What is the real problem with this offensive offense?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
You do understand that this offense is designed this way - it was the same exact design when Alex Smith was here - the only difference is that he was a terrible scrambler so the coaches kept a RB in as a checkdown. That's been replaced - now the RB is kept in to block. So if it's a question of shutting down Kap, it also should be a question about the entire scheme/philosophy of this college offense.

This. People calling Kaepernick a "one read" QB are as blind as Stevie Wonder. The guy has shown the ability to go through his reads but when the playcall is setup to have only one guy receiving and two other receivers blocking, what do you expect?


Go get another QB, make him a starter, see what happens in this offense, it'll be the exact same s**t. You don't think Kaepernick could make things work in the Philly offense, the New Orleans offense, heck, even the Chiefs offense?


They seem to obsess so much over low-percentage deep downfield plays and ignore the shorter, intermediate passes that you can really beat a defense up with. Kaepernick is not the one drawing up the game plan, he's not the one who's calling for 7 step drops against a highly aggressive defense, this is on the coaching staff, until they change what they are doing, nothing on the field will change, I don't care who you put at quarterback or how many receivers....AKA......fleet-footed downfield blockers you bring in.

Yep, and this is exactly why Boldin was called for OPI on that long catch by Manningham. Half the players on offense are being used as decoys to get one or two guys open. Think back to the Crabtree touchdown against Atlanta. It was an underneath slant where the two inside receivers just ran straight toward the DBs to give Crab space to move. It is the same type of play I call in my flag football league.

Originally posted by gunslinger8:
Anyone else remember this?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/07/harbaugh-we-will-install-the-west-coast-offense/
So was the dude flat out lying or does he even know what the west coast offense is? That abomination he put on the field today doesn't resemble WCO on its best day and I am offended that they could be mentioned in the same breath. Don't paint your Ford Escort red and try telling me it's a Ferrari, dude.

I remember all the talk about going through Bill Walsh's old tapes and his offensive ideas, I doubt much of that happened. In 2011, the 49ers did call quite a bit of the traditional WCO early on but they've progressively gotten away from it. I don't even know what to call this offense. Its a b*****dized Bo Schembechler/Lindy Infante/college hybrid offense. By far the worst schemes as far as passing plays go in the NFL. For all the good things the defense does, the offense's playcalling continues to hold the team back. Its frustrating to see other teams bring guys in off the street and have success with them, meanwhile the 49ers continually struggle to utilize the guys they have.

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:
We actually run a similar play out to Bruce Miller and have hit it a few times but good Ds have adjusted to even our most basic plays. Kap also has the stronger arm but Wilson is more shifty and puts a better touch on his throws.

You also see them utilize more of their receivers, on any play they have 3 or 4 potential targets, when Wilson scrambles, guys break off their routes to get open for him, I don't see any of that on this offense. Usually there's 1 or 2 targets on a passing playcall, if for whatever reason those guys don't get open, the play is screwed and now Kaepernick is running for his life. Its truly horrible offense.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:
We actually run a similar play out to Bruce Miller and have hit it a few times but good Ds have adjusted to even our most basic plays. Kap also has the stronger arm but Wilson is more shifty and puts a better touch on his throws.

You also see them utilize more of their receivers, on any play they have 3 or 4 potential targets, when Wilson scrambles, guys break off their routes to get open for him, I don't see any of that on this offense. Usually there's 1 or 2 targets on a passing playcall, if for whatever reason those guys don't get open, the play is screwed and now Kaepernick is running for his life. Its truly horrible offense.

I can't recall the last time that Kaep scrambled and had someone break off their route and come back for a first down reception. Cam had that luxury a couple of times tonight and that's all you need to extend that drive or kill off that D.

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:
I can't recall the last time that Kaep scrambled and had someone break off their route and come back for a first down reception. Cam had that luxury a couple of times tonight and that's all you need to extend that drive or kill off that D.

2 possibilities. Either Kaepernick is absolutely a moron that can barely tie his own shoes or the coaching staff, particularly the OC has no clue how to call or plan an NFL style offense.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
2 possibilities. Either Kaepernick is absolutely a moron that can barely tie his own shoes or the coaching staff, particularly the OC has no clue how to call or plan an NFL style offense.

running they are ok

the funny thing is they don't want to run when they should.

how you line up and run pistol against a team that practices against it every week is beyond arrogance and why we have 3 losses.

the passing offense is horrible because its big chunk or nothing. no underneath no intermediate nothing.

wasting talent and time.

its really simply what should happen but it won't so expect more of the same there's a reason that nobody hired him from us and a reason they'll let us keep him right here to mess up our chances

Just watch the Sunday night game and look at what Payton/Brees do together....geez.

I have been real critical of Roman since he has got here, but to be fair, Kap just put up a worst game than AS did in his first Career start. That is f**king pathetic. I expect more. Period.

It's a downright "offensive" offense... I drank too much koolaid, gave too much credit to Kap/Harbs/Roman. The bottom line is our defense will have to carry a poor offense into the playoffs, hopefully to another SB and win it this time. I might have a better chance at winning the lotto, however

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
They didn't plan well at WR, but what is the point, do they need more WR's to be blockers downfield or what? Its obvious they have no real intent to utilize anyone but VD and Boldin, defenses know this and they key in on those guys.

True. Harbaugh needs to make changes to his coaching staff. I'm ok with Roman and the WR coach leaving after this season. Roman can call some great run plays but when it comes to the passing game, its frustrating, especially against a very good defense. We need a new set of eyes who can better utilize the QB and WRs.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
running they are ok

the funny thing is they don't want to run when they should.

how you line up and run pistol against a team that practices against it every week is beyond arrogance and why we have 3 losses.

the passing offense is horrible because its big chunk or nothing. no underneath no intermediate nothing.

wasting talent and time.

its really simply what should happen but it won't so expect more of the same there's a reason that nobody hired him from us and a reason they'll let us keep him right here to mess up our chances

"75 formations" before snapping the ball

Originally posted by sacleads:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
They didn't plan well at WR, but what is the point, do they need more WR's to be blockers downfield or what? Its obvious they have no real intent to utilize anyone but VD and Boldin, defenses know this and they key in on those guys.

True. Harbaugh needs to make changes to his coaching staff. I'm ok with Roman and the WR coach leaving after this season. Roman can call some great run plays but when it comes to the passing game, its frustrating, especially against a very good defense. We need a new set of eyes who can better utilize the QB and WRs.

Agreed

Originally posted by sacleads:
True. Harbaugh needs to make changes to his coaching staff. I'm ok with Roman and the WR coach leaving after this season. Roman can call some great run plays but when it comes to the passing game, its frustrating, especially against a very good defense. We need a new set of eyes who can better utilize the QB and WRs.

This...and its not enough, this isn't Stanford, this isn't the PAC-12, its not sufficient to have an offensive coordinator that only excels in one part of the offense. Because of his lack of ability when it comes to calling a passing offense, this team goes into each game with a handicap in that regard and if its a top defense, they end up feasting on his utterly predictable playcalls.

We don't have our stud Delanie Walker

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Kaepernick can't see any more than 1 and only 1 WR or TE. Then he puts his head straight down to the ground, stops looking downfield, ignores option 2, 3, 4 and tries to run. Which is far less effective this year because D have guys watching for the Kaep run.

At this point he's really useless.

You pretty much nailed it.

First of all, it is already a known fact that teams scout Kap as a "one-read" QB as pointed out by Karlos Dansby when asked to differentiate between Wilson and Kap.

Kap has a tendency to only key in on 1 guy.

As such, he never spreads the ball around which means our secondary receivers are basically useless.

In doing so, none of our young receivers are ever given even half a chance to develop and improve before they all get cut in no time.

Anquan 64 targets, Marlon 4 targets and Jon 6 targets. Can you believe that ? In other words, if your name is not Anquan or Vernon, you are pretty much deemed to be s**te.

Bottomline, it just means the 9ers' passing game is crap and incredibly easy to shut down.

You do understand that this offense is designed this way - it was the same exact design when Alex Smith was here - the only difference is that he was a terrible scrambler so the coaches kept a RB in as a checkdown. That's been replaced - now the RB is kept in to block. So if it's a question of shutting down Kap, it also should be a question about the entire scheme/philosophy of this college offense.

No, I don't know is "designed" this way. But, let's just say if it is for the sake of discussion, then is obviously not working or at least Kap should be rushing much more. What I am saying is Kap needs to target mutiple receivers even if he is on the scramble. Otherwise why bother having any secondary receivers ?