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2013 - Week 10: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by ltrain:
The Panthers did a great job confusing Kap before the snap by making last second adjustments. How many audibles did Kap call at the line of scrimmage? How often did those audibled plays succeed? I remember a lot of audibles and many of them did not work well. As with all our losses, we passed way too much in the 2nd half. It was like we were down 10 points, not one. The playcalling woes in this game can be given to both Kap and Roman.

Execution was also obviously an issue as well. I remember early in the game we had a 3rd and one play where we ran the ball up the gut. I didn't have any issue with the called play but we were stuffed for a 2 yard loss on a dive play up the middle! Unfortunately that kind of set the tone on offense for the day.


I mentioned this briefly. The Panthers were making adjustments very late on the playclock...to late for Kap to adjust.

That's a sound strategy by the Panthers and probably one we will see more and more.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.


I don't think we can have it both ways... when Kaep came in last year, he tore it up and everyone was on his nuts... this year, if the defense is even half good, we have no passing game at all. Something is obviously amiss, teams have been game planning for Kaep, and with Harbaugh saying they have to scale the playbook back, this is all very bad signs

I want to blame Roman 80%, because he sucks and everyone knows it

I want to blame Harbaugh 10% because Roman sucks and he should fix this

I want to blame Kaep 10% because in today's NFL---- 45 net yards????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????? I DONT CARE WHO THE WR ARE!!! 45 YARDS SUX!!!

Oh, and this whole, we wait till the last second to snap so the defense declares itself b******t--- When the defense knows what you are gonna do, they game plan around it. This waiting game gives us no advantage whatsoever. It is actually so predictable that DEFENSES have the advantage
[ Edited by Big_Daddy on Nov 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
?

We are watching different games man. LOL.

Vernon is great.
Boldin is good when someone else can create space.

...and I'm out.

Where the hell is the rest of this great WR corps!?! Manningham might add something, but he's still working back. Crab may never be 100% this year and hasn't been on the field.

When Vernon is out, teams bracket Boldin. He can't beat double coverage. Nobody else is getting open. Nobody.

I haven't watch the coach's film on the 2nd half..but I defy you to find a passing play in the 1st half of the game where there wasn't an option for Kaep to go to. Just one..go ahead.


Just because a guy appears open doesn't mean the QB is going to get to that progression. If the guy is a third option but the QB is under pressure, he's not going to get that far.

The QB doesn't see the entire field at once. Watching film doesn't help you if you don't know the design of the play.

Thers is no way tho that you are going to convince me that we are fielding one of the best WR corps in the NFL. That's lunacy.

Oh no...not now...we're mediocre at best..as we have been for the last several years...but when Crabtree is on the field with Boldin and Manningham...unless they haven't recovered enought to be playing...then yes at that point we will have one of the best.

Actually, Kaep was seeing people (maybe not always the right people)...but it was a combination of bad passes, PDs, and drops.
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.


I don't think we can have it both ways... when Kaep came in last year, he tore it up and everyone was on his nuts... this year, if the defense is even half good, we have no passing game at all. Something is obviously amiss, teams have been game planning for Kaep, and with Harbaugh saying they have to scale the playbook back, this is all very bad signs

I want to blame Roman 80%, because he sucks and everyone knows it

I want to blame Harbaugh 10% because Roman sucks and he should fix this

I want to blame Kaep 10% because in today's NFL---- 45 net yards????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????? I DONT CARE WHO THE WR ARE!!! 45 YARDS SUX!!!

Oh, and this whole, we wait till the last second to snap so the defense declares itself b******t--- When the defense knows what you are gonna do, they game plan around it. This waiting game gives us no advantage whatsoever. It is actually so predictable that DEFENSES have the advantage


1) Am I the only one who remembers Jimmy Raye?

2) This isn't only Romans offense. Its Harbaughs as well.

3) Actually it was 91 yards. Not a lot better, but the total yards accounts for sacks. I also happen to care who the receivers are. Call me crazy.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
?

We are watching different games man. LOL.

Vernon is great.
Boldin is good when someone else can create space.

...and I'm out.

Where the hell is the rest of this great WR corps!?! Manningham might add something, but he's still working back. Crab may never be 100% this year and hasn't been on the field.

When Vernon is out, teams bracket Boldin. He can't beat double coverage. Nobody else is getting open. Nobody.

I haven't watch the coach's film on the 2nd half..but I defy you to find a passing play in the 1st half of the game where there wasn't an option for Kaep to go to. Just one..go ahead.


Just because a guy appears open doesn't mean the QB is going to get to that progression. If the guy is a third option but the QB is under pressure, he's not going to get that far.

The QB doesn't see the entire field at once. Watching film doesn't help you if you don't know the design of the play.

Thers is no way tho that you are going to convince me that we are fielding one of the best WR corps in the NFL. That's lunacy.

Oh no...not now...we're mediocre at best..as we have been for the last several years...but when Crabtree is on the field with Boldin and Manningham...unless they haven't recovered enought to be playing...then yes at that point we will have one of the best.

Actually, Kaep was seeing people (maybe not always the right people)...but it was a combination of bad passes, PDs, and drops.


OK...then you might be right...but I'm not yet convinced that Crab will be the Crab we remember when he returns to the lineup.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap is that he seems to be regressing (and showing the career stats don't show that). In fact, he barely looks like the same guy as last year. He just appears to be indecisive. And we can't just blame the WR's. Wilson and Luck seem to be able to throw to no-name receivers when their top receivers are out with injuries (along with Brady, Brees, etc). The difference is that they throw their receivers open, something Kap doesn't seem to do. They also seem to be more comfortable going to their 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choice than Kap does. In fact I am now questioning whether Kap is the right quarterback to lead the 49ers. Sigh.

Relax.

Kap is was RAW as hell coming out of college. He was considered a project. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play yet.

Kaps number have dived for several reasons and his targets are a HUGE reason why. Not the only one, but a very big one. Kap will be fine. Every single game he plays he's learning. Every mistake teaches a lesson. Most QBs don't hit the scene the way Kap did last year. He is capable of being that guy. Its in there. He just needs to figure out what to do when he's not getting a lot of help. Go look at Tom Brady's number this year.

People like to dismiss it, but don't think the receivers aren't a he part of the problem.

You can't "throw open" every receiver. You especially can't expect that from a guy this early in his career. All the great QBs in the NFL had really bad games early on.

Whats up Marv, I have to say I agree with you to a certain degree, especially the bolded. after you said Relax. Now with that one sentence right there. So Raw, considered a project and not ready to play yet. This all goes against the QB decision last season. I know for a fact that Harbs didnt make the switch for a better QB, just to see him go thru growing pains, and have our record affected by it. If that is the case, then that means we considered this a try out year. I cant see us after we were led to 6-2, and then he took the reigns, helped us get to the playoffs, and nearly helped us fight back to win the SB, and now he needs time to get everything together.

He will have his growing pains, but J. Smith, F. Gore, and a few other vets are getting old. As Justin Smith said last year, that window of being a contender or making a name for yourself is closing as the years and seasons go by. I mean who would of thought that Seattle would be leading the division.

Overall, I'm with most that come on, dont throw the towel away on Kaep just yet, i mean he still hasnt even had a full season. But I also dont think, the switch at QB was made to go through a finding your way in the NFL type of mentality. Harbs and Co believed that Kaep would continue the progress he had after the GB game, not what we have now. But it was telling when Harbs said out of his mouth, "We will dial back the playbook for Kaep", and he said that after our second loss.

So coming out and saying it's not the playcalling it's the execution. Players saying it's the execution, fans seeing at times its the execution, then shortening the playbook. He probably is still doing his learning curve thing. I just hope it all gets fixed soon, because to be that team, that we are capable of being, we need a QB that just knows how to get it done. Don't mean he's gonna kill every game, just know that the QB will also be one of the highlights for the O, and not just the running game.


oh man...PLEASE...lets not go down this road.

We aren't going back. He's gone. Enough.

Kap gave them the bets chance to win last year. They almost pulled it off. Its over.

The only references I ever want to hear about "he who shall not be named" is the compensation....IE Tank Carradine, and 2nd and 3rd round this upcoming draft (the 3rd because they obtained it trading down the Chiefs pick this year).

LOL. Well i was hoping you read between the lines with that one, but I see u went straight for commenting against the one that shall not be named. I'm just saying, Kaep wasnt given the reins because we felt he was a project that needed to be culminated. I thought all that time was during the time he was on the bench. So I'm saying now, I just cant see him being our starter, if he's still a project, raw, and not ready to play yet. I think that time has come and gone.

No one fan, I think anyway is saying at the start of the season I hope that Kaep can get it together and be that QB we all need him to be. I dont think the commercials, and Jaws saying top 5 QB, all the announcers, commentators, and analysts alike, all jumping on the Kaep wagon. And now some are saying growing pains. I mean most felt he arrived, and I think Harbs and Co, thought the same thing. Thats why the big passing offense, or trying of, in the first 3 games.

So I'm just saying, in reality, maybe Kaep still does have some growing to do. But all these lack of offensive production issues, are they just lack of experience issues, or are there still key things he still hasnt mastered to truly be a starting NFL QB that you can put the game on his shoulders.
Vernon will probably not play. You're right, Kap needs to get through it no matter what. I would like to see him run more, but for whatever reason (maybe the nagging foot thing), he doesn't look as explosive. He hasn't looked as fast as he did in the playoff game against GB. When he runs, it opens up passing options. Also, Kap is streaky. Sometimes he gets in a really good rhythm/flow. And at times, he can't hit s**t. I think he needs some 10+ yard passes early on. Maybe that pass to McDonald would've got him going yesterday. As he matures in the position, I hope he becomes more consistent. I still have confidence in his ability, but no one can argue that he hasn't disappointed this year passing the ball (even with all the injuries to the WRs).

I think Reid will be fine. Tolbert is a big guy and he used his helmet as a battering ram which was BS. Those things happen to safeties. Too bad we won't have Reid in NO. We obviously need him against that offense and I'm sure he would be playing with something "extra" back home in Louisiana.
100 percent cosign on this one...good drop marvin
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I think Roman made mistakes yesterday, but I'm not willing to put it all in his lap.

Snyder played TE because none of the 49er receivers was going to be able to BLOCK like a TE. It wasn't about selling Snyder as a receiver...it was about selling the entire formation. It was about running the ball.

Not having a backup plan? Not sure how many backup plans you are gonna have for losing your best offensive pass catcher and 2 of your 3 TEs in an offense that plays 2 TEs most of the time.

I'm not saying Roman is blameless tho. I think my point is that everyone want to pint to one thing and say THAT is the problem. I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I think its Roman, Kap and lack of receivers. They all have a part in this. Its not anyones fault entirely and nobody is blameless.

I think you've forgotten to include Jeep Chryst. His passing designed offense stinks....
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by ltrain:
The Panthers did a great job confusing Kap before the snap by making last second adjustments. How many audibles did Kap call at the line of scrimmage? How often did those audibled plays succeed? I remember a lot of audibles and many of them did not work well. As with all our losses, we passed way too much in the 2nd half. It was like we were down 10 points, not one. The playcalling woes in this game can be given to both Kap and Roman.

Execution was also obviously an issue as well. I remember early in the game we had a 3rd and one play where we ran the ball up the gut. I didn't have any issue with the called play but we were stuffed for a 2 yard loss on a dive play up the middle! Unfortunately that kind of set the tone on offense for the day.


I mentioned this briefly. The Panthers were making adjustments very late on the playclock...to late for Kap to adjust.

That's a sound strategy by the Panthers and probably one we will see more and more.

its easy for them to purposely do that when we consistently snap the ball with 1 second left on the play clock.

if we weren't so predicable and maybe went in with a strategy that had us snapping the ball with 10-15 seconds..and adjustments if need be would still give us another 5 seconds to snap the ball...

but the point is, the defense would adjust earlier...or at least have less get off on the ball on our OLine. Also there would be more time to see the defense show their hand, on who is blitzing.

its just the same s**t every week, and hasn't been the same s**t since Roman and Harbaugh got here? Waiting too long to get the call in...Waiting to the last second to snap the ball....taking penalties....wasting timeouts.
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Haha. While I wasn't a fan of Greg Roman yesterday, ironically, this was actually a good play-call.

Since the fullback typically dictates the direction of a run, most linebackers shed the FB, rendering him open if the play-action is deceptive enough.

Yeah, that was a few weeks ago, Carolina jumped all over the attempted screen pass to Miller. It just continues a pattern of this team beating a dead horse.

Oh, you're referring to the screen pass -- in that case, I agree. But I was referring to our first-series on the opening drive, where we faked it to Gore and Bruce Miller peeled off his lead-block for a big gain.

That's pretty much the ONLY time we need to see Miller as the primary target haha

but then we tried it when we were backed up against the goal line...and the Panthers were all over it.

Of course he was covered, with Vernon Davis out with a concussion at that point -- replaced by a rookie -- along with the worse receiving corps in the league, who is left to cover? Kyle Williams? a double-teamed Anquan Boldin? A rusty Mario Manningham?

No good defense will bite on a play-action when they already know we abandoned the run (i.e., Frank Gore with 4 carries in the second-half).

so you don't call that play then...that is my point. But again, imo, they were all over it because they recognized it instantly.

or how about spread them all out...and draw up the middle or Kap audibles to a quick pass to a slot person if they don't respect getting spread out...or a mismatch with WR vs LB.
  • kdogg
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I honestly don't believe the O-Line performed that poorly. Yeah, they gave up pressure, but any elite defense is always going to get pressure. Kap barely follows through his progressions. He makes his initial read and gets happy feet. It seems the play calling wasn't helping either. It almost appears they coach Kap to be conservative and not throw into tight coverage.

They needed to change the tempo like go no huddle. Get away from calling 2 plays (and rushing to get play off in time) and let Kap call some plays and/or make audibles.
I'm sorry but if you think Kaepernick is sub-par you have the IQ of a dung beetle. There is NOTHING he can't do and do at an all-pro level.

This one was on Roman not making aggressive adjustments at halftime and Harbaugh not making sure of it.

Even with the line playing like scrubs in that game, with aggressive game plan adjustments we could have put up 21 in the second half.

Reminder...........THEY ONE BY ONE FREIKING POINT!
Thanks for the breakdown Marv.

Look it basically comes down to Kaep/offense not being able to run Roman's game plan. Right? Now I'm not saying it was the right game plan, in fact it is impossible to know whether or not it was, since we can't run it. Maybe in practice it flows, all the passes find their targets, time to throw, everyone is in, etc. etc., but obviously it is a different story on sundays.

So who is to blame? Kaep for not being able to run it, or Roman for not having the right game plan in?

This is my take;
Kaep has regressed, I don't know why, but he isn't as good as he was, are they coaching him down(we're gonna make it easy on you, you only need to read 1/2 or 1/3 of field), therefore sending the message " you ain't good enough yet", or is he for some reason, just not able to read the whole field( or part) yet? Passes are off or just not thrown, some good one's yes, but an NFL qb needs to make good throws 95% of the time. There is no "we'll get 'em next time" arm around the shoulder kind of thing in the NFL.

When he gets sacked it is usually after he is trying to break out of pocket. That split second decision is the split second where you see guys like Brees and Luck step up and throw it, then get immediately hammered by some Defensive guy, while guys like Kaep n Wilson run and try and make room, hoping receivers will break open, the difference is Wilson chucks it up there 50-50 like someone else said, and Kaep doesn't.

Bottom line is Kaep has issues anyone saying he doesn't, well you just don't have a feel for the game.

Roman/Harbaugh: Adjustments? Anyone? Anyone? For the love of god, do something!!!!!! I don't care what it is, hurry up, wild cat, spread, statue of liberty play, something, i'm not the coach I don't know which one's to make, BUT THEY SHOULD!!!!!!!! THEY ARE THE COACHES, WELL PAID COACHES. ARGHHHHHH!!!

So basically as in all things in life there is a grey area, Im gonna assign our offensive futility 50% Kaep, 35% Roman, 15% Harbaugh.
Marvin, simple question.

Do you think Kap understands whats happening on the field?