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What is the real problem with this offensive offense?

What is the real problem with this offensive offense?

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
lol

The spin of the Zoners to put the blame on the coaching staff at misusing Kaep The guys that hand picked Kaep and moved up to drafted him are now misusing Kaep's talent. Well since Kaep isn't hitting your fantasy numbers, Roman and Harbaugh must be misusing Kaep. Holy s**t. I love the Zone


How is that spin? Is this is a quality NFL offense that is being called right now by the 49ers? I see better offensive playcalling from the Arizona Cardinals week in and week out. The 49ers have a dominant run-blocking line and a terrific RB, against lesser teams, the run and chuck it downfield approach works, against better teams, not so much. Where are the screens, the slants, the bootlets, the crossing patterns.....all the elements that a competent offense will find ways to utilize.


It's ignorant to suggest that Kaepernick solely is to blame for this when some of these same issues have been around for awhile. Why is that this offense continually struggles to hold up against heavy blitzing teams that cut off the run game? Since 2011 its been the same issue repeated and they still haven't adjusted to attack those kinds of defenses and back them off.
The REAL problem is fundementally grounded in the TYPE (anti-WCO) of offensive philosophy (non QB-friendly) this coaching staff adheres too...and HOW they currently run it (compartmentalized).

So really, the issue starts with that and then is reinforced by HaRoMan.

As a result, it affects CK's confidence in big-close games against good defenses (regression), the receivers including underutilization or non or mis-use of personnel and also, the offensive line.
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 12, 2013 at 11:24 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
The REAL problem is fundementally grounded in the TYPE (anti-WCO) of offensive philosophy (non QB-friendly) this coaching staff adheres too...and HOW they currently run it (compartmentalized).

So really, the issue starts with that and then is reinforced by HaRoMan.

As a result, it affects CK's confidence in big-close games against good defenses (regression), the receivers including underutilization or non or mis-use of personnel and also, the offensive line.

Once again, it seems like Harbaugh wants an offense centered around the run, with the QB making deep passes off of playaction to keep the defense back, its the sort of offense that used to be run by the Bears and the Colts when Harbaugh was with both teams, the issue is this, the 49ers have no real deep threats other than VD, an offensive line that struggles to pass block and a young QB whose confidence is shaken. Instead of 5-7 step drops and having him try to play "chuck and duck", make things easier for him, get him more options in the passing game, call screens, short quick slants, having him sprint out on a bootleg, let Kaepernick be Kaepernick.


This system is setup currently for a crusty veteran QB with a big arm, not a guy who has barely started a season's worth of games in the NFL. Go back to the offense they ran in 2011, force defenses to play honest, don't allow them to blitz so often without consequence, beat them up with the running game, screens, short passes, dink and dunk them and THEN go for the kill shot downfield when they've been softened up.



This offense couldn't be any further away from the WCO at this point, but it always wasn't like that, certainly not in 2011.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM ]
Originally posted by Eastcoastniner:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
lol

The spin of the Zoners to put the blame on the coaching staff at misusing Kaep The guys that hand picked Kaep and moved up to drafted him are now misusing Kaep's talent. Well since Kaep isn't hitting your fantasy numbers, Roman and Harbaugh must be misusing Kaep. Holy s**t. I love the Zone

you blame kaep for all of this?

Injuries and lack of receiver talent and inexperience of young Kaep. I don't think coaching staff has a major role in this. They are doing what they can with what they have.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Eastcoastniner:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
lol

The spin of the Zoners to put the blame on the coaching staff at misusing Kaep The guys that hand picked Kaep and moved up to drafted him are now misusing Kaep's talent. Well since Kaep isn't hitting your fantasy numbers, Roman and Harbaugh must be misusing Kaep. Holy s**t. I love the Zone

you blame kaep for all of this?

Injuries and lack of receiver talent and inexperience of young Kaep. I don't think coaching staff has a major role in this. They are doing what they can with what they have.

i agree with the injuries, lack of wr talent and inexperience of kaep...but the coaching staff is not utilizing all of our players and needs to be more creative passing and in the redzone stilllll
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
lol

The spin of the Zoners to put the blame on the coaching staff at misusing Kaep The guys that hand picked Kaep and moved up to drafted him are now misusing Kaep's talent. Well since Kaep isn't hitting your fantasy numbers, Roman and Harbaugh must be misusing Kaep. Holy s**t. I love the Zone

yes the same coaching staff that kept kyle williams in for half a season
the same coaching staff that has yet to use macdonald other than blocking get his feet wet in the system or even use him as a passing option in the red zone
the same coaching staff that decides that the only way to pass is to get the ball to vernon or boldin and everyone else isn't required?
the same coaching staff that couldn't figure out a way to get lamichael james into games for half of the season?
the same that stuck with kyle williams and then replaced him with anthony davis on kick returns.. anthony davis?

these same guys couldn't possibly be missuing kap? lol

ok buddy
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
lol

The spin of the Zoners to put the blame on the coaching staff at misusing Kaep The guys that hand picked Kaep and moved up to drafted him are now misusing Kaep's talent. Well since Kaep isn't hitting your fantasy numbers, Roman and Harbaugh must be misusing Kaep. Holy s**t. I love the Zone

yes the same coaching staff that kept kyle williams in for half a season
the same coaching staff that has yet to use macdonald other than blocking get his feet wet in the system or even use him as a passing option in the red zone
the same coaching staff that decides that the only way to pass is to get the ball to vernon or boldin and everyone else isn't required?
the same coaching staff that couldn't figure out a way to get lamichael james into games for half of the season?
the same that stuck with kyle williams and then replaced him with anthony davis on kick returns.. anthony davis?

these same guys couldn't possibly be missuing kap? lol

ok buddy

What's there to misuse Last year when Kaep came in as starter, they had already used his repertoire of his running ability. This year Kaep should be a bit more familiar and more involved in the passing game. But injuries plague our receiving core. We are seeing a young qb struggling to learn the game, yes he's still learning the game, with lesser receiving type of talent. They need a receiving group that has different type of talent combination. That should include-- speed, size, quickness, smart, young and veteran. Right now it's not complete. The passing offense is struggling because of these more than what the coaching staff is doing during the game.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
yes the same coaching staff that kept kyle williams in for half a season
the same coaching staff that has yet to use macdonald other than blocking get his feet wet in the system or even use him as a passing option in the red zone
the same coaching staff that decides that the only way to pass is to get the ball to vernon or boldin and everyone else isn't required?
the same coaching staff that couldn't figure out a way to get lamichael james into games for half of the season?
the same that stuck with kyle williams and then replaced him with anthony davis on kick returns.. anthony davis?

these same guys couldn't possibly be missuing kap? lol

ok buddy



You forgot.........the same coaching staff that inexplicably stops running the ball when Gore is averaging 7.5 yards a carry.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
What's there to misuse Last year when Kaep came in as starter, they had already used his repertoire of his running ability. This year Kaep should be a bit more familiar and more involved in the passing game. But injuries plague our receiving core. We are seeing a young qb struggling to learn the game, yes he's still learning the game, with lesser receiving type of talent. They need a receiving group that has different type of talent combination. That should include-- speed, size, quickness, smart, young and veteran. Right now it's not complete. The passing offense is struggling because of these more than what the coaching staff is doing during the game.

The passing offense is struggling primarily because they are running a slightly more creative variant of the Jimmy Raye offense at this point. The playcalling has become entire too predictable and rather than forcing defenses to change what they are doing, this offense is tailor-made to allow defense's like Carolina's to stay in their comfort zone and play the game they want it played.
Phoenix49ers.
Once again, it seems like Harbaugh wants an offense centered around the run, with the QB making deep passes off of playaction to keep the defense back, its the sort of offense that used to be run by the Bears and the Colts when Harbaugh was with both teams, the issue is this, the 49ers have no real deep threats other than VD, an offensive line that struggles to pass block and a young QB whose confidence is shaken. Instead of 5-7 step drops and having him try to play "chuck and duck", make things easier for him, get him more options in the passing game, call screens, short quick slants, having him sprint out on a bootleg, let Kaepernick be Kaepernick.

This system is setup currently for a crusty veteran QB with a big arm, not a guy who has barely started a season's worth of games in the NFL. Go back to the offense they ran in 2011, force defenses to play honest, don't allow them to blitz so often without consequence, beat them up with the running game, screens, short passes, dink and dunk them and THEN go for the kill shot downfield when they've been softened up.

This offense couldn't be any further away from the WCO at this point, but it always wasn't like that, certainly not in 2011.

This BIG TIME!

They ought to be sent to the supposed vault with the WCO film of the real WCO that Walsh made. They should be sent there every day until they start using it.

Personally, they just give it lip service. I don't think they let Kap near it to learn how Walsh taught how to throw a soft short pass.
Actually a lot of the problem with the offense is that Kap has favorite recievers soo it's not really a matter of other not getting open but really a matter of Kap having predetermined targets and hitting the open man. Also I've noticed that Kap hesitates to run...ALOT. He'll run towards the line of scrimmage with the ball up lookin up field instead just tuckin the ball and running for the first down. IMO, the attribute that makes guys like Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning so elite is that they spread the ball around and utilize the players on the field. Play callin is 2nd. By that I mean not utilizing players. Why don't we see LMJ in slot or gettin screens? Or Hunter getting screens. It's upsetting as a fan to see that we have weapons and we don't use them. With guys like KW and MM, we should have quick screens in the offense.
Originally posted by martysofresh:
Actually a lot of the problem with the offense is that Kap has favorite recievers soo it's not really a matter of other not getting open but really a matter of Kap having predetermined targets and hitting the open man. Also I've noticed that Kap hesitates to run...ALOT. He'll run towards the line of scrimmage with the ball up lookin up field instead just tuckin the ball and running for the first down. IMO, the attribute that makes guys like Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning so elite is that they spread the ball around and utilize the players on the field. Play callin is 2nd. By that I mean not utilizing players. Why don't we see LMJ in slot or gettin screens? Or Hunter getting screens. It's upsetting as a fan to see that we have weapons and we don't use them. With guys like KW and MM, we should have quick screens in the offense.

he let it rip with crabtree and several times threw him open that i can remember off the top. i realize our current group of pass catchers is not on crabs level but he simply has to be more open to just letting it rip and living with the results.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
What's there to misuse Last year when Kaep came in as starter, they had already used his repertoire of his running ability. This year Kaep should be a bit more familiar and more involved in the passing game. But injuries plague our receiving core. We are seeing a young qb struggling to learn the game, yes he's still learning the game, with lesser receiving type of talent. They need a receiving group that has different type of talent combination. That should include-- speed, size, quickness, smart, young and veteran. Right now it's not complete. The passing offense is struggling because of these more than what the coaching staff is doing during the game.

but if the passing game is struggling why don't they use the best available players to help the qb out? why don't they make macdonald and davis big targets, BOTH of them. the #1 thing everyone says is the tight end is the safety net ours are used for strictly deep passes and blocking no intermediate stuff to help him if nothing else is open.

we have quick wr's not fast we have agile shifty wr's why don't we make sure that they catch the ball immediately and put them in space to get yac. they can't get separation but they can break free on slants or out routes or curls which could set db's up to be used on double moves..

we have 3 running backs 2 of which would absolutely kill in the screen game or split wide quick pass in space game. but they are never there to help the qb. which is mind blowing considering how good our wr's have to block in order to even be on the field and play.

why do they continue to use miller our fullback as a passing option? he is literally taking passes away from people who could use them such as macdonald or badlwin people who are more valuable in the passing game.

why don't they just line up and run on people..no team has stopped it we've just went away from it.

and why don't they make adjustments?

if a team practices against the read option since training camp why run it on them like we did the panthers? if a team is blitzing you why don't we just change the plays to quick drops and quick hitting passes which were open. it was the exact game plan the rams used against us @ the rams last season and they didn't adjust then. didn't toss a screen to keep them honest, didn't stop sending kap into 7 step drops or shotgun passes where the routes were 15 yards minimum.
in a 1 point game with plenty of time left COMPLETELY abandoned the run.. which would have put us in field goal range more than once since it had put is in field goal range 2 times already...

there's so much more that they could do. that's not kap. if they were actually creative we had the talent even without crabtree and manningham to do SOMETHING
everyone can see kyle williams sucks but they continue to start him. that's arrogance and being stubborn. he can't get open, cannot catch when he is can't block can't run to his side and doesn't contribute on special teams but it took them half of a season to see this... HALF A SEASON WASTED taking snaps from people who are actually still going to be on the team. does that make sense?

kap is not perfect or anywhere near it. he's being taken through the ringer via media because of his play. but that's the easy way out. we're simply not running an nfl offense passing wise going against nfl defenses. we haven't even run the type of passing offense we ran against green bay since green bay.. i could see if we kept doing that and it hadn't been working but we haven't even gone back to THAT through 8 more games.

they are ruining a young qb who has all the potential in the world being conservative for their OWN reasons. i don't buy a guy that works as hard as kap who could come in and read progressions which they praised him for, worked since 1 week after the super bowl has just totally forgotten how to do it. with all the praise they give him and say the entire playbook is open then the only conclusion is they close it themselves.

ruin the qb and the defensive efforts being stubborn if they want to.
Originally posted by crabman82:
he let it rip with crabtree and several times threw him open that i can remember off the top. i realize our current group of pass catchers is not on crabs level but he simply has to be more open to just letting it rip and living with the results.

he showed he trusts boldin and he trusts davis. he has shown he trusts badlwin too he does not trust williams williams started for 8 games so literally there were only 2 targets out there for him.

last game he didn't complete a lot of passes but he did complete 3 to boldin and 3 to manningham because he trusts them he trusts macdonald ive seen him on a scramble drill throw it to him when that option was available.

he just didn't trust or like kyle williams and that's who they kept trotting out there. so when numbers come out about spreading it around.
1 we don't run 3wr sets often and 2 the second wr for 8 games was kyle williams which basically means that he has 1 wr out there.
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by crabman82:
he let it rip with crabtree and several times threw him open that i can remember off the top. i realize our current group of pass catchers is not on crabs level but he simply has to be more open to just letting it rip and living with the results.

he showed he trusts boldin and he trusts davis. he has shown he trusts badlwin too he does not trust williams williams started for 8 games so literally there were only 2 targets out there for him.

last game he didn't complete a lot of passes but he did complete 3 to boldin and 3 to manningham because he trusts them he trusts macdonald ive seen him on a scramble drill throw it to him when that option was available.

he just didn't trust or like kyle williams and that's who they kept trotting out there. so when numbers come out about spreading it around.
1 we don't run 3wr sets often and 2 the second wr for 8 games was kyle williams which basically means that he has 1 wr out there.

bottom line is he has to be smrater, if hes not going to throw it to whatever wr for whatever reason then he has to toss it away out of bounds and quit taking dumb sacks.