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2013 - Week 8: Thoughts after rewatching the game.

Thanks marvin, nice summary. I am kinda like BigDaddy on roman(but it could be JH), not so much with a trick play, but not incorporating the unused guys on O....as NC said elsewhere, "Where the hell are they". And that is my question too. Against a grossly overmatched team, what a great time to throw to vance and Baldwin and see how those guys do when we play one weak sister after another. There will come a time when Vernon is blanketed, same for #81, and we will need vance and Baldwin. Why didn't JH use those guys this game to see what they had? Instead we use a trick play. I just find that odd...and not finding out if vance or Baldwin are great pass catchers? I really don't get that one.

On the point of crushing weak opponents, true we didn't do that in last two yrs. I guess it's the killer instinct. So good on that score. But not using weak sister opponents to see what LMJ or vance or Baldwin can do....even if against lesser opponents....that one I don't get.

As to your point on Kyle, I felt exactly like you, wanting the kid to do well...but he just hasn't. Yet he keeps getting and dropping passes, makes bad decisions, and basically is playing himself right off the team. Marvin, you wouldn't have an explanation for that would you? ie, why he is still playing and either hunter or vance, or Baldwin or LMJ are not getting his chances?
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Thanks marvin, nice summary. I am kinda like BigDaddy on roman(but it could be JH), not so much with a trick play, but not incorporating the unused guys on O....as NC said elsewhere, "Where the hell are they". And that is my question too. Against a grossly overmatched team, what a great time to throw to vance and Baldwin and see how those guys do when we play one weak sister after another. There will come a time when Vernon is blanketed, same for #81, and we will need vance and Baldwin. Why didn't JH use those guys this game to see what they had? Instead we use a trick play. I just find that odd...and not finding out if vance or Baldwin are great pass catchers? I really don't get that one.

On the point of crushing weak opponents, true we didn't do that in last two yrs. I guess it's the killer instinct. So good on that score. But not using weak sister opponents to see what LMJ or vance or Baldwin can do....even if against lesser opponents....that one I don't get.

As to your point on Kyle, I felt exactly like you, wanting the kid to do well...but he just hasn't. Yet he keeps getting and dropping passes, makes bad decisions, and basically is playing himself right off the team. Marvin, you wouldn't have an explanation for that would you? ie, why he is still playing and either hunter or vance, or Baldwin or LMJ are not getting his chances?

Agreed. It is up to Roman and Harbaugh to script these guys into the offense. The last few games this problem could have been moderated considerably if not solved. Just in time for getting ready for NO.
Originally posted by kray28:
I think the 5-0 is great...I wouldn't have it any other way...but it's a mirage. The only team we've played that was supposed to be good was Houston...and they suck now. So to your point about not needing Aldon...we don't need Aldon to beat the Rams or the Jags. We do need him to beat the Saints.

Also I think our next game against Carolina shouldn't be be taken for granted. Cam Newton is playing well, and the Panthers are decent team that's beating teams they're supposed to beat and giving good ones a run for their money too. I hope the Niners don't look past them to the Saints. I also hope that Aldon is back for this game as well.


Totally disagree about the mirage.

No, the teams they've been playing aren't great...but there aren't many great teams in the NFL. You play the games on your schedule. Good teams beat the teams they are supposed to beat. That's what they are doing...by an average margin of victory of 22 points....and even then there are several late garbage time TDs they've given up so that 22 point margin is better than we think. We are also doing this without Aldon, Crab, Manningham, and a completely healthy Vernon or Willis.

That's nothing to sneeze at.

Still....as you said, we need Aldon back in a big way if want to have any chance at homefield advantage.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Oct 29, 2013 at 8:31 PM ]
Like Marvin said we took care of the bad teams and we blew most of them out. We gave up a late 8 points to Rams, 7 to Titans, 7 to Jaguars from a Gore fumble, Cardinals can't remember. That being said I don't think we are hitting our peak yet especially in the pass game but I don't think anyone can say we aren't playing better than we did week 2 and 3 even if you put aside the bad teams. The OL is playing better, run game is better, penalties are better, st is better, pass defense is better, pass game is a little better (VD doing better, Miller is better), Kap's throwing better and doesn't seem as hesitant to run.

One thing that might not have improved is run defense which is about the same, maybe better. Dorsey seems to be better than Williams though but no doubt we could have used Williams at DE when we were down to Dobbs and TJE both playing. The other thing that hasn't gotten better is the pass rush but of course when you lose Aldon that happens. We have blitzed when needed to make up for it though. I don't think we felt the need to blitz the Titans and Jaguars, we did fine without the pressure. Skuta and Lemonier seem to be dong well and at least Lemonier is getting time. They seem to be holding up against the run and getting some pressure (at times) although not finishing with sacks. Seems like our entire defense minus Aldon gets pressure just can't finish with sacks consistently. Ray, Ahmad, Lemonier, Justin (recently)... I think we run in streaks a bit. Some games we are consistent getting sacks or pressure other games we go in stretches where we don't get any. Still as good as Ray and Ahmad are all around I wish they could finish with sacks more. Aldon from the get go showed he could finish and gets sacks. Right from the get go, sure some where coverage sacks but he just showed the knack for getting them. Kind of like how some guys get ints even if they aren't earned and they are just in the right place at the right time
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 29, 2013 at 11:49 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Like Marvin said we took care of the bad teams and we blew most of them out. We gave up a late 8 points to Rams, 7 to Titans, 7 to Jaguars from a Gore fumble, Cardinals can't remember. That being said I don't think we are hitting our peak yet especially in the pass game but I don't think anyone can say we aren't playing better than we did week 2 and 3 even if you put aside the bad teams. The OL is playing better, run game is better, penalties are better, st is better, pass defense is better, pass game is a little better (VD doing better, Miller is better), Kap's throwing better and doesn't seem as hesitant to run.

One thing that might not have improved is run defense which is about the same, maybe better. Dorsey seems to be better than Williams though but no doubt we could have used Williams at DE when we were down to Dobbs and TJE both playing. The other thing that hasn't gotten better is the pass rush but of course when you lose Aldon that happens. We have blitzed when needed to make up for it though. I don't think we felt the need to blitz the Titans and Jaguars, we did fine without the pressure. Skuta and Lemonier seem to be dong well and at least Lemonier is getting time. They seem to be holding up against the run and getting some pressure (at times) although not finishing with sacks. Seems like our entire defense minus Aldon gets pressure just can't finish with sacks consistently. Ray, Ahmad, Lemonier, Justin (recently)... I think we run in streaks a bit. Some games we are consistent getting sacks or pressure other games we go in stretches where we don't get any. Still as good as Ray and Ahmad are all around I wish they could finish with sacks more. Aldon from the get go showed he could finish and gets sacks. Right from the get go, sure some where coverage sacks but he just showed the knack for getting them. Kind of like how some guys get ints even if they aren't earned and they are just in the right place at the right time


It was actually 14 late points to the Titans.
I don't buy the mirage either. Seattle nearly lost to a very weak opponent. Their only saving grace was two interceptions and one long pass play that accounted for well over half the total passing yards.

Seattle has more to worry about then we do.
Originally posted by kingairta:
I don't buy the mirage either. Seattle nearly lost to a very weak opponent. Their only saving grace was two interceptions and one long pass play that accounted for well over half the total passing yards.

Seattle has more to worry about then we do.

I wouldn't go that far.

They are still 1 game up and have beaten us. We HAVE to win against them in December to get the division. They can lose it and it's still a split. After that they get NO at home while we play them on the road.

Seattle has a better shot at the division from a scheduling perspective.

If the Niners win out tho and Seattle only loses to SF, we still win the division tho based on our Strength of Schedule....unless a few teams records completely flip going forward. Both teams will have lost to the Colts and to each other so the only diff is that the Niners got the Packers and Redkins while they got the Vikings and Giants.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by kingairta:
I don't buy the mirage either. Seattle nearly lost to a very weak opponent. Their only saving grace was two interceptions and one long pass play that accounted for well over half the total passing yards.

Seattle has more to worry about then we do.

I wouldn't go that far.

They are still 1 game up and have beaten us. We HAVE to win against them in December to get the division. They can lose it and it's still a split. After that they get NO at home while we play them on the road.

Seattle has a better shot at the division from a scheduling perspective.

If the Niners win out tho and Seattle only loses to SF, we still win the division tho based on our Strength of Schedule....unless a few teams records completely flip going forward. Both teams will have lost to the Colts and to each other so the only diff is that the Niners got the Packers and Redkins while they got the Vikings and Giants.


I agree, but I do think Seattle will lose a couple more games. I think NO will beat them at home. The Saints offense can score enough points to beat their weak offense. Seattle has gotten lucky breaks in several of the games they've played; these breaks will tend to even themselves out. While their overall record is impressive, the way they've won most of their games has not been impressive at all. I also think they will lose to either the New York Giants or to Atlanta (or both) on the road. My prediction is they will finish the year either 12-4 or 11-5. That's still an impressive record and still gives the 49ers very little room for mistakes. However, my feeling is that the 49ers end up taking the division.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by kingairta:
I don't buy the mirage either. Seattle nearly lost to a very weak opponent. Their only saving grace was two interceptions and one long pass play that accounted for well over half the total passing yards.

Seattle has more to worry about then we do.

I wouldn't go that far.

They are still 1 game up and have beaten us. We HAVE to win against them in December to get the division. They can lose it and it's still a split. After that they get NO at home while we play them on the road.

Seattle has a better shot at the division from a scheduling perspective.

If the Niners win out tho and Seattle only loses to SF, we still win the division tho based on our Strength of Schedule....unless a few teams records completely flip going forward. Both teams will have lost to the Colts and to each other so the only diff is that the Niners got the Packers and Redkins while they got the Vikings and Giants.


I agree, but I do think Seattle will lose a couple more games. I think NO will beat them at home. The Saints offense can score enough points to beat their weak offense. Seattle has gotten lucky breaks in several of the games they've played; these breaks will tend to even themselves out. While their overall record is impressive, the way they've won most of their games has not been impressive at all. I also think they will lose to either the New York Giants or to Atlanta (or both) on the road. My prediction is they will finish the year either 12-4 or 11-5. That's still an impressive record and still gives the 49ers very little room for mistakes. However, my feeling is that the 49ers end up taking the division.


I REALLY hope you're right, but not that confident.
Thanks Marvin, something has to give with Kyle Williams, I can't see him getting playing time when everybody is healthy. The pass rush is a concern, that problem will be solved when #99 suits up. This team seems very business like in it's approach. Let's see how they do when they play contenders.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by kingairta:
I don't buy the mirage either. Seattle nearly lost to a very weak opponent. Their only saving grace was two interceptions and one long pass play that accounted for well over half the total passing yards.

Seattle has more to worry about then we do.

I wouldn't go that far.

They are still 1 game up and have beaten us. We HAVE to win against them in December to get the division. They can lose it and it's still a split. After that they get NO at home while we play them on the road.

Seattle has a better shot at the division from a scheduling perspective.

If the Niners win out tho and Seattle only loses to SF, we still win the division tho based on our Strength of Schedule....unless a few teams records completely flip going forward. Both teams will have lost to the Colts and to each other so the only diff is that the Niners got the Packers and Redkins while they got the Vikings and Giants.


I agree, but I do think Seattle will lose a couple more games. I think NO will beat them at home. The Saints offense can score enough points to beat their weak offense. Seattle has gotten lucky breaks in several of the games they've played; these breaks will tend to even themselves out. While their overall record is impressive, the way they've won most of their games has not been impressive at all. I also think they will lose to either the New York Giants or to Atlanta (or both) on the road. My prediction is they will finish the year either 12-4 or 11-5. That's still an impressive record and still gives the 49ers very little room for mistakes. However, my feeling is that the 49ers end up taking the division.


I REALLY hope you're right, but not that confident.


O Ye of little faith! I don't know how confident I am that my predictions will come true, but I just don't think Seattle is as good as their record right now and these things have a tendency to even themselves out.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:


As to your point on Kyle, I felt exactly like you, wanting the kid to do well...but he just hasn't. Yet he keeps getting and dropping passes, makes bad decisions, and basically is playing himself right off the team. Marvin, you wouldn't have an explanation for that would you? ie, why he is still playing and either hunter or vance, or Baldwin or LMJ are not getting his chances?

Hunter can't catch punts or take WR snaps away. Vance also isn't a PR and gets his snaps as a TE. Baldwin was sick. LMJ isn't even active.

He is the best option lol. And even when the team get healthy he will be the best #3 receiver option and PR option.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I REALLY hope you're right, but not that confident.


Hope springs eternal...

I'm not confident either, but I think NO are used to a Dome environment and probably have a better chance than most of beating Seattle at home. I also think the Giants might have turned a corner and may be able to beat Seattle. Not so sure on Atlanta though.
Great Post man, I appreciate your big picture thinking...unlike me...I get angry when Kap doesn't throw for 250 yards and 3 tds but I'm learning to accept his awesome ability to see a defense and call a different play.

can't wait for everyone to come back. I'm really looking forward to the Carolina Panthers Game. I dont agree that they are as good as everyone thinks. I live in North Carolina and I watch them every week on TV. Yes, they killed the giants...but, I promise...it was more the Giants collapse than the Panthers Domination. The Old giants and their physical ways would have run all over the panthers. Not discrediting them...just bringing it down to earth. Should be a great game. I believe in the last 5 years...we are 0-2 against them...I was at both of those games...Would be nice to win this one.
Gore, Aldon is so great at sacks because besides being big, strong, the kid is as quick as any big man to play the game. Yes he is fast, but it is his quickness off the ball that makes him so extraordinary. Others that quick are few....DeMarcus Ware, and the greats from time past. But when you look at them, they all are lightning quick. One of the Longs, (I think Jake), has that. But there aren't many.