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2013 - Week 10: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by ltrain:
The Panthers did a great job confusing Kap before the snap by making last second adjustments. How many audibles did Kap call at the line of scrimmage? How often did those audibled plays succeed? I remember a lot of audibles and many of them did not work well. As with all our losses, we passed way too much in the 2nd half. It was like we were down 10 points, not one. The playcalling woes in this game can be given to both Kap and Roman.

Execution was also obviously an issue as well. I remember early in the game we had a 3rd and one play where we ran the ball up the gut. I didn't have any issue with the called play but we were stuffed for a 2 yard loss on a dive play up the middle! Unfortunately that kind of set the tone on offense for the day.


I mentioned this briefly. The Panthers were making adjustments very late on the playclock...to late for Kap to adjust.

That's a sound strategy by the Panthers and probably one we will see more and more.

HOU did this alot also. What I think is that they show a two deep safety look (7 man box), hope that Kap goes with the run call, then run that safety up to make it an 8 man box with about 5 seconds on the playclock. All in the name of confusing a young QB.

Defenses are only able to do this because they KNOW the 49ers like to wait until 0-3 seconds are left on the playclock before snapping the ball. If a defense know this, then that is when they will finally reveal the defensive formation they want to line up in. Anything shown with more than 5 seconds on the playclock is a disguise.
Originally posted by 49erWay:
I'm sorry but if you think Kaepernick is sub-par you have the IQ of a dung beetle. There is NOTHING he can't do and do at an all-pro level.

This one was on Roman not making aggressive adjustments at halftime and Harbaugh not making sure of it.

Even with the line playing like scrubs in that game, with aggressive game plan adjustments we could have put up 21 in the second half.

Reminder...........THEY ONE BY ONE FREIKING POINT!
I'm sorry but you can't tell someone has the I.Q of an insect, and then the very next sentence say that. In order to validate your position of being more knowledgable than the insect, you should not be making ridiculous over satements like that. Just sayin'.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.


I don't think we can have it both ways... when Kaep came in last year, he tore it up and everyone was on his nuts... this year, if the defense is even half good, we have no passing game at all. Something is obviously amiss, teams have been game planning for Kaep, and with Harbaugh saying they have to scale the playbook back, this is all very bad signs

I want to blame Roman 80%, because he sucks and everyone knows it

I want to blame Harbaugh 10% because Roman sucks and he should fix this

I want to blame Kaep 10% because in today's NFL---- 45 net yards????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????? I DONT CARE WHO THE WR ARE!!! 45 YARDS SUX!!!

Oh, and this whole, we wait till the last second to snap so the defense declares itself b******t--- When the defense knows what you are gonna do, they game plan around it. This waiting game gives us no advantage whatsoever. It is actually so predictable that DEFENSES have the advantage


1) Am I the only one who remembers Jimmy Raye?

2) This isn't only Romans offense. Its Harbaughs as well.

3) Actually it was 91 yards. Not a lot better, but the total yards accounts for sacks. I also happen to care who the receivers are. Call me crazy.

1) When our offense looks like Jimmy Raye, we have a problem.

2) I also blame Harbaugh

3) We have had WR problems for years. This is definitely a roster problem--- Baalke!!! But modern NFL-- with all the rules, beg teams to pass more and take advantage of all the no-contact stuff. In today's NFL, if a QB can't cross 100 yards in a game, he is not doing his job. And when Kaep gets to the sidelines, he is not reading any film because he knows there is no need to. His one, his ONE option was double covered. Is Kaep not a modern day NFL QB? Does he not see that this offense blows? Does he not ask for more complex plays with more than one WR? Why Not??? If Kaep is not smart enough to go back to Roman and tell Roman to f**k WITH THIS STUPID s**t... I'm not sure he's made out for it. He's taking a losing effort and chalking it up to execution. b******t! He should be actively trying to help Roman change the playbook to something that works

I'm sure that any young QB worth his salt will be talking to the OC and getting plays scripted that work. Kaep should see that the current plays suck. Why is there no feedback on the sidelines? Why is there no discussion? You can't tell me that Kaep is young and will figure it out. The SUPER BOWL WINDOW IS NOW!


When your opponents--- LIKE Carlos Dansby---- tell the press that the Niners have a rink-dink high school offense, and everyone in the league knows how to defend it, then Kaep can't come back and tell the press that it was "Execution"

Its NOT EXECUTION! Its the plays!! I want Kaep to step up and take control of this offense and audible it to his strengths. He's the leader, isn't he?
[ Edited by Big_Daddy on Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM ]
I was very opptomistic after the Indy loss. I was convinced that the coaching staff would dig in and come up with a strategy to get us back to winning games, especially with a soft schedule coming up.

I have close to the opposite feeling after this loss. Two weeks rest for us and at home vs one week rest for Carolina and having to fly across the country. This is the best our offense can currently do against a very good defense. Not pretty. When we have to pass the ball, we have issues. No deep weapons other than Davis. Mediocre pass protection. Kaep appears to possess mediocre short range touch and accuracy at this point in his career. And he's a below average passer under durress. All normal stuff for a young QB, but, at this point, our pass offense overall is one of the worst in the NFL (statiscially the worst but we have more talent than some of the other bottom feeders).

Bottom Line: No team in recent NFL history has come close to winning a Superbowl with a bottom 5 passing offense. Right now, we are borderline playoff team that lacks the offensive firepower to scare (or beat) a playoff team on the road, which is where we will be playing. So, here's to praying for a miracle!
Marvin,

I'm glad you have you're head on straight. I was worried you would jump on board with the call for people's heads. Everytime your thoughts express my feelings on the game.

I know you always start with the Quarterback stats as your first point, but I thought you should use the top 10 as a ranking for your thoughts...#1 being the biggest thing you took away from the game. etc...

For me, this week, it's #3. Everytime we lose Vernon, we look absolutely horrendous. We have no one to pass it to after that because Boldin gets doubled and we can't be cute with our run scheme because defenses don't care. Their odds are pretty good to win if they can stop Gore with 7 or 8, double Boldin, and make Kaep win the game by throwing to Vance? Williams? Celek?

Also, at the end of the day, we have a great defense and if our offense, come playoff time can have VD, Boldin, Mario and hopefully Crabs with Gore and the Oline... I think that they are a good enough team to make a playoff run. Ravens did it last year and our team actually reminds me of Pittsburghs first Suberbowl with Big Ben. Ben didn't play all that great, and Pitt didn't need him too. They relyed on the D and the heavy run game of Bettis. I think we are very similar to them.
Clearly Kap is going through a very rough patch. He needs better coaching to get better. Obviously he has physical skills off the charts.

I can't say w/any authority but his soft touch passes suck. He seems [at least from the TV] to be staring down one receiver.

I don't buy into the carp that once Crabs arrives everything will get better. It won't, our problems are deeper than a one guy fix.

With all the bullsh-t about a WCO treasure trove of info in the vaults it seems nobody has looked at it at all - especially JH.

This is his team to operate on the field and he seems as stubborn as Nolan and Sing.

I don't care how good our running game is - eventually we MUST be able to pass the damn ball w/accuracy and touch otherwise we won't make it through the playoffs.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Marvin, simple question.

Do you think Kap understands whats happening on the field?


As much or more than most QBs with 16 NFL starts.
Vance Mcdonald hasn't done s**t all year, other than run over Richard Sherman.
Originally posted by eastie:
I think you've forgotten to include Jeep Chryst. His passing designed offense stinks....

FYI Chryst is the red zone coordinator and the WR coach John Morton is the Passing game coordinator
My thoughts.... Is this even a playoff caliber team right now? The answer is clearly no. I know, the 49ers defense is championship caliber but our offense couldn't game plan their way out of a wet paper bag let alone a win in January in Seattle. LMAO! They haven't even been able to stay in the game against playoff caliber teams this season. Technically yes they were in that Carolina game until the end but after watching Kaep s**t himself down after down did anyone really think they had a chance on that final drive?
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.

Who is Manningham for $300, Alex?
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.

That makes sense on paper, but the issue is, we have NO ONE (assuming Vernon Davis is hurt) that is a deep threat. Without that. All the defense has to do is play a single high safety, man-to-man-across the board, and contain the pocket.

Defenses would being daring us to throw deep and that wouldn't play in our favor.

I hate to admit it, but our personnel at the moment simply is not good enough to dominate the air through spread formations.
This is where you get creative and a tad reckless with your QB. At Nevada, they kinda had the same problem. To overcome this issue, they would keep Kaep in the pistol and have him "read-option" the coverage.

He would identify his most likely open target before the snap. He would look at the receiving area to see if everyone was locked up in man or there was an opportunity to throw. If it was all man, he would take off.

Problem is, this is much harder to run in the pocket. You need to create intentional movement.

Odd thing is, this is exactly what Wilson is doing except he just extends the play until it becomes impossible to cover the receiver he's locked onto. This requires receivers that know how to time their routs and once they are completed... look back and run with your QB.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Marvin, simple question.

Do you think Kap understands whats happening on the field?


As much or more than most QBs with 16 NFL starts.

you dont put any stock into the idea that he's been in the league for 2.5 years?
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Vance Mcdonald hasn't done s**t all year, other than run over Richard Sherman.


What do you mean by "hasn't done s**t"? What opportunities has he gotten to do anything? He's blocked pretty well, which is what they ask him to do for the most part.