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2013 - Week 10: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Glad to see Marv keeping his head, wish that was consistent throughout the zone.

I was upset at the play calling in particular. Gore's number should have been called far more often, and the WR screens and passes like that are not Kap's strong suit... he has a very long wind up in NFL terms but makes up for that with the velocity of his passes... so why then keep trying to pass short? Thats what I never understand, throwing WR screens allows the defense to jump on the play, but once you get past 10 yards on the field this windup no longer matters as his velocity is able to compensate. They played a highschool level gameplan yesterday and every call was predictable. I thought I was watching VCHS out there not an NFL team.
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.


I don't think we can have it both ways... when Kaep came in last year, he tore it up and everyone was on his nuts... this year, if the defense is even half good, we have no passing game at all. Something is obviously amiss, teams have been game planning for Kaep, and with Harbaugh saying they have to scale the playbook back, this is all very bad signs

I want to blame Roman 80%, because he sucks and everyone knows it

I want to blame Harbaugh 10% because Roman sucks and he should fix this

I want to blame Kaep 10% because in today's NFL---- 45 net yards????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????? I DONT CARE WHO THE WR ARE!!! 45 YARDS SUX!!!

Oh, and this whole, we wait till the last second to snap so the defense declares itself b******t--- When the defense knows what you are gonna do, they game plan around it. This waiting game gives us no advantage whatsoever. It is actually so predictable that DEFENSES have the advantage

Bold is 100% truth. Carolina exploited the fact that we wait until the last second to snap the ball and disguised their looks until the last few seconds on the play clock. If Roman and Harbaugh would have realized this, they could have had Kap snap it with 10 or more on the clock and ruined the defensive advantage.
Thanks for the summary Marvin.

I have my issues with Kap but they pale in comparison to the issues I have with Roman and ... I guess Harbaugh at this point.

Why do we take offensive players high in the draft when we ultimately won't use them? We're just working McDonald into the passing game? LMJ with awesome talent is a healthy scratch for most of the season thus far? Baldwin not playing despite coming from a team where he was able to contribute something? I guess I have a huge problem with a team who looks good on draft day and on Sundays have a problem with incorporating those same players into its offense. Is it too much to ask to have both Hunter and Gore or LMJ and Gore on the field at the same time? What is most concerning to me is that after the rash of injuries we had at WR, it seemed as if we just decided to weather the storm, not be creative with what we had, not even coach creativity and just wait until everyone was healthy at once. I have 2 second rounders on this team who haven't really done anything. Are they busts? Sure didn't seem so when given more than 1 opportunity here and there. I thought this team was on an uptrend with development of players. It would seem that the defense is lightyears ahead of offensive talent development and you know that finger is starting to point at someone .......
[ Edited by NinerGM on Nov 11, 2013 at 2:48 PM ]
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.

So fine, we can't blow top off of coverage, but the field is over 50 yards wide (160'!!), there is loads of room for a short to intermediate passing attack, i.e. fuh king west coast offense. There are ways to beat man to man, drags, bunch formations, crossing routes, double moves, etc.

Now why aren't these called?
1-Robaugh is an idiot.
2- Kaep can't consistently make these throws.

One or the other but not both.


And not having receivers is not an option. These guys have been catching footballs since they were 12 years old. Throw it to them and they just might catch it!
[ Edited by RMuTT1981 on Nov 11, 2013 at 2:52 PM ]
I've never seen a team fall on their faces so bad after 1 player goes out. They rely so much on Vernon it's a shame. Is he really all we have because that was pitiful. Players go down all the time and it's up to whoever is replacing them and the QB to step it up. I remember one year brett favre had no one to throw to and analysts were saying it all season. He still brought the Packers to the NFC championship because he was a playmaker. Kaep needs to become that.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.

I didn't get to watch the game so I truly don't know, but is Kap looking at the pictures when the defense is on the field?

The games I do get I watch, I don't recall Kap doing it. I do realize that TV just might no show it. But damn, they sure show Peyton doing it.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Thanks for the summary Marvin.

I have my issues with Kap but they pale in comparison to the issues I have with Roman and ... I guess Harbaugh at this point.

Why do we take offensive players high in the draft when we ultimately won't use them? We're just working McDonald into the passing game? LMJ with awesome talent is a healthy scratch for most of the season thus far? Baldwin not playing despite coming from a team where he was able to contribute something? I guess I have a huge problem with a team who looks good on draft day and on Sundays have a problem with incorporating those same players into its offense. Is it too much to ask to have both Hunter and Gore or LMJ and Gore on the field at the same time? What is most concerning to me is that after the rash of injuries we had at WR, it seemed as if we just decided to weather the storm, not be creative with what we had, not even coach creativity and just wait until everyone was healthy at once. I have 2 second rounders on this team who haven't really done anything. Are they busts? Sure didn't seem so when given more than 1 opportunity here and there. I thought this team was on an uptrend with development of players. It would seem that the defense is lightyears ahead of offensive talent development and you know that finger is starting to point at someone .......

First, thanks, Marvin...you are a gem as usual...THe above is something I have thought many times. We are always so happy on Draft Day. Then, we do not integrate them well particularly on offense. Seattle gets offensive folks ready to play and integrate quickly, e.g. Kearse and even Ricardo Lockette. We have to face it that our coaching staff, particularly on offense, does not coach up and integrate well. This needs to be fixed.
Originally posted by 4t9ers:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.

I didn't get to watch the game so I truly don't know, but is Kap looking at the pictures when the defense is on the field?

The games I do get I watch, I don't recall Kap doing it. I do realize that TV just might no show it. But damn, they sure show Peyton doing it.

Yes he does. He was shown talking to his QB coach looking at photos, and he was shown talking to Colt alone with the binder at one point and Colt and McLeod at another point.

And it's been shown in multiple other games that I watched.
Maybe some of you guys are right.

Kaepernick can't play.

All those interceptions he threw against Carolina, tons of them, despicable.

No talent to read defenses or go through progressions with 3 to 5 defensive lineman hitting him every pass attempt, despicable.

Just a game manager like Smith, couldn't throw accurate down field while being sacked or with 3 to 5 guys on him in 2 seconds, despicable.

Yep, had nothing to do with the offensive line or game plan.
Originally posted by 49erWay:
Maybe some of you guys are right.

Kaepernick can't play.

All those interceptions he threw against Carolina, tons of them, despicable.

No talent to read defenses or go through progressions with 3 to 5 defensive lineman hitting him every pass attempt, despicable.

Just a game manager like Smith, couldn't throw accurate down field while being sacked or with 3 to 5 guys on him in 2 seconds, despicable.

Yep, had nothing to do with the offensive line or game plan.

or receivers dropping passes...
Originally posted by 49erWay:
Maybe some of you guys are right.

Kaepernick can't play.

All those interceptions he threw against Carolina, tons of them, despicable.

No talent to read defenses or go through progressions with 3 to 5 defensive lineman hitting him every pass attempt, despicable.

Just a game manager like Smith, couldn't throw accurate down field while being sacked or with 3 to 5 guys on him in 2 seconds, despicable.

Yep, had nothing to do with the offensive line or game plan.

LOL, as i was reading i remember a quote he said, "Thats ok, I managed the team right to a victory". Thats all no big deal, just remember that Smith quote.
  • Jcool
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Originally posted by NinerGM:
Thanks for the summary Marvin.

I have my issues with Kap but they pale in comparison to the issues I have with Roman and ... I guess Harbaugh at this point.

Why do we take offensive players high in the draft when we ultimately won't use them? We're just working McDonald into the passing game? LMJ with awesome talent is a healthy scratch for most of the season thus far? Baldwin not playing despite coming from a team where he was able to contribute something? I guess I have a huge problem with a team who looks good on draft day and on Sundays have a problem with incorporating those same players into its offense. Is it too much to ask to have both Hunter and Gore or LMJ and Gore on the field at the same time? What is most concerning to me is that after the rash of injuries we had at WR, it seemed as if we just decided to weather the storm, not be creative with what we had, not even coach creativity and just wait until everyone was healthy at once. I have 2 second rounders on this team who haven't really done anything. Are they busts? Sure didn't seem so when given more than 1 opportunity here and there. I thought this team was on an uptrend with development of players. It would seem that the defense is lightyears ahead of offensive talent development and you know that finger is starting to point at someone .......

I think it all boils down to Roman hasn't grown from being a running game coordinator. He seems really inventive with the run game but the pass game seems to be pretty basic.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Marvin, simple question.

Do you think Kap understands whats happening on the field?


As much or more than most QBs with 16 NFL starts.

you dont put any stock into the idea that he's been in the league for 2.5 years?


Go back and read the stats of the QBs I mentioned in the original post. None of those guys started as rookies.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Marvin, simple question.

Do you think Kap understands whats happening on the field?


As much or more than most QBs with 16 NFL starts.

you dont put any stock into the idea that he's been in the league for 2.5 years?


Go back and read the stats of the QBs I mentioned in the original post. None of those guys started as rookies.

And Rodgers inherited a 13-3 team that went to the NFC Championship the year before and was one Brett Favre INT from the SB. So it's not like they all inherited duds or anything.
Originally posted by sking20854:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Marvin, simple question.

Do you think Kap understands whats happening on the field?


As much or more than most QBs with 16 NFL starts.

you dont put any stock into the idea that he's been in the league for 2.5 years?


Go back and read the stats of the QBs I mentioned in the original post. None of those guys started as rookies.

And Rodgers inherited a 13-3 team that went to the NFC Championship the year before and was one Brett Favre INT from the SB. So it's not like they all inherited duds or anything.


Pats won the SB in Bradys first year as a starter. Those Chargers had LaDainian Tomlinson. Those Bengals had a few playoff runs.