to Crabs not so bad of a play. Also, in 2012 the defenses were scared to death of Kap running so they were very disciplined in their rush lanes. This made it easy on the Oline to give Kap time.

As mentioned by many posters, the presence of Moss/DWalker opened up a lot of space due to their speed, and in Moss' case, reputation. That allowed Kap to lock onto Crabs and he never really developed the quick thinking he needs in order to be an analytical QB. When Kap has time, he can progress through his reads. When he doesn't have time, he isn't quick enough to get to his secondary reads in a timely manner.

Have you read what Cossel and other's have said and shows up in film. He looks for the first read when it's not there he drops his eyes and begins reacting to the defensive front instead of keeping his eyes downfield and stepping up into the pocket(when it's there granted and that's another problem also.) This effectively makes him a one read QB.
Originally posted by Since07:
On an optimistic note the loss of Crabs helped force Kap and Davis to build their chemistry

And its developed nicely :) also got a nice groove with bolden. Now when crabs comes back should be great!
Love your enthusiasm
Now lets get threw the next few games til crabs is back and healthy. We have 2 more wks til crabs activated? When is deadline for crabs? Slipped my mind
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by Rascal:
That depends on who is your QB, if is Kap then yes. The guy can only lock on to 1 or at most 2 guys.

I have said this before, if you are a secondary receiver with the 49ers, you have next to no future here.

The more we look at this the more at seems this is right. There's way to much indication that this is a very big issue. God, I hope Harbaugh is the QB genius we think he is. The focus on Kap's development may be the most important thing for us all to watch in these last seven games. Will signs of the franchise QB we thought he was becoming re-emerge?

Id put my money on yes we do :)
We have had won many games with kaep at the healm. The problem on our team seems to be speed at wr. Marios fast but had to knock off the rust. Vernon steps out (inj) bolden becomes only threat on offense. Kyle was released for a reason! We should see much better play from the offense this week vs saints.
We sure need it, saints are legit, but so are we. This last game our O looked as if still on vacation :( watched game on phone. Our D played great tho. Only if we was able to stop that F'n run. Tho our O playing like that n D holding opponent to 10 we didnt deserve to win!
We will be money this week
Goniners
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Have you read what Cossel and other's have said and shows up in film. He looks for the first read when it's not there he drops his eyes and begins reacting to the defensive front instead of keeping his eyes downfield and stepping up into the pocket(when it's there granted and that's another problem also.) This effectively makes him a one read QB.

Yeah I saw that. I think highly of Cossel's take on things. I guess this is one thing I don't agree with him on. A 1 read Qb won't last more than 8 games in this league, and surely wouldn't have the games he's had. The bolded does happen, no doubt. Combine that with the ghost pressure he was feeling vs IND and it looked bad. Versus CAR, he had reason to fear the pass rush. I have seen Kap move his line of sight horizontally across the field. That is the proof I need to say he is not a 1 read QB. Don't take this as hyperbole. I am not saying he is even half way to where he needs to be regarding his ability to quickly scan the field. I'd call him a slow read QB, not a 1 read QB.
f**k!! we just need crabtree back already. He needs to go to europe and drink deer piss or whatever the hell it is everyone is doing. The goddamn season is on the line here!!
Is Crabtree that important? I'd say that's kind of a rhetorical question.
crab is a good wr who is important, what makes him VERY important to us is kaep is a 1 read guy for the most part, and totally trusted crab