SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS SEATTLE SEAHAWKS GAMEDAY THREAD (WEEK 14)

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Just was watching some of the coaches film and on the play in the first quarter with about a minute left where Crabtree caught the pass and only got one foot in bounds, he absolutely killed Sherman on the route. It was about a 12 yard out route, he turned Sherman around and made Sherman fall on his back. Really s**tted on him.

crabs is a beast. i dont know how he does it but hes the shiftyest receiver in the league at his size

Yeah he is. I want to see him start dominating and become a top 5 receiver in this league.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by sanfran49:
huh? ill take crabs over disck anyday but you cant say Sherman is a system guy. As much as he is hated, hes a beast! Plus that whole 6th round this guy and tpp ten talent that guy, thats all garbage. So Tom Brady is a system guy?

Sherman is trash can talent just like most of SEA DBs not named Earl Thomas. There is no miss on Sherman. Pete got those guys because he had a vision and a system in which he would use long DBs to jam hold tackle and grab WRs. Sherman and Browner fit right into his philosophy. Sure they will get called some but more than not they won't and there you have it. The leagues number one secondary filled with trash can talent. 31 teams didn't miss on these guys but credit to Pete that he has a system they can succeed in. Tom Brady is a HOF but time will tell on Sherman. I for one believe that he is a fad. Put him on another team and he gets shoved around and abused just like Boldin did to him Sunday. Sooner or later teams will discover that if the refs will hold the whistle beyond 5 yards that they have to instruct the WRs to bring the physicality to the DB all game long until they fold. Trash can talent. The comparison I will give Sherman to Brady (ridiculous I am even discussing this) is that they were both late round picks they both have performed well and it is because of film study and their intelligence. The problem is that the QB can survive for the most part by study and understanding of the game but at DB there is an athletic component that you must have or eventually it catches up to you. Garbage pail talent won't cut it in the long run but thankfully for him he has the Seahawks and Pete has made him a star. I just wonder how long this will last

This. His success hinges on his ability to hold and grab guys. He has very poor fluidity in his hips and bad change of direction skills, which is what you NEED as a corner. He makes up for this with his long arms by reaching out and grabbing the receiver whenever he makes his cut. Their secondary is a bunch of late round picks and undrafted free agents and somehow they became elite almost instantly coming into the league? It definitely is the system in how they are being coached to hold and grab. Refs can't call it every play man.

Originally posted by sanfran49:
huh? ill take crabs over disck anyday but you cant say Sherman is a system guy. As much as he is hated, hes a beast! Plus that whole 6th round this guy and tpp ten talent that guy, thats all garbage. So Tom Brady is a system guy?

He was talking about athleticism. QBs succeed using intangibles...mostly mental stuff you can't scout.

First round talent is about the good players who have superior athleticism.


All things being equal you take the superior athlete

Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Pillbusta might be on to something. I've always wondered how Seattle's DBs would fair on other teams. I think Earl Thomas and Richard are legit. Not sure about the rest of them. Browner will be a FA next year and I'm sure some dumb team will throw tons of cash his way but I think he's a product of Seattle's system (as are most of Seattle's DBs).

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
This. His success hinges on his ability to hold and grab guys. He has very poor fluidity in his hips and bad change of direction skills, which is what you NEED as a corner. He makes up for this with his long arms by reaching out and grabbing the receiver whenever he makes his cut. Their secondary is a bunch of late round picks and undrafted free agents and somehow they became elite almost instantly coming into the league? It definitely is the system in how they are being coached to hold and grab. Refs can't call it every play man.

Originally posted by Tigerlaw:
He was talking about athleticism. QBs succeed using intangibles...mostly mental stuff you can't scout.

First round talent is about the good players who have superior athleticism.


All things being equal you take the superior athlete

Thank you guys. I am trying not to be a straight up homer but it is just what I see as well as coaching friends of mine that are fans of other teams. Sherman is All Pro and he has performed at an elite level but my disclaimer is that he is doing it in SEA under Carroll with a system designed for his players success. It is a blatant manipulation of the rules and taking advantage of the referees handicap in not being able to flag every coverage penalty but it has worked for them. Just as PWillis52 said, the change of direction and the lack of hip fluidity is compensated for by the grabs, shoves, tackling and holds. If I can't turn pivot and explode with you I will just impede you from doing so as well. SEA DBs have mastered this and they have the top secondary in the league because of it. I am just curious to see how they would perform elsewhere under different circumstances

So.. not going to name names or anything, but weren't there a boatload of people saying: "If Colin has anything like the 140 yard, 1 TD, 1 INT performance at home against the Seahawks" like we had last time with our other QB, "we are going to lose for sure."

Colin completed 51% of his passes with 175 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT and a 65.7 QBRating. It's not all about the final numbers folks. Like I and many others tried to get across -- the numbers should have been expected to be a little off, but he needed to manage the game and not make costly mistakes. He did what it took to win. Sure, we all wish it would've been way better, but he did enough to get the W.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by sanfran49:

huh? ill take crabs over disck anyday but you cant say Sherman is a system guy. As much as he is hated, hes a beast! Plus that whole 6th round this guy and tpp ten talent that guy, thats all garbage. So Tom Brady is a system guy?

Sherman is trash can talent just like most of SEA DBs not named Earl Thomas. There is no miss on Sherman. Pete got those guys because he had a vision and a system in which he would use long DBs to jam hold tackle and grab WRs. Sherman and Browner fit right into his philosophy. Sure they will get called some but more than not they won't and there you have it. The leagues number one secondary filled with trash can talent. 31 teams didn't miss on these guys but credit to Pete that he has a system they can succeed in. Tom Brady is a HOF but time will tell on Sherman. I for one believe that he is a fad. Put him on another team and he gets shoved around and abused just like Boldin did to him Sunday. Sooner or later teams will discover that if the refs will hold the whistle beyond 5 yards that they have to instruct the WRs to bring the physicality to the DB all game long until they fold. Trash can talent. The comparison I will give Sherman to Brady (ridiculous I am even discussing this) is that they were both late round picks they both have performed well and it is because of film study and their intelligence. The problem is that the QB can survive for the most part by study and understanding of the game but at DB there is an athletic component that you must have or eventually it catches up to you. Garbage pail talent won't cut it in the long run but thankfully for him he has the Seahawks and Pete has made him a star. I just wonder how long this will last

This. His success hinges on his ability to hold and grab guys. He has very poor fluidity in his hips and bad change of direction skills, which is what you NEED as a corner. He makes up for this with his long arms by reaching out and grabbing the receiver whenever he makes his cut. Their secondary is a bunch of late round picks and undrafted free agents and somehow they became elite almost instantly coming into the league? It definitely is the system in how they are being coached to hold and grab. Refs can't call it every play man.

This is what I've been suspecting as well. Couldn't have said it better myself. Exactly why I wouldn't touch any of Seattle's DBs (not named Thomas or Sherm), let alone pay them big time premier DB money because I suspect once they go to a team that actually asks them to play the CB position that doesn't rely heavily on tugging and grabbing the WR to hide or mask their deficiencies, they will be burnt toast. Even Sherm, who I believe is a legit CB in his own right, I think he's best exactly where he's at. I don't think he'd be as successful elsewhere as he is now (although I believe he would be solid). Earl Thomas is the only one completely and fully worth a damn - he has incredible coverage ability and vision to top it off with great athleticism. He also probably makes the other DBs around him look better. I see a bit of him in Eric Reid's game and that is a compliment to Reid.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Pillbusta might be on to something. I've always wondered how Seattle's DBs would fair on other teams. I think Earl Thomas and Richard are legit. Not sure about the rest of them. Browner will be a FA next year and I'm sure some dumb team will throw tons of cash his way but I think he's a product of Seattle's system (as are most of Seattle's DBs).

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
This. His success hinges on his ability to hold and grab guys. He has very poor fluidity in his hips and bad change of direction skills, which is what you NEED as a corner. He makes up for this with his long arms by reaching out and grabbing the receiver whenever he makes his cut. Their secondary is a bunch of late round picks and undrafted free agents and somehow they became elite almost instantly coming into the league? It definitely is the system in how they are being coached to hold and grab. Refs can't call it every play man.

Originally posted by Tigerlaw:
He was talking about athleticism. QBs succeed using intangibles...mostly mental stuff you can't scout.

First round talent is about the good players who have superior athleticism.


All things being equal you take the superior athlete

Thank you guys. I am trying not to be a straight up homer but it is just what I see as well as coaching friends of mine that are fans of other teams. Sherman is All Pro and he has performed at an elite level but my disclaimer is that he is doing it in SEA under Carroll with a system designed for his players success. It is a blatant manipulation of the rules and taking advantage of the referees handicap in not being able to flag every coverage penalty but it has worked for them. Just as PWillis52 said, the change of direction and the lack of hip fluidity is compensated for by the grabs, shoves, tackling and holds. If I can't turn pivot and explode with you I will just impede you from doing so as well. SEA DBs have mastered this and they have the top secondary in the league because of it. I am just curious to see how they would perform elsewhere under different circumstances

Originally posted by NeonNiner:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by sanfran49:
huh? ill take crabs over disck anyday but you cant say Sherman is a system guy. As much as he is hated, hes a beast! Plus that whole 6th round this guy and tpp ten talent that guy, thats all garbage. So Tom Brady is a system guy?

Sherman is trash can talent just like most of SEA DBs not named Earl Thomas. There is no miss on Sherman. Pete got those guys because he had a vision and a system in which he would use long DBs to jam hold tackle and grab WRs. Sherman and Browner fit right into his philosophy. Sure they will get called some but more than not they won't and there you have it. The leagues number one secondary filled with trash can talent. 31 teams didn't miss on these guys but credit to Pete that he has a system they can succeed in. Tom Brady is a HOF but time will tell on Sherman. I for one believe that he is a fad. Put him on another team and he gets shoved around and abused just like Boldin did to him Sunday. Sooner or later teams will discover that if the refs will hold the whistle beyond 5 yards that they have to instruct the WRs to bring the physicality to the DB all game long until they fold. Trash can talent. The comparison I will give Sherman to Brady (ridiculous I am even discussing this) is that they were both late round picks they both have performed well and it is because of film study and their intelligence. The problem is that the QB can survive for the most part by study and understanding of the game but at DB there is an athletic component that you must have or eventually it catches up to you. Garbage pail talent won't cut it in the long run but thankfully for him he has the Seahawks and Pete has made him a star. I just wonder how long this will last

This. His success hinges on his ability to hold and grab guys. He has very poor fluidity in his hips and bad change of direction skills, which is what you NEED as a corner. He makes up for this with his long arms by reaching out and grabbing the receiver whenever he makes his cut. Their secondary is a bunch of late round picks and undrafted free agents and somehow they became elite almost instantly coming into the league? It definitely is the system in how they are being coached to hold and grab. Refs can't call it every play man.

This is what I've been suspecting as well. Couldn't have said it better myself. Exactly why I wouldn't touch any of Seattle's DBs (not named Thomas or Sherm), let alone pay them big time premier DB money because I suspect once they go to a team that actually asks them to play the CB position that doesn't rely heavily on tugging and grabbing the WR to hide or mask their deficiencies, they will be burnt toast. Even Sherm, who I believe is a legit CB in his own right, I think he's best exactly where he's at. I don't think he'd be as successful elsewhere as he is now (although I believe he would be solid). Earl Thomas is the only one completely and fully worth a damn - he has incredible coverage ability and vision to top it off with great athleticism. He also probably makes the other DBs around him look better. I see a bit of him in Eric Reid's game and that is a compliment to Reid.

Yup exactly. The true baller in that secondary is Earl Thomas. This is not 49er fans being biased and hating on their corners because their loud mouth arrogant punks. This is us objectively speaking and talking about what we see with our own eyes, and what a lot of scouts saw when these corners came out. Sherman is stiff in the hips and plays rather high up. He has good ball skills and is smart and does a lot of film study, but he simply doesn't have the necessary athleticism and change of direction skills to be a legit corner within the rules. You can see the huge difference between him and Revis. Revis can lock guys down legally. Sherman just grabs and tugs the jersey almost always when the receiver makes a cut. It's labeled as him being 'physical' but really it's him and seattle knowing the refs can't call flags on them if they're doing it practically every play.

This isn't very significant but I also I remember watching Richard Sherman in the senior bowl and seeing him get toasted on a double move for a touchdown. I remember thinking that guy really blows. Do not want. lol. That was well before we all came to know Richard Sherman for the d******d that he is.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
So.. not going to name names or anything, but weren't there a boatload of people saying: "If Colin has anything like the 140 yard, 1 TD, 1 INT performance at home against the Seahawks" like we had last time with our other QB, "we are going to lose for sure."

Colin completed 51% of his passes with 175 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT and a 65.7 QBRating. It's not all about the final numbers folks. Like I and many others tried to get across -- the numbers should have been expected to be a little off, but he needed to manage the game and not make costly mistakes. He did what it took to win. Sure, we all wish it would've been way better, but he did enough to get the W.

His rating was 67.5 and he rushed for 31 yards running helped, especially that last first down conversion. Kap showed some nuts making tough throws down field and tight throws into converge. 199 total yards and a TD were only good enough because the defense and special teams (minus the Tate return) played lights out football.

We could of won by more if Kap had just a little more experience. Its still pretty good and did what 11 other teams this season could not, and that is to beat SEA.

We would of lost if the defense gaffed up or the special teams made some more errors.