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2013 - Week 10: Thoughts after rewatching the game

I blame 3 guys for the 49ers passing offense...

1. Harbaugh
2. Kaeper*rick
3. Roman
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

This. Teams realize Miller is the number three option in this offense. I do believe Kaep needs to give his other receivers the chance to make a play. Other receivers not named Kyle Williams that is. The Vance McDonalds, the Baldwins, etc. Not just in this game. And I don't want to hear about McDonald's one dropped pass. That was HUGE and definitely would've effected the outcome of the game, however as a QB, Kaep has to learn he has to continue to go to those guys.

Will we get better? Probably so as our weapons come back. However at this stage of his career, Kaep is a lot more dependent on his receivers, protection, and the OC than we would like. Which means we are going to have to endure some serious growing pains while this team is in the midst of trying to win a Super Bowl.
Kaep needs to start scrambling more and throw on the run. He really doesn't scramble too much so defenses are not afraid. They were very predictable yesterday. Nothing clever or tricky. We used to have defenses on their toes and have no idea what we were going to do next.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

This. Teams realize Miller is the number three option in this offense. I do believe Kaep needs to give his other receivers the chance to make a play. Other receivers not named Kyle Williams that is. The Vance McDonalds, the Baldwins, etc. Not just in this game. And I don't want to hear about McDonald's one dropped pass. That was HUGE and definitely would've effected the outcome of the game, however as a QB, Kaep has to learn he has to continue to go to those guys.

Will we get better? Probably so as our weapons come back. However at this stage of his career, Kaep is a lot more dependent on his receivers, protection, and the OC than we would like. Which means we are going to have to endure some serious growing pains while this team is in the midst of trying to win a Super Bowl.

At this point, get Williams involved. IDC. Get Baldwin involved. Get Hunter or James involved. Spread it out with 4 WR sets. It cannot be that hard to draw up 2-3 plays a game for EACH secondary WR or RB . IF they spread to ball out to each guy , RoBaugh would see how much the passing attack would open up. Magically, teams would be forced to account for ALL eligible Receivers.

Kaep has been doo doo, but Roman has been dog s***.

We need to make him spend some shower time with coach Sandusky.

I hope he gets his act together because if not, we might not even get into the playoffs. That would be a shame considering we are the most talented team in the NFL.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.

Who is Manningham for $300, Alex?

lol. I personally would enjoy that, but being that it was his Manningham's first experience under actual game conditions since last December, I can see the hesitance from Kap if the timing wasn't quite there yet between the two.
[ Edited by Imfasterthanur on Nov 11, 2013 at 5:26 PM ]
Nice write up Marvin49. So ready to move on to next week here!
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
I blame 3 guys for the 49ers passing offense...

1. Harbaugh
2. Kaeper*rick
3. Roman

3 belongs in 1. 1 belongs in 2. this is not some new issue with us in regards to roman and JH just letting him go off down retard road
Originally posted by Geeked:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.
This is where you get creative and a tad reckless with your QB. At Nevada, they kinda had the same problem. To overcome this issue, they would keep Kaep in the pistol and have him "read-option" the coverage.

He would identify his most likely open target before the snap. He would look at the receiving area to see if everyone was locked up in man or there was an opportunity to throw. If it was all man, he would take off.

Problem is, this is much harder to run in the pocket. You need to create intentional movement.

Odd thing is, this is exactly what Wilson is doing except he just extends the play until it becomes impossible to cover the receiver he's locked onto. This requires receivers that know how to time their routs and once they are completed... look back and run with your QB.

Great post. While I would take Kaepernick over Wilson 10 out of 10 times, Wilson does have an uncanny ability to extend plays.

I'm not sure if its Wilson's agility, his pocket awareness, or both, but it almost always appears as if Kaepernick is running for his life on scramble drills while receivers continue running their routes into coverage.
[ Edited by Imfasterthanur on Nov 11, 2013 at 5:29 PM ]
Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
I blame 3 guys for the 49ers passing offense...

1. Harbaugh
2. Kaeper*rick
3. Roman

The unholy trinity. lol. Where is lord Tolzien with his 280 passing yards?
Originally posted by RMuTT1981:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.

So fine, we can't blow top off of coverage, but the field is over 50 yards wide (160'!!), there is loads of room for a short to intermediate passing attack, i.e. fuh king west coast offense. There are ways to beat man to man, drags, bunch formations, crossing routes, double moves, etc.

Now why aren't these called?
1-Robaugh is an idiot.
2- Kaep can't consistently make these throws.

One or the other but not both.


And not having receivers is not an option. These guys have been catching footballs since they were 12 years old. Throw it to them and they just might catch it!

I absolutely agree with the initial part of your post, we need to utilize our strengths and take what the defense gives us, if it's a 3 yard pass, then take it. Paralleling body-punches in a boxing match, at the very least it would wear-down the defense, extend drives, and/or change the field position. In games like yesterday where the defenses are stout, these results are nearly as good as points.

As far as the receivers "catching footballs since they were 12", that is a moot point because the same can be said about the defensive-backs covering them. Our receivers need to beat defenses schematically, and that's why I put the onus on the coaches. I believe they can do it. I hope so.
Oh my goodness thank you for articulating my exact thoughts about the Seattle WRs... It's so frustrating to watch players like Baldwin make all of our WRs seem so bad and... basic, inept. They're making it seem like Wilson is having a much better season than he actually is.
4) O-Line: Some credit has to be given to the Panthers defense, but the Niners O-Line was horrible is pass protection. There were a few times that Kap could have gotten the ball out earlier, but he was under siege all day. It seemed they were doing fine run blocking, but that pass protection was horrible. Anthony Davis in particular seemed to struggle. They also had trouble all day with the blitz.

Marvin, great job as usual. You are best after a loss, but of course no one wants that.

I continue to be amazed at how the O-line gets a free pass from most. Statistically, they are 28th in yards/run at Football Outsiders. There pass protection is worse than it appears because Kaep is mobile. He didn't have a chance yesterday, particularly in the 2nd half. Yeah, they definitely had trouble all day with the blitz.
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Great post. While I would take Kaepernick over Wilson 10 out of 10 times, Wilson does have an uncanny ability to extend plays.

I'm not sure if its Wilson's agility, his pocket awareness, or both, but it almost always appears as if Kaepernick is running for his life on scramble drills while receivers continue running their routes into coverage.

Video game man vs. video game man. Wonder if Kaep is better than Wilson in Madden at least.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Great post. While I would take Kaepernick over Wilson 10 out of 10 times, Wilson does have an uncanny ability to extend plays.

I'm not sure if its Wilson's agility, his pocket awareness, or both, but it almost always appears as if Kaepernick is running for his life on scramble drills while receivers continue running their routes into coverage.

Video game man vs. video game man. Wonder if Kaep is better than Wilson in Madden at least.

Kaepernick, hands down! Especially since he's user controlled and not handcuffed by Greg Roman....

Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
4) O-Line: Some credit has to be given to the Panthers defense, but the Niners O-Line was horrible is pass protection. There were a few times that Kap could have gotten the ball out earlier, but he was under siege all day. It seemed they were doing fine run blocking, but that pass protection was horrible. Anthony Davis in particular seemed to struggle. They also had trouble all day with the blitz.

Marvin, great job as usual. You are best after a loss, but of course no one wants that.

I continue to be amazed at how the O-line gets a free pass from most. Statistically, they are 28th in yards/run at Football Outsiders. There pass protection is worse than it appears because Kaep is mobile. He didn't have a chance yesterday, particularly in the 2nd half. Yeah, they definitely had trouble all day with the blitz.

Goodwin has got to go. I was kind of surprised that he didn't get dumped this past offseason. Right now he's a net negative when it comes to run AND pass blocking. Iupati has gotten lit up in pass blocking on the regular, he ranks as one of the worst in the NFL, but he's also dealing with a shoulder injury and still doing a pretty damn good job of run blocking. Davis has been all over the place, up and down, up and down, 49ers really need some stability from that spot, especially after he inked a big new deal. Boone has been solid, very good at times, average at others but he's been consistent, hasn't had any real bad performances. Him and Staley have been the only solid pass-blockers on the OL for the 49ers.