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I knew our passing game wasn't the greatest but I didnt know we were DEAD LAST in the

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The title of this thread is so wrong in terms of accuracy because we are only dead last in total yards but are very competitive with passing efficiency stats and a lot of other passing stats.

Agreed, that was debunked a while back.

We are basically, the Alex Smith offense again.

Nah, it had nothing to do with Alex...this is just the Harbaugh offense dating back to Bo Schembechler. And it's working in today's "pass happy" NFL!

Ha! Waaay better than an "Alex Smith Offense". We are actually hitting big plays and scoring points due directly to that. Kap is also throwing impressively in tight windows.

What we need to do is actually do throw some more checkdowns. Not for TOP or moving the chains, but to show defenses they MUST spread horizontally also when they play us and when they view the film.

CK certainly can bring more explosiveness to the table (and versatility). He CAN be used heavily in the 20+ yard passsing category, CAN be a weapon with his running ability, IS more willing to throw into triple coverage and IS more mobile. Ironically, all those can work against him as well which is expected of a young QB coming into his own. Alex will spread the ball around much more, is much better pre-snap, has much more experience and autonomy under Reid and will not turn the ball over. And like CK, all these attributes can work against him too (not that he CAN'T lead a spead-focused team) if playing behind.

Either way, the element of "explosiveness" does not diminish in my mind, the fact that both QB are what the pundits are calling "game managers" right now b/c they aren't Coach-like QB's where the offenses (esp. the passing game) are centered around them.

In our offense, CK's passing game (pre-determined, one-read college passing attack) is nothing more than an extension of the run game and the plays Roman dials up. And there is nothing wrong with that...right now.

CK CAN? He already has and it directly points to the points scored and yards per attempt considering the low number of attempts. Checking down is fine, but it is not helping KC's offense. Kap's style only has 1 more INT than Alex. These safer check-down type of plays are also not helping KC QB with rating.

Honestly, checking down more holds less importance than taking more deep shots. Taking deeps shots pushes a defense back, which is the entire prupose of an offense. It gets a defense playing backwards. Too many checkdowns gets a defense to move up and play downhill which also clogs the run. It's good if the QB is willing to then punish the defense with deep shots, but if that doesn't happen, then it is hurting a team.

Getting back to the point. Kap may be "called" a game manager, but he is not because he doesn't concede often. He takes risky shots...well...probably risky for some QB's but less risky for him.
That's going to change w/Manningham, then Crabtree coming back. But, Kap doesn't need to throw for 300 yds + a game for us to win. That's the beauty of a balanced attack...Gore/Hunter doing their thing, then go play-action for big gainers. Throw in some ST & defensive turnovers and you get a short field to score. Stats can be misleading...really, the BL is 5 straight wins and more coming with the talent being added.
Kap is ranked 13th in attempts to TD ratio. If we do TD's per completion, he is ranked 11th. This points directly to big play rather than "manager".
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The title of this thread is so wrong in terms of accuracy because we are only dead last in total yards but are very competitive with passing efficiency stats and a lot of other passing stats.

Agreed, that was debunked a while back.

We are basically, the Alex Smith offense again.

Nah, it had nothing to do with Alex...this is just the Harbaugh offense dating back to Bo Schembechler. And it's working in today's "pass happy" NFL!

Ha! Waaay better than an "Alex Smith Offense". We are actually hitting big plays and scoring points due directly to that. Kap is also throwing impressively in tight windows.

What we need to do is actually do throw some more checkdowns. Not for TOP or moving the chains, but to show defenses they MUST spread horizontally also when they play us and when they view the film.

Hell yes. I alluded to this in other threads too. The best thing an offense can do to help itself is force the defense to feel as though it has to defend the entire field, length and width. As soon as Gore/LMJ/Hunter get some passes to the flats, this will make the LBs more aware of that area of the field. Then Vance and VD can work the middle of the field with a bit more breathing room.

A solid first down pass play would be to pass to the flat for 5 yards. This does what was described above and sets up a nice 2nd and 5 which forces defenses to play pass and run equally.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
That's going to change w/Manningham, then Crabtree coming back. But, Kap doesn't need to throw for 300 yds + a game for us to win. That's the beauty of a balanced attack...Gore/Hunter doing their thing, then go play-action for big gainers. Throw in some ST & defensive turnovers and you get a short field to score. Stats can be misleading...really, the BL is 5 straight wins and more coming with the talent being added.

This is eactly right...our play action passes and explosive plays are predicated on the run game; the passing game is an extension of the run game with the ABILITY to put up 400+ yards if we need to. The past 5 games, with defensive TD's, great ST, TO's setting up short fields, etc. I wouldn't say our offense has been explosive but it has been efficient, consistent and putting teams away early.

Carolina will be a real test this week as to our passing game...
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The title of this thread is so wrong in terms of accuracy because we are only dead last in total yards but are very competitive with passing efficiency stats and a lot of other passing stats.

Agreed, that was debunked a while back.

We are basically, the Alex Smith offense again.

Nah, it had nothing to do with Alex...this is just the Harbaugh offense dating back to Bo Schembechler. And it's working in today's "pass happy" NFL!

Ha! Waaay better than an "Alex Smith Offense". We are actually hitting big plays and scoring points due directly to that. Kap is also throwing impressively in tight windows.

What we need to do is actually do throw some more checkdowns. Not for TOP or moving the chains, but to show defenses they MUST spread horizontally also when they play us and when they view the film.

Hell yes. I alluded to this in other threads too. The best thing an offense can do to help itself is force the defense to feel as though it has to defend the entire field, length and width. As soon as Gore/LMJ/Hunter get some passes to the flats, this will make the LBs more aware of that area of the field. Then Vance and VD can work the middle of the field with a bit more breathing room.

A solid first down pass play would be to pass to the flat for 5 yards. This does what was described above and sets up a nice 2nd and 5 which forces defenses to play pass and run equally.

Soooooooooo agree! Spread the wealth!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The title of this thread is so wrong in terms of accuracy because we are only dead last in total yards but are very competitive with passing efficiency stats and a lot of other passing stats.

Agreed, that was debunked a while back.

We are basically, the Alex Smith offense again.

Nah, it had nothing to do with Alex...this is just the Harbaugh offense dating back to Bo Schembechler. And it's working in today's "pass happy" NFL!

Ha! Waaay better than an "Alex Smith Offense". We are actually hitting big plays and scoring points due directly to that. Kap is also throwing impressively in tight windows.

What we need to do is actually do throw some more checkdowns. Not for TOP or moving the chains, but to show defenses they MUST spread horizontally also when they play us and when they view the film.

Hell yes. I alluded to this in other threads too. The best thing an offense can do to help itself is force the defense to feel as though it has to defend the entire field, length and width. As soon as Gore/LMJ/Hunter get some passes to the flats, this will make the LBs more aware of that area of the field. Then Vance and VD can work the middle of the field with a bit more breathing room.

A solid first down pass play would be to pass to the flat for 5 yards. This does what was described above and sets up a nice 2nd and 5 which forces defenses to play pass and run equally.

Soooooooooo agree! Spread the wealth!

As long as it doesn't reduce our explosive plays. Hell, If a team refuses to come up, I don't mind running the ball every play as long as we are getting 5 a pop.
  • Antix
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Originally posted by thl408:
Hell yes. I alluded to this in other threads too. The best thing an offense can do to help itself is force the defense to feel as though it has to defend the entire field, length and width. As soon as Gore/LMJ/Hunter get some passes to the flats, this will make the LBs more aware of that area of the field. Then Vance and VD can work the middle of the field with a bit more breathing room.

A solid first down pass play would be to pass to the flat for 5 yards. This does what was described above and sets up a nice 2nd and 5 which forces defenses to play pass and run equally.

This is one of my favorite plays in all of football.

5 yards on first down is such a great thing to have. 2nd and 5 and 3rd and 1 is such an advantage to have. It sets you up to take shots down field, the whole playbook is open and allows field position control.

Also, Gore out of the backfield, catching a pass and getting his body turned upfield with a bit of steam is a TOUGH thing for a secondary to deal with. He is still shifty and elusive with power and tough to take down in the open field. We should be doing this once a drive imo. I want the defense to start having to account for RBs and FBs.
Originally posted by Joecool:
CK CAN? He already has and it directly points to the points scored and yards per attempt considering the low number of attempts. Checking down is fine, but it is not helping KC's offense. Kap's style only has 1 more INT than Alex. These safer check-down type of plays are also not helping KC QB with rating.

Honestly, checking down more holds less importance than taking more deep shots. Taking deeps shots pushes a defense back, which is the entire prupose of an offense. It gets a defense playing backwards. Too many checkdowns gets a defense to move up and play downhill which also clogs the run. It's good if the QB is willing to then punish the defense with deep shots, but if that doesn't happen, then it is hurting a team.

Getting back to the point. Kap may be "called" a game manager, but he is not because he doesn't concede often. He takes risky shots...well...probably risky for some QB's but less risky for him.

I see; I think we may just have a bit different definition of "game manager." I always hated that term anyhow. Nobody is better than CK in the intermediate passing game; I think he is tops in 20+ as well. He obviously is getting better in the short touch pass game and still has a ways to go on deeper passes that rquire some arch, leading, etc. But man, when CK is on, he is unstoppable and there will be a day when he not only puts it all together but puts it together consistently. I certainly don't fault him for not spreading it around as I think that is more of a product of the play calling and trust with anyone not named VD or Boldin. That said, I don't think CK would give a #$%^&*...he'd love to pass to a guy like Baldwin and get him into the mix, McDonald, James, etc. But the coaches trust Miller more right now and they obviously, are quick to activate Mario/Michael for this very reason as well IMHO.
Error
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 5, 2013 at 1:57 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Error

Totally! The good thing is, Kap can also handle 3rd and longs which allows Roman to be more creative on 1st and 2nds.
Originally posted by Antix:
Originally posted by thl408:
Hell yes. I alluded to this in other threads too. The best thing an offense can do to help itself is force the defense to feel as though it has to defend the entire field, length and width. As soon as Gore/LMJ/Hunter get some passes to the flats, this will make the LBs more aware of that area of the field. Then Vance and VD can work the middle of the field with a bit more breathing room.

A solid first down pass play would be to pass to the flat for 5 yards. This does what was described above and sets up a nice 2nd and 5 which forces defenses to play pass and run equally.

This is one of my favorite plays in all of football.

5 yards on first down is such a great thing to have. 2nd and 5 and 3rd and 1 is such an advantage to have. It sets you up to take shots down field, the whole playbook is open and allows field position control.

Also, Gore out of the backfield, catching a pass and getting his body turned upfield with a bit of steam is a TOUGH thing for a secondary to deal with. He is still shifty and elusive with power and tough to take down in the open field. We should be doing this once a drive imo. I want the defense to start having to account for RBs and FBs.

First down production as I've highlighted for several years here, is EVERYTHING to our offense. It allows Roman to stay with the script and use all the plays in his game plan. If we get 4+ yards on first down, we are unstoppable. But often times, poor play calling and execution has us in 2nd and 10 or even 15+. THAT plays right into any DC's hands!
Originally posted by Joecool:
Totally! The good thing is, Kap can also handle 3rd and longs which allows Roman to be more creative on 1st and 2nds.

That's a good way of looking at it as well. This is an area we have improved (I believe) over the past 5 games or so. It's nice to know we're not totally screwed if we DON'T get 4+ yards on first down.
They are saving things for the playoffs.

No need to hand them film study in the regular season if you are blowing people out running the ball and passing conservatively.

This team doesn't care about your fantasy league stats.

They like wins and surprising people in the playoffs.

Great, great coaching.
Total Offense, like Total Defense is a flawed measure.