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2013 - Week 7: Thoughts after rewatching the game.

Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SaksV:
The Niners literally have only ONE WR that can separate from coverage and that's Boldin. VD gets his touches by moving him all over the formation, plus he's a mismatch nightmare. Kyle Williams sucks, Jon Baldwin has done jack all, Osgood is a special teamer, Marlon Moore isn't even good enough to be activated on gameday.... Seriously, if you were Greg Roman and were faced with a passing situation, what would you do? Flood the formation with a 4 WR look consisting of ONE guy that will get open? OR give your QB a few more options by releasing the fullback and runningbacks out to catch due to the fact they don't need to beat the press (which is the number 1 problem for our WR corps)? When we get guys that can actually play some goddamn Wide Receiver (Rio and Crab), you'll see us spread it out a bit more like we did vs. Chicago last year, like we did vs. the Bills last year, like we did vs. the Saints last year......

I strongly disagree.

The problem is; Harbaugh/Roman's SCHEME does not ATTEMPT to get more than one WR free at a time. In fact, much of the time, Boldin is the only WR on the field. When there is another WR, or two, their JOB is to just draw cover so Boldin can get open, or be in position to block for him, or Davis, when they catch the ball.

Kyle Williams had no problem getting open for the "noodle-arm game manager" last season. While playing BEHIND Crabtree, Manningham and Moss, he caught 14 passes for an average of 15.2 yds/catch. A receiver that averages over 15 yards/catch obviously can get open fairly well.

Last season, Jon Baldwin playing in KC with some of the worst quarterbacking in recent NFL history, caught 20 passes for over 16 yds/catch. Again, Baldwin was even better with worse QB play than Williams.

So here we have a team with supposedly excellent QB play and a coaching staff that is reputed (by some) to be offensive geniuses, yet claim to be hard up for quality receivers, have two guys on the team that performed much better LAST SEASON with lesser quality QB play.

Don't take it personally but I don't see how anyone can honestly claim the 49ers do not have adequate WRs on the team. Most writers don't watch anything other than the ball most of the time so they have no idea how poorly Williams and Baldwin have been utilized. Hence this myth that because Crabtree and Manningham are injured, we have NO WRs of any value.

Once again, we see how Harbaugh's PREFERENCE for a power running game and a VERY limited passing game results in a misperception of the quality of receivers on the team. Williams and Baldwin COULD contribute but they are deliberately not being planned into the scheme.

Just to confirm, I rewatched through the 3Q (good enough sample size). Last week, we had 21 passes in the 1st half and 100% of those passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds.

This week, through the 3Q, 13 of the 17 (76%) passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds. It might be higher as 2 of the 4 second-read passes may have been "look offs" but I counted them b/c they didn't appear to go to the annointed receiver.

To reiterate, all passes are under 3 seconds. Of note, we are 1 of only 2 teams that average less than 200 yards passing a game (ranked 31st) and that includes the Green Bay game where CK passed for 412 yards. This isn't a criticism but just pointing this out.

Additional Observations:
I could not believe how much more CK took snaps from under Center. In fact, through 3Q, I counted 30 snaps! Now, he only passed out of this formation a handful of times (need to be careful with this going forward). Also, there was one notable check at the LOS. CK "clearly" checked out of a running play (killed it) where he was originally under Center to a passing play where he passed from shotgun. It worked! So perhaps, this trend of starting him under Center more is a new wrinkle by which we'll build off of (pass out of more) and get him more familiar with checks at the LOS (and changing the plays). Running formations and him under Center more still made it very easy for me to see if it was a run or pass. I also noticed that both Gore and Miller flared out more in the passing game and "appeared" to be outlets for CK. Finally, if you rewatch the game, I highly recommend just honing in on Bruce Miller...where he goes, the ball goes. Roman needs to be very careful with this as well. Good teams with better personnel are going to stifle these trends. Also, the trend of Boldin/VD-only remains...another 9 catches between the two and 4 more collectively for everyone else. Again, if you're not Gore, VD or Boldin, you might as well not even suit up (although we need you for the decoy/blocking game).
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 21, 2013 at 3:11 PM ]
Imo Kaps comfort with vance is improving, the next thing on there list to work on is there timing between each other. The goal line catch was not an easy catch by any means off balance, maintaining posession as the ball hit the ground i think the ball was tipped, i think that was evident with kap going back to him on the overthrow which normally would have been a pass to vernon. iirc the main concern with vance in the draft was blocking, and so far its been looking like the goal with him has been fine tuning his blocking skills before expanding him out into the game plan for passing routes more often, now with baldwin im still confused why his involvment has been minimal.
I thought they played great.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Imo Kaps comfort with vance is improving, the next thing on there list to work on is there timing between each other. The goal line catch was not an easy catch by any means off balance, maintaining posession as the ball hit the ground i think the ball was tipped, i think that was evident with kap going back to him on the overthrow which normally would have been a pass to vernon. iirc the main concern with vance in the draft was blocking, and so far its been looking like the goal with him has been fine tuning his blocking skills before expanding him out into the game plan for passing routes more often, now with baldwin im still confused why his involvment has been minimal.

It probably has nothing to do with CK in general but more what HaRoMan feel comfortable with scheming into the passing plays. That said, last game, they clearly schemed a deeper VD-like route for McDonald and he was open but CK threw too far. Also, 1 of the 4 second-read plays was our standard sprint QB-right to Miller in the flat but the Titans were ready for this one after scouting the Cards game, took it away and CK ended up going to McDonald instead last second (on the tipped ball). This was ballsy b/c CK was JUST picked off on this exact play last week when he didn't hit his annointed receiver right away, hesitated and threw late. So regarding trust with McDonald, yes, on these broken plays, that was encouraging to see!
Originally posted by NCommand:
It probably has nothing to do with CK in general but more what HaRoMan feel comfortable with scheming into the passing plays. That said, last game, they clearly schemed a deeper VD-like route for McDonald and he was open but CK threw too far. Also, 1 of the 4 second-read plays was our standard sprint QB-right to Miller in the flat but the Titans were ready for this one after scouting the Cards game, took it away and CK ended up going to McDonald instead last second (on the tipped ball). This was ballsy b/c CK was JUST picked off on this exact play last week when he didn't hit his annointed receiver right away, hesitated and threw late. So regarding trust with McDonald, yes, on these broken plays, that was encouraging to see!

Personally i think its a little bit of both scheming and kaps chemistry with vance, and probably roman and harbs comfort with vance receiving. I wouldnt be surprised to see him traveling downfield more often though on routes for him to get the ball from here on out. Hes showed he can get open, catch passes, and hes a tough sob to stop with a full head of steam.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It probably has nothing to do with CK in general but more what HaRoMan feel comfortable with scheming into the passing plays. That said, last game, they clearly schemed a deeper VD-like route for McDonald and he was open but CK threw too far. Also, 1 of the 4 second-read plays was our standard sprint QB-right to Miller in the flat but the Titans were ready for this one after scouting the Cards game, took it away and CK ended up going to McDonald instead last second (on the tipped ball). This was ballsy b/c CK was JUST picked off on this exact play last week when he didn't hit his annointed receiver right away, hesitated and threw late. So regarding trust with McDonald, yes, on these broken plays, that was encouraging to see!

Personally i think its a little bit of both scheming and kaps chemistry with vance, and probably roman and harbs comfort with vance receiving. I wouldnt be surprised to see him traveling downfield more often though on routes for him to get the ball from here on out. Hes showed he can get open, catch passes, and hes a tough sob to stop with a full head of steam.

I absolutely love the guy. With the kind of offense we run, I'd scheme VD/Boldin all day...Baldwin much more too and then tell CK, "If that first read is covered, you look to McDonald in the middle of the field." Like the old WCO TE's, he seems to have that instinct for finding the soft zones and he is a nightmare to tackle once he does make that catch. A quick middle pass is the easiest for a QB to make as well.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It probably has nothing to do with CK in general but more what HaRoMan feel comfortable with scheming into the passing plays. That said, last game, they clearly schemed a deeper VD-like route for McDonald and he was open but CK threw too far. Also, 1 of the 4 second-read plays was our standard sprint QB-right to Miller in the flat but the Titans were ready for this one after scouting the Cards game, took it away and CK ended up going to McDonald instead last second (on the tipped ball). This was ballsy b/c CK was JUST picked off on this exact play last week when he didn't hit his annointed receiver right away, hesitated and threw late. So regarding trust with McDonald, yes, on these broken plays, that was encouraging to see!

Personally i think its a little bit of both scheming and kaps chemistry with vance, and probably roman and harbs comfort with vance receiving. I wouldnt be surprised to see him traveling downfield more often though on routes for him to get the ball from here on out. Hes showed he can get open, catch passes, and hes a tough sob to stop with a full head of steam.

I absolutely love the guy. With the kind of offense we run, I'd scheme VD/Boldin all day...Baldwin much more too and then tell CK, "If that first read is covered, you look to McDonald in the middle of the field." Like the old WCO TE's, he seems to have that instinct for finding the soft zones and he is a nightmare to tackle once he does make that catch. A quick middle pass is the easiest for a QB to make as well.

I think/hope that is the plan for vance, but i think harbaugh wanted to get his blocking skills up to par as well. Similar to vernon and delanie when harbs first started coaching here they spent alot more time as blockers then receivers because as te's harbaugh wanted them to be able to do what te's are supposed to do. Honestly the other tes the nfl has put over vernon for the last couple years have pretty much been just bigger bodied receivers i havent really seens any of them with the exception of possibly gonzales play there part as great blockers as well, gonzales does because he comes from that time of football were tes were blockers then receivers not the opposite.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
I think/hope that is the plan for vance, but i think harbaugh wanted to get his blocking skills up to par as well. Similar to vernon and delanie when harbs first started coaching here they spent alot more time as blockers then receivers because as te's harbaugh wanted them to be able to do what te's are supposed to do. Honestly the other tes the nfl has put over vernon for the last couple years have pretty much been just bigger bodied receivers i havent really seens any of them with the exception of possibly gonzales play there part as great blockers as well, gonzales does because he comes from that time of football were tes were blockers then receivers not the opposite.

Hopefully, they will start "rewarding" his hard work more but then again, Manningham and Crabtree may be back soon to sooooo? LOL. Seriously though, love the guy and think he could be CK's best friend when in a jam (and would put CK less at risk). IIRC it was McDonald's blocking (and consistent hands) that were in question. From day 1, I have been very impresses with his blocking (he has some nastiness in him) plus it appears he seals very well...just has that feel for which way to turn a guy. But yeah, when he does make a catch, you can tell he runs pissed off and is looking to blow somebody up...like Dick Sherman.
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 627
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SaksV:
The Niners literally have only ONE WR that can separate from coverage and that's Boldin. VD gets his touches by moving him all over the formation, plus he's a mismatch nightmare. Kyle Williams sucks, Jon Baldwin has done jack all, Osgood is a special teamer, Marlon Moore isn't even good enough to be activated on gameday.... Seriously, if you were Greg Roman and were faced with a passing situation, what would you do? Flood the formation with a 4 WR look consisting of ONE guy that will get open? OR give your QB a few more options by releasing the fullback and runningbacks out to catch due to the fact they don't need to beat the press (which is the number 1 problem for our WR corps)? When we get guys that can actually play some goddamn Wide Receiver (Rio and Crab), you'll see us spread it out a bit more like we did vs. Chicago last year, like we did vs. the Bills last year, like we did vs. the Saints last year......

I strongly disagree.

The problem is; Harbaugh/Roman's SCHEME does not ATTEMPT to get more than one WR free at a time. In fact, much of the time, Boldin is the only WR on the field. When there is another WR, or two, their JOB is to just draw cover so Boldin can get open, or be in position to block for him, or Davis, when they catch the ball.

Kyle Williams had no problem getting open for the "noodle-arm game manager" last season. While playing BEHIND Crabtree, Manningham and Moss, he caught 14 passes for an average of 15.2 yds/catch. A receiver that averages over 15 yards/catch obviously can get open fairly well.

Last season, Jon Baldwin playing in KC with some of the worst quarterbacking in recent NFL history, caught 20 passes for over 16 yds/catch. Again, Baldwin was even better with worse QB play than Williams.

So here we have a team with supposedly excellent QB play and a coaching staff that is reputed (by some) to be offensive geniuses, yet claim to be hard up for quality receivers, have two guys on the team that performed much better LAST SEASON with lesser quality QB play.

Don't take it personally but I don't see how anyone can honestly claim the 49ers do not have adequate WRs on the team. Most writers don't watch anything other than the ball most of the time so they have no idea how poorly Williams and Baldwin have been utilized. Hence this myth that because Crabtree and Manningham are injured, we have NO WRs of any value.

Once again, we see how Harbaugh's PREFERENCE for a power running game and a VERY limited passing game results in a misperception of the quality of receivers on the team. Williams and Baldwin COULD contribute but they are deliberately not being planned into the scheme.

Just to confirm, I rewatched through the 3Q (good enough sample size). Last week, we had 21 passes in the 1st half and 100% of those passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds.

This week, through the 3Q, 13 of the 17 (76%) passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds. It might be higher as 2 of the 4 second-read passes may have been "look offs" but I counted them b/c they didn't appear to go to the annointed receiver.

To reiterate, all passes are under 3 seconds. Of note, we are 1 of only 2 teams that average less than 200 yards passing a game (ranked 31st) and that includes the Green Bay game where CK passed for 412 yards. This isn't a criticism but just pointing this out.

Additional Observations:
I could not believe how much more CK took snaps from under Center. In fact, through 3Q, I counted 30 snaps! Now, he only passed out of this formation a handful of times (need to be careful with this going forward). Also, there was one notable check at the LOS. CK "clearly" checked out of a running play (killed it) where he was originally under Center to a passing play where he passed from shotgun. It worked! So perhaps, this trend of starting him under Center more is a new wrinkle by which we'll build off of (pass out of more) and get him more familiar with checks at the LOS (and changing the plays). Running formations and him under Center more still made it very easy for me to see if it was a run or pass. I also noticed that both Gore and Miller flared out more in the passing game and "appeared" to be outlets for CK. Finally, if you rewatch the game, I highly recommend just honing in on Bruce Miller...where he goes, the ball goes. Roman needs to be very careful with this as well. Good teams with better personnel are going to stifle these trends. Also, the trend of Boldin/VD-only remains...another 9 catches between the two and 4 more collectively for everyone else. Again, if you're not Gore, VD or Boldin, you might as well not even suit up (although we need you for the decoy/blocking game).

I know we talked about this last week but man you have to think about how great a coach Harbaugh may be. The understanding of how to groom a QB into a successful transition from college may be the key to the future. To be honest would really like to see how Smith would have turned out if Harbaugh was here when he was drafted.

Most teams look for the measurables and say he will work in our system. Harbaugh looks at the measurables and says this is how we construct a system around him to be successful. To me that is a difference maker on a coach that will continue to be successful and one that may get lucky with their QB choice.
I think part of the fun of McDonald/Kaep getting in the zone is that other teams are going to think it has become a crutch because "they can't do much else."

When I saw Kaepernick repeatedly stick on one option and throw it I knew it was by design. He can make several reads.

The coaches knew Tenn had no prayer and they had Kaep/others work on their chemistry.

This thing was a blowout and the only reason there were points late in the game against the 9ers is because everybody just wanted to call it a day.

Yet no, we are not arrogant.

Counting the seconds before the "concerns" start creeping in again from caring sources........
I would rather have seen how JH developed Daniels
Originally posted by dwett:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SaksV:
The Niners literally have only ONE WR that can separate from coverage and that's Boldin. VD gets his touches by moving him all over the formation, plus he's a mismatch nightmare. Kyle Williams sucks, Jon Baldwin has done jack all, Osgood is a special teamer, Marlon Moore isn't even good enough to be activated on gameday.... Seriously, if you were Greg Roman and were faced with a passing situation, what would you do? Flood the formation with a 4 WR look consisting of ONE guy that will get open? OR give your QB a few more options by releasing the fullback and runningbacks out to catch due to the fact they don't need to beat the press (which is the number 1 problem for our WR corps)? When we get guys that can actually play some goddamn Wide Receiver (Rio and Crab), you'll see us spread it out a bit more like we did vs. Chicago last year, like we did vs. the Bills last year, like we did vs. the Saints last year......

I strongly disagree.

The problem is; Harbaugh/Roman's SCHEME does not ATTEMPT to get more than one WR free at a time. In fact, much of the time, Boldin is the only WR on the field. When there is another WR, or two, their JOB is to just draw cover so Boldin can get open, or be in position to block for him, or Davis, when they catch the ball.

Kyle Williams had no problem getting open for the "noodle-arm game manager" last season. While playing BEHIND Crabtree, Manningham and Moss, he caught 14 passes for an average of 15.2 yds/catch. A receiver that averages over 15 yards/catch obviously can get open fairly well.

Last season, Jon Baldwin playing in KC with some of the worst quarterbacking in recent NFL history, caught 20 passes for over 16 yds/catch. Again, Baldwin was even better with worse QB play than Williams.

So here we have a team with supposedly excellent QB play and a coaching staff that is reputed (by some) to be offensive geniuses, yet claim to be hard up for quality receivers, have two guys on the team that performed much better LAST SEASON with lesser quality QB play.

Don't take it personally but I don't see how anyone can honestly claim the 49ers do not have adequate WRs on the team. Most writers don't watch anything other than the ball most of the time so they have no idea how poorly Williams and Baldwin have been utilized. Hence this myth that because Crabtree and Manningham are injured, we have NO WRs of any value.

Once again, we see how Harbaugh's PREFERENCE for a power running game and a VERY limited passing game results in a misperception of the quality of receivers on the team. Williams and Baldwin COULD contribute but they are deliberately not being planned into the scheme.

Just to confirm, I rewatched through the 3Q (good enough sample size). Last week, we had 21 passes in the 1st half and 100% of those passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds.

This week, through the 3Q, 13 of the 17 (76%) passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds. It might be higher as 2 of the 4 second-read passes may have been "look offs" but I counted them b/c they didn't appear to go to the annointed receiver.

To reiterate, all passes are under 3 seconds. Of note, we are 1 of only 2 teams that average less than 200 yards passing a game (ranked 31st) and that includes the Green Bay game where CK passed for 412 yards. This isn't a criticism but just pointing this out.

Additional Observations:
I could not believe how much more CK took snaps from under Center. In fact, through 3Q, I counted 30 snaps! Now, he only passed out of this formation a handful of times (need to be careful with this going forward). Also, there was one notable check at the LOS. CK "clearly" checked out of a running play (killed it) where he was originally under Center to a passing play where he passed from shotgun. It worked! So perhaps, this trend of starting him under Center more is a new wrinkle by which we'll build off of (pass out of more) and get him more familiar with checks at the LOS (and changing the plays). Running formations and him under Center more still made it very easy for me to see if it was a run or pass. I also noticed that both Gore and Miller flared out more in the passing game and "appeared" to be outlets for CK. Finally, if you rewatch the game, I highly recommend just honing in on Bruce Miller...where he goes, the ball goes. Roman needs to be very careful with this as well. Good teams with better personnel are going to stifle these trends. Also, the trend of Boldin/VD-only remains...another 9 catches between the two and 4 more collectively for everyone else. Again, if you're not Gore, VD or Boldin, you might as well not even suit up (although we need you for the decoy/blocking game).

I know we talked about this last week but man you have to think about how great a coach Harbaugh may be. The understanding of how to groom a QB into a successful transition from college may be the key to the future. To be honest would really like to see how Smith would have turned out if Harbaugh was here when he was drafted.

Most teams look for the measurables and say he will work in our system. Harbaugh looks at the measurables and says this is how we construct a system around him to be successful. To me that is a difference maker on a coach that will continue to be successful and one that may get lucky with their QB choice.

I certainly have an open mind to that...Seattle did the same with Wilson...started out slow and as he gained more and more experience, the playbook opened up. I also remember that technically, we're year 1 of what may be several years of installation.

BUT, if we are scheming passing plays as the first wave of installation, we're still seeing tons of issues esp. with personnel and common and consistent themes whether it's Alex or CK at the helm, they are the same. And we're seeing DC's and players catching up. We'll have to keep countering and hopefully, stay ahead of the game. I don't know where CK himself fits in all of this or it's just his job to be the good soldier.
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 627
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dwett:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SaksV:
The Niners literally have only ONE WR that can separate from coverage and that's Boldin. VD gets his touches by moving him all over the formation, plus he's a mismatch nightmare. Kyle Williams sucks, Jon Baldwin has done jack all, Osgood is a special teamer, Marlon Moore isn't even good enough to be activated on gameday.... Seriously, if you were Greg Roman and were faced with a passing situation, what would you do? Flood the formation with a 4 WR look consisting of ONE guy that will get open? OR give your QB a few more options by releasing the fullback and runningbacks out to catch due to the fact they don't need to beat the press (which is the number 1 problem for our WR corps)? When we get guys that can actually play some goddamn Wide Receiver (Rio and Crab), you'll see us spread it out a bit more like we did vs. Chicago last year, like we did vs. the Bills last year, like we did vs. the Saints last year......

I strongly disagree.

The problem is; Harbaugh/Roman's SCHEME does not ATTEMPT to get more than one WR free at a time. In fact, much of the time, Boldin is the only WR on the field. When there is another WR, or two, their JOB is to just draw cover so Boldin can get open, or be in position to block for him, or Davis, when they catch the ball.

Kyle Williams had no problem getting open for the "noodle-arm game manager" last season. While playing BEHIND Crabtree, Manningham and Moss, he caught 14 passes for an average of 15.2 yds/catch. A receiver that averages over 15 yards/catch obviously can get open fairly well.

Last season, Jon Baldwin playing in KC with some of the worst quarterbacking in recent NFL history, caught 20 passes for over 16 yds/catch. Again, Baldwin was even better with worse QB play than Williams.

So here we have a team with supposedly excellent QB play and a coaching staff that is reputed (by some) to be offensive geniuses, yet claim to be hard up for quality receivers, have two guys on the team that performed much better LAST SEASON with lesser quality QB play.

Don't take it personally but I don't see how anyone can honestly claim the 49ers do not have adequate WRs on the team. Most writers don't watch anything other than the ball most of the time so they have no idea how poorly Williams and Baldwin have been utilized. Hence this myth that because Crabtree and Manningham are injured, we have NO WRs of any value.

Once again, we see how Harbaugh's PREFERENCE for a power running game and a VERY limited passing game results in a misperception of the quality of receivers on the team. Williams and Baldwin COULD contribute but they are deliberately not being planned into the scheme.

Just to confirm, I rewatched through the 3Q (good enough sample size). Last week, we had 21 passes in the 1st half and 100% of those passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds.

This week, through the 3Q, 13 of the 17 (76%) passes were pre-determined, one-read passes under 3 seconds. It might be higher as 2 of the 4 second-read passes may have been "look offs" but I counted them b/c they didn't appear to go to the annointed receiver.

To reiterate, all passes are under 3 seconds. Of note, we are 1 of only 2 teams that average less than 200 yards passing a game (ranked 31st) and that includes the Green Bay game where CK passed for 412 yards. This isn't a criticism but just pointing this out.

Additional Observations:
I could not believe how much more CK took snaps from under Center. In fact, through 3Q, I counted 30 snaps! Now, he only passed out of this formation a handful of times (need to be careful with this going forward). Also, there was one notable check at the LOS. CK "clearly" checked out of a running play (killed it) where he was originally under Center to a passing play where he passed from shotgun. It worked! So perhaps, this trend of starting him under Center more is a new wrinkle by which we'll build off of (pass out of more) and get him more familiar with checks at the LOS (and changing the plays). Running formations and him under Center more still made it very easy for me to see if it was a run or pass. I also noticed that both Gore and Miller flared out more in the passing game and "appeared" to be outlets for CK. Finally, if you rewatch the game, I highly recommend just honing in on Bruce Miller...where he goes, the ball goes. Roman needs to be very careful with this as well. Good teams with better personnel are going to stifle these trends. Also, the trend of Boldin/VD-only remains...another 9 catches between the two and 4 more collectively for everyone else. Again, if you're not Gore, VD or Boldin, you might as well not even suit up (although we need you for the decoy/blocking game).

I know we talked about this last week but man you have to think about how great a coach Harbaugh may be. The understanding of how to groom a QB into a successful transition from college may be the key to the future. To be honest would really like to see how Smith would have turned out if Harbaugh was here when he was drafted.

Most teams look for the measurables and say he will work in our system. Harbaugh looks at the measurables and says this is how we construct a system around him to be successful. To me that is a difference maker on a coach that will continue to be successful and one that may get lucky with their QB choice.

I certainly have an open mind to that...Seattle did the same with Wilson...started out slow and as he gained more and more experience, the playbook opened up. I also remember that technically, we're year 1 of what may be several years of installation.

BUT, if we are scheming passing plays as the first wave of installation, we're still seeing tons of issues esp. with personnel and common and consistent themes whether it's Alex or CK at the helm, they are the same. And we're seeing DC's and players catching up. We'll have to keep countering and hopefully, stay ahead of the game. I don't know where CK himself fits in all of this or it's just his job to be the good soldier.
Oh I agree. To be honest I may be over hyping Harbaugh but his tactics so far seem to be on par to what Walsh would have done in this era. So I feel he will stay ahead of the game. Now CK must be on board the way Montana and Young were. If he just wants his stats and commercials then we will be in trouble. Now I feel he is grounded enough to realize great success will bring these accolades.

So I am willing to bet on Harbaugh and him finding great success together. Now the salary cap issues may throw a wrench into the plans. If we start paying CK 20 mil a year the rest of the team will suffer and I am not confident we will recover. I said CK is grounded enough but the idea of getting paid like the top QBs may be our downfall.
49ers are just fine.

Cant pay our quarterback.
Willis is an old man.
Gore is an old man
Kaepernick can't read more than one receiver.
If only BJ Daniels was allowed to start.
We need Ricardo Lockette back.
Horrible offensive play calling.

On and on and on.

No wonder the 49ers are 0-6.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SaksV:
The Niners literally have only ONE WR that can separate from coverage and that's Boldin. VD gets his touches by moving him all over the formation, plus he's a mismatch nightmare. Kyle Williams sucks, Jon Baldwin has done jack all, Osgood is a special teamer, Marlon Moore isn't even good enough to be activated on gameday.... Seriously, if you were Greg Roman and were faced with a passing situation, what would you do? Flood the formation with a 4 WR look consisting of ONE guy that will get open? OR give your QB a few more options by releasing the fullback and runningbacks out to catch due to the fact they don't need to beat the press (which is the number 1 problem for our WR corps)? When we get guys that can actually play some goddamn Wide Receiver (Rio and Crab), you'll see us spread it out a bit more like we did vs. Chicago last year, like we did vs. the Bills last year, like we did vs. the Saints last year......

I strongly disagree.

The problem is; Harbaugh/Roman's SCHEME does not ATTEMPT to get more than one WR free at a time. In fact, much of the time, Boldin is the only WR on the field. When there is another WR, or two, their JOB is to just draw cover so Boldin can get open, or be in position to block for him, or Davis, when they catch the ball.

Kyle Williams had no problem getting open for the "noodle-arm game manager" last season. While playing BEHIND Crabtree, Manningham and Moss, he caught 14 passes for an average of 15.2 yds/catch. A receiver that averages over 15 yards/catch obviously can get open fairly well.

Last season, Jon Baldwin playing in KC with some of the worst quarterbacking in recent NFL history, caught 20 passes for over 16 yds/catch. Again, Baldwin was even better with worse QB play than Williams.

So here we have a team with supposedly excellent QB play and a coaching staff that is reputed (by some) to be offensive geniuses, yet claim to be hard up for quality receivers, have two guys on the team that performed much better LAST SEASON with lesser quality QB play.

Don't take it personally but I don't see how anyone can honestly claim the 49ers do not have adequate WRs on the team. Most writers don't watch anything other than the ball most of the time so they have no idea how poorly Williams and Baldwin have been utilized. Hence this myth that because Crabtree and Manningham are injured, we have NO WRs of any value.

Once again, we see how Harbaugh's PREFERENCE for a power running game and a VERY limited passing game results in a misperception of the quality of receivers on the team. Williams and Baldwin COULD contribute but they are deliberately not being planned into the scheme.


I think you are greatly overstating.

I understand what you are saying about the roles of the WRs when they are out there...but there is a REASON they are boing schemed they way they are. Baldwon had 20 receptions...but they were so impressed by him that they traded him for AJ Jenkins.

This is a power running team. It has been since Harbaugh took over. It wanted to be one before that...nevermind...I'm not going to get into before Harbaugh.

Unbalnced lines, extra O-Linemen, 2 or 3 TEs, very few WRs.

It has ALWAYS been this way. Thats the way they ran it at Stanford. It works. All of those lines create on on one situations in the secondary and you need guys who can take advantage of those situations. Boldin can be that guy sometimes. Vernon can be that guy. Crabtree can be that guy.

If you can man up Boldin tho and take him out of the game with one guy, SOMEBODY else needs to be capable of beating coverage. THAT isn't happeneing. Moreover, all offseason it has been drilled into Kaps head that Boldin isn't a separation receiver so you throw to him even when he isn't open. Mission accomplished. He's been doing that. If Boldin is the #1 receiver and he's been told to throw to him even if he's covered...how often are you actually going to get to a second read?

This is why I think Crab is important. It will be clearer if he is or is not open. Its an easier read and will allow Kap to move to a second option.

Yes, there are going to be ALOT of plays where there are only 1 or 2 viable passing options. Thats the nature of the offense. That isn't a mystery when you run jumbo sets as much as the 49ers do.

Well, we saw how well that power running/limited receiver deal worked against the Seahawks.

A good bit of the conversation around here has been about lack of receivers that can get separation. I believe THAT is the part that is greatly over-stated. As I showed, we have some receivers who have PROVEN they can get separation in the past but Harbaugh refuses to use them. There is no other reason.

As to Baldwin; Baalke saw a chance to get a blocker with some receiving skills in exchange for a speed guy who couldn't block. Baldwin is much more than that but will not prove that here. I expect him to leave at the first offer when this season ends. He COULD be a good pass catcher but will not have the chance here.

As to the future of a team that is 90% power running; how many teams have made it to the Super Bowl in the past 8 years as a power running based team?

This is a passing league. That is what the league powers want it to be, and that is what it is. You might get by with a power running game against weaker teams but it is just too limited if you fall behind against a good team.

The 49ers have the potential to be both but that will not happen under Harbaugh. He is Bo Schembechler reincarnated.

You seem to be forgetting the Green Bay game this year, New Orleans, Chicago, Patriots etc last year. Harbaugh runs when he does because it is working. When it doesn't he passes.