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TRADE OR NO TRADE

TRADE OR NO TRADE

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Crabtree will not be at full strength or to what he was last year until next year fellas... Complete tear of the AcL... Not a partial tear like suggs.. I think its completely insane to think he will come back and all we need to worry about is chemistry..

Didn't he tear his achilles? I think it takes less time for an achilles tear to rehab than an ACL tear
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Crabtree will not be at full strength or to what he was last year until next year fellas... Complete tear of the AcL... Not a partial tear like suggs.. I think its completely insane to think he will come back and all we need to worry about is chemistry..
if the season ended today, we are a team built for a deep playoff run. crabs and mario at 75 per cent would only make us better. they are our people and they are who ck feels comfortable with. not sure what is so hard to see in that regard. we are not some desperate team in need to a quick fix nor do we need to hire a hired gun to get us over the hump.

I wouldnt say desperate but i dont think kyle is the answer, i dont think anybody does.. But can we take another nfc championship with 2 muffed punts? He looked like crap yesterday... Also he can help at the receiver position? Dont think 75 percent is good enough when you cant make any sharp cuts against good dbacks.. Specifically seachickens dbacks...
the answer to the return game is right there in front of our own eyes,,, combo of dixon and hunter on kicks,, cox on punt returns. if james can give us anything beyond that(if he stays with us) that will just be gravy.
I think we may able to get some production from KW when Crabs and/or MM returns. I think he can produce as the 3rd WR...he's capable of getting behind safeties whenever he's been in that role before (NFCC game Smith overthrew him, against bears last year, this year against GB week 1). Defenses will have to focus on our other weapons and that might make him relevant again.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by kem99:
Lol...Exactly when did Josh Gordon become the next Jerry Rice/Calvin Johnson? I know the 49er WR2 has been terrible this year, but, Gordon is not the savior, once in a generation talent, he's being made out to be.

First, yes, the 49ers will have opportunities to draft a WR with his talent. Gordon, after all, was a 2nd round pick in the Supplemental Draft.

Second, yes, it would adversely affect the 49ers draft if it cost a 2nd round pick or a 2nd and something else since both 2nds are going to be in the lower half of the draft. Not affecting their draft would be a 6th or 7th round pick. And, it certainly would affect the draft if the 49ers gave up a 2nd round pick, Gordon failed to make a difference because he joined the team late and then ended up violating the league substance abuse policy again and is out for a year.

Third, when was the last time a WR was traded at or near the trade deadline that ended up having a significant impact for a playoff team? RB is considered an easier position to integrate into an offense and Trent Richardson is still struggling to get going with the Colts weeks after they acquired him and is sharing time with Donald Brown even after A. Bradshaw got hurt. What would make you think Gordon could just come in, pick up the system, develop a rapport with Kaep, etc. on the fly and be a true impact player for the balance of the season while the 49ers are also integrating Manningham and Crabtree as well? Granted, it wouldn't take much to be better that Williams/Baldwin/Moore but that doesn't mean Gordon would be a true difference maker.
you must have missed todays memo. gordon is our only hope to come in here and save us from these dark desperate hours we find ourselves in
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
I think we may able to get some production from KW when Crabs and/or MM returns. I think he can produce as the 3rd WR...he's capable of getting behind safeties whenever he's been in that role before (NFCC game Smith overthrew him, against bears last year, this year against GB week 1). Defenses will have to focus on our other weapons and that might make him relevant again.
i will give you credit,, you are the first person since the game ended yesterday to come in here and give a case for williams to stay on board
I think he can catch a punt unlike kyle which cost us in the nfc chapionship game.... All he had to do was catch the freaking ball... Doesnt take to much scheming there.
  • buck
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Originally posted by Jikkle49:
I would say the second rounder is worth the risk considering we already have one of the better rosters in the NFL and offhand I think we're looking at have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

I just think at times you have to make some smart gambles on players if the potential payoff is worth it and Gordon would be a smart gamble on Baalke's part.

Smart gambles require information, and who knows what information the team has been able to collect on Gordon's intangibles.

The problem with Gordon is not his football skill set. It is his decision making ability.

Gordon has a long history of making stupid decisions. He clearly made some bad choices in this first year in the league.

Is there any evidence that he has left the behavior and attitudes that produced that history behind him?

I do not have a clue and I doubt that many of us do.

Less than 24 hours. We will see.
Originally posted by cciowa:
we do not have to score 30 on seattle, 16-13 would be just fine just as long as we continue to be physical and not f**k with something that works. again you are focused to much on seattle,, lots of things change between now and then, if we lose games now, then seattle means nothing. i really do scoff at those who all of a sudden think gordon is going to be our savior and if we do not get him, we need to hide under the bed. come on. we do not NEED anyone in my opinion


How is it possible that we don't need anyone ? I am just gob-smacked people seem to have a rather short-termed memory. We had Crab, Mario and Vernon when we played Seattle last year and yet we got smoked. This year we played Anquan against them and he was completely shut down. Even our beloved GM Trent Baalke admits we need a burner so that it can provide a legit deep threat to make big plays downfield which was why he went out to draft AJ Jenkins, needless to say he picked the wrong guy for the job.

I don't quite understand about fxxking with "something that works", in short NOTHING has worked ever since Russell Wilson took over under center plus with their team maturing. If you think we can beat Seattle by running Frank up their gut against that D-line and with them stuffing 8 in the box without having enough deep threats to draw coverage from their run D, then I don't know what to say.
[ Edited by Rascal on Oct 28, 2013 at 10:55 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
I would say the second rounder is worth the risk considering we already have one of the better rosters in the NFL and offhand I think we're looking at have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

I just think at times you have to make some smart gambles on players if the potential payoff is worth it and Gordon would be a smart gamble on Baalke's part.

Smart gambles require information, and who knows what information the team has been able to collect on Gordon's intangibles.

The problem with Gordon is not his football skill set. It is his decision making ability.

Gordon has a long history of making stupid decisions. He clearly made some bad choices in this first year in the league.

Is there any evidence that he has left the behavior and attitudes that produced that history behind him?

I do not have a clue and I doubt that many of us do.

Less than 24 hours. We will see.
god, i wish we had a little clock in the upper right hand corner of the screen to count down the time remaining till the trade deadline. i can not wait for this trade blather to go away
Originally posted by kem99:
Lol...Exactly when did Josh Gordon become the next Jerry Rice/Calvin Johnson? I know the 49er WR2 has been terrible this year, but, Gordon is not the savior, once in a generation talent, he's being made out to be.

First, yes, the 49ers will have opportunities to draft a WR with his talent. Gordon, after all, was a 2nd round pick in the Supplemental Draft.

Second, yes, it would adversely affect the 49ers draft if it cost a 2nd round pick or a 2nd and something else since both 2nds are going to be in the lower half of the draft. Not affecting their draft would be a 6th or 7th round pick. And, it certainly would affect the draft if the 49ers gave up a 2nd round pick, Gordon failed to make a difference because he joined the team late and then ended up violating the league substance abuse policy again and is out for a year.

Third, when was the last time a WR was traded at or near the trade deadline that ended up having a significant impact for a playoff team? RB is considered an easier position to integrate into an offense and Trent Richardson is still struggling to get going with the Colts weeks after they acquired him and is sharing time with Donald Brown even after A. Bradshaw got hurt. What would make you think Gordon could just come in, pick up the system, develop a rapport with Kaep, etc. on the fly and be a true impact player for the balance of the season while the 49ers are also integrating Manningham and Crabtree as well? Granted, it wouldn't take much to be better that Williams/Baldwin/Moore but that doesn't mean Gordon would be a true difference maker.

To address you first point trading away a 2nd round pick isn't exactly giving up a king's ransom for a guy. I think most people in the trade for Gordon camp would at most trade a 2nd and a player or lower round pick for him.

Secondly he was only a 2nd round supplemental pick because of his baggage. He's not once in a generation kind of talent but he does have top tier talent for the position and would likely be a top 10 pick if he was clean. Recievers with top tier talent only slide if they have baggage like Moss and Dez and they really slide that far so the only way we get a guy with that talent is taking a guy with baggage or we draft in the top 10.

And lastly while we might not get full impact from this move this season he is still under contract until 2016 so it could have a huge payoff in 2014 and beyond.

Next season we're looking Crabtree, Baldwin, and Patton under contract so if it comes down using a 1st or 2nd round pick on drafting a WR or trading a 2nd rounder for Gordon I would much rather take my chances on trading for Gordon especially considering our recent track record when it comes to drafting the position.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by cciowa:
we do not have to score 30 on seattle, 16-13 would be just fine just as long as we continue to be physical and not f**k with something that works. again you are focused to much on seattle,, lots of things change between now and then, if we lose games now, then seattle means nothing. i really do scoff at those who all of a sudden think gordon is going to be our savior and if we do not get him, we need to hide under the bed. come on. we do not NEED anyone in my opinion


How is it possible that we don't need anyone ? I am just gob-smacked people seem to have a rather short-termed memory. We had Crab, Mario and Vernon when we played Seattle last year and yet we got smoked. This year we played Anquan against them and he was completely shut down. Even our beloved GM Trent Baalke admits we need a burner so that it can provide a legit deep threat to make big plays downfield which was why he went out to draft AJ Jenkins, neddless to say he picked the wrong guy for the job.

I don't quite understand about fxxking with "something that works", in short NOTHING has worked ever since Russell Wilson took over under center plus with their team maturing. If you think we can beat Seattle by running Frank up their gut against that D-line and with them stuffing 8 in the box without having enough deep threats to draw coverage from their run D, then I don't know what to say.
i say you are to fixated on seattle. you do realize if we follow your theory and make all these changes and fix something that is not broken,, we probably will lose some games (see the colts when we got away from our game) leading up to seattle which will then make the importance of that game moot. no you just keep doing what has been working, filter in guys who have been hurt on both sides of the ball, take care of stuff for the next two months and then deal with seattle. trading a valuable first or second round pick for some guy who is becoming vastly over valued by the web zone as our savior, is laughable in my opinion
Im at work right now but can someone give me the production or stats of our active receivers through week 8 other than boldin? If you look at those stats and think we dont have a problem then something is wrong.. Dont think he will be our savior but i sure do think he can help alot??
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Im at work right now but can someone give me the production or stats of our active receivers through week 8 other than boldin? If you look at those stats and think we dont have a problem then something is wrong.. Dont think he will be our savior but i sure do think he can help alot??
and we have managed to win five in a row anyway.. for the millionth time, you got two guys coming back and even at lets say 75 80 per cent, they will make us better in a month or two months than we are now,, and the way we are right now is not exactly tragic
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
Originally posted by kem99:
Lol...Exactly when did Josh Gordon become the next Jerry Rice/Calvin Johnson? I know the 49er WR2 has been terrible this year, but, Gordon is not the savior, once in a generation talent, he's being made out to be.

First, yes, the 49ers will have opportunities to draft a WR with his talent. Gordon, after all, was a 2nd round pick in the Supplemental Draft.

Second, yes, it would adversely affect the 49ers draft if it cost a 2nd round pick or a 2nd and something else since both 2nds are going to be in the lower half of the draft. Not affecting their draft would be a 6th or 7th round pick. And, it certainly would affect the draft if the 49ers gave up a 2nd round pick, Gordon failed to make a difference because he joined the team late and then ended up violating the league substance abuse policy again and is out for a year.

Third, when was the last time a WR was traded at or near the trade deadline that ended up having a significant impact for a playoff team? RB is considered an easier position to integrate into an offense and Trent Richardson is still struggling to get going with the Colts weeks after they acquired him and is sharing time with Donald Brown even after A. Bradshaw got hurt. What would make you think Gordon could just come in, pick up the system, develop a rapport with Kaep, etc. on the fly and be a true impact player for the balance of the season while the 49ers are also integrating Manningham and Crabtree as well? Granted, it wouldn't take much to be better that Williams/Baldwin/Moore but that doesn't mean Gordon would be a true difference maker.

To address you first point trading away a 2nd round pick isn't exactly giving up a king's ransom for a guy. I think most people in the trade for Gordon camp would at most trade a 2nd and a player or lower round pick for him.

Secondly he was only a 2nd round supplemental pick because of his baggage. He's not once in a generation kind of talent but he does have top tier talent for the position and would likely be a top 10 pick if he was clean. Recievers with top tier talent only slide if they have baggage like Moss and Dez and they really slide that far so the only way we get a guy with that talent is taking a guy with baggage or we draft in the top 10.

And lastly while we might not get full impact from this move this season he is still under contract until 2016 so it could have a huge payoff in 2014 and beyond.

Next season we're looking Crabtree, Baldwin, and Patton under contract so if it comes down using a 1st or 2nd round pick on drafting a WR or trading a 2nd rounder for Gordon I would much rather take my chances on trading for Gordon especially considering our recent track record when it comes to drafting the position.

I agree with the last poster. It is worth it. Were taking a huge risk on Crabs and Ham coming off some pretty serious injuries. Not sure if anyone realizes how serious these injuries are and bouncing back to 100% week 11 is a lot to ask for. I say trade!
Originally posted by cciowa:
and we have managed to win five in a row anyway.. for the millionth time, you got two guys coming back and even at lets say 75 80 per cent, they will make us better in a month or two months than we are now,, and the way we are right now is not exactly tragic

K what about kyle then?